Update: Exclusive – Shidduch List with Over 150 Names of Bochurim Creates Firestorm


shidduchim[Important updated note below.] Monday, May 25: A shidduch list released by an individual with the intent to help solve the shidduch crisis has caused somewhat of a crisis on its own. The list, released by a girl in the parsha of shidduchim, contains over 150 names of bochurim over the age of 25 and are in need of shidduchim. The list began making the rounds, when a tumult erupted after it was discovered that the list contained descriptions of the bochurim – based on the girl’s own research or determinations – which were either inaccurate or perceived as unflattering.

The list contains contact info – including a phone number and email address – for the person who compiled it, as well as contact info for each of the boys listed. Phone numbers for a number of shadchanim are also included.

Rabbonim and roshei yeshiva have been informed of the list and are working on addressing the possible damage that could result from it.

A local shadchan told Matzav.com that lists of boys or girls in need of shidduchim is not new, “but such a comprehensive list, with descriptions about personality, family and what one is looking for in a shidduch that is based on misinformed or inaccurate information is clearly damaging.”

Such a list, the shadchan says, “does nothing more than provide opportunities for derogatory descriptions and for certain people’s amusement. The person who compiled it may have had her heart in the right place, but there are ways to do things and ways to address problems and crises, and this is not one of them.”

“The parsha of shidduchim is painful enough for many,” said the shadchan. “There’s no need to make it worse.”

Update, Tuesday, 11:28 a.m.:

It should be noted that false and misleading information has been spread following Matzav.com report on this story.

To set the record straight, the shidduch list that was released is not a BMG list.

It is a list of bochurim that includes names of those enrolled in Touro, Yeshiva University, BMG, Ner Yisroel, Torah Vodaas, working people and others. It was prepared by a private individual and not by anyone associated with Beth medrash Govoha. BMG’s strict policy is to not release any personal information about its bochurim.

{Dovid Bernstein-Matzav.com Newscenter}


  1. I have a friend who is on the list and it says that he has lubavitcher leanings! ridiculous! anotehr one is described as being worldly and coming from a more “modern family”. if it was true, it’s one thing. unbelievable!

  2. i think it is a great idea . esp bmg is filled with alot o f boys who are all depressed from shidduchim etc.. when i walk by the irv i can even cry

  3. it could be done in a more normal way but ‘more modern family’ is obviosly based on the researchers opinion, the same way u ask ppl who u know for info abt ppl u dont know the list should be treated the same way. if u ask rosh yeshiva about x family he might say they are more modern bec he is more right… grain of salt

  4. These bochurim should be given a chance to post their information as they see it on a web-site. In this way they are presenting themselves and everybody else can see it and contact them.

    The stock market also went from broker trading to electronic trading. Let’s open the market.

  5. FUNNY?! HOW IS IT FUNNY? How would you like to have your info written on a list inaccurately? How would you like for it to say that you are looking for a “trrendy ” girl when it is not true? How would you like to be 27 and lookijng for a shidduch only for a list to come out “deciding” exactly who you are, what type of hashkafos you ahev and what type of shidduch you are look for?

  6. Rav Malkiel Kotler and others have been informed of this list. What exactly could be done at this point I don’t quite understand. What is there to do?

  7. This is totally ridiculous. As a mother of older single, I am familiar with lots of the names on the list. All the descriptions are accurate. The specifications listed by each boy are what the boy really wants in a girl. the list was compiled for the girls’ benefits so they can see who is available for them that their qulaities match up to the boys’ needs. The girls are more than tired of chasing boys that are not NOGEIA for them. Finally here is something black and white and you are all screaming! Kudos to the compiler of the list who was concerned for her single friends and was pained by their situation! Everyone else just talks and does nothing to help their friends. Yasher Koach to you!
    Mother of a Single!



    Please. Maybe because you are the mother of an older girl so you just love having names at your disposal. But this was anything but helpful. the info there is a lot of hogwash in certain instances.
    The girl describes one boy as “worldly.” What does she know about worldly and what does she know about the boy that she paskened that he is worldly? Who asked her for her deyos?

    I would go so far as to say that maybe l;halacha putting out such a list is not acceptable. Even if there is nothing there plainly negative, who said that one has a right to pasken on someone whether they are yeshivish, cool, trendy or whatever and then give that info out?

  9. The idea of a shidduch list is essentially a good one. It’s the comments that are wrong, containing lashon hora and motzi shem ra. Descriptions of this sort are so subjective. One person’s “modern” is another’s “farfrumt” and vice versa. It is clearly forbidden to continue circulating the list as is. Delete the descriptions and just leave the names and contact information. Let people do their own checking.

  10. some of the boys are indeed working, but they were all in BMg at some point, that’s is what is meant. what difference does it make though? the point is the list and what it has accomplished or damaged, not whether the guy is mamesh learning in BMg this second or if he left a year ago.

  11. There is one thing the mother of in the parsha touches on, and that is how messed up the system is. Used to be, the boy would be presented with the girl so that by the time the girl was given his name, she knew there was interest.

    Now that the boys have the girls over a barrel, and they are bombarded with names, clearly the girls who have already said yes will be given precedence. This results in mothers of girls being given random, and I do mean random names, by well meaning people who may or may not know enough about the two to know if it is nogeia to begin with. The mothers of the girls are then spendng hours and hours getting info and sending out feelers. Something has to change.

    And yeah, of course the list is problematic.

  12. First, thanks to Matzav for keeping this discussion civil, without it getting off topic or off color.
    The thing that bothers me is that everyone is so eager to see the list, why? So they could see all the gossip that the compiler applied to each name entry. That in itself proves that the list is problematic.
    If it had been just names and phone numbers, people wouldn;t really care. It is the fact that there is some juicy stuff there that is making people go ga ga to try to get hold of it.
    Please, everyone, get a grip.

  13. You guys are all worried about the list – Moitzy Shem ra etx. How about all the guys in the dorm who bash girls? They rate the girls with inaccurate info. They have not even gone out with the girl. It’s info from years ago that is inaccuate that have some girls Blacklisted. That is o.K., I guess and Kosher b/c it is on yeshiva premises.

  14. Dorm Time: It’s funny because of the stupidity of the people who are offended. Chas Vechalila one should be accused of having lubavitch leanings!(Irv, 1st comment) Oy Vavoy one should be accused of coming from a more modern family!

    Some people were even lo aleinu referred to as worldly! How will they recover!? Hashem Yishmor!

    Baruch Hashem the news is not all bad: some of the boys are working, so it’s fine if their information gets out. (Or so In the Parsha says.)

    Everybody relax. Life will go on, and these people will find shidduchim. (Except the ones who are genuinely worldly or are looking for someone trendy, because they don’t deserve it.)

  15. I have the email address of the person who put the list together. I emailed her to send the list but she has not responded.

  16. are the guys posting from the dorm and the irv have internet access? it is against yeshiva policy to bring in a computer, ansd surly to access the web

  17. Chaim, sorry to say but you missed the boat. The point is not whether having Lubavitcher leaning, being wordly, being trendy etc. is a good thing or a bad thing or whatever. The point is that someone has made these determinations either on their own, or based on info from others, or whatever way. If their determinations are even slightly off and yet are being disseminated to the public, that in itself is indeed a problem.
    So to be sarcastic with your “lo aleinus” and your “Hashem yishmors” may be funny and entertaining to read but misses the more serious point here, which is that someone might be misrepresenting the boys.

    Bichlal shidduch information is so inaccurate and skewed and hard to rely on becomes of different points of view etc. etc. and different backgrounds. Thus, where someone blatantly makes egregious misrepresentations (and as someone who has seen the list, I can tell you 100% that in certain cases there are gross misrepresentations) then it is a serious issue and one that deserves to be discussed, which is ostensibly why it has been reported here.
    That’s just my two cents.

  18. Crazy,

    Your posting name is apparently appropriate for you, because if you think that the people who are writing here under the names “Dorm” and “Irv” are really in the BMG dormitories, you gotta come back down to Earth.

  19. This is GREAT!

    A level playing field.

    Doesn’t evry boy have 150 names redt to him, so he can choose the highest bidder.

    Now girls know the “Blue Book Value” of each top boy in Lakewood.

    They should DEFINITELY post the list online.

    The Shidduch CRISIS would be solved overnight.

  20. I am of the opinion that a list with names and Pictures go out. You do not need descriptions. Apicture is worth 1000 words. This way you will avoid all DOA if the guy is fat or has red hair!!

  21. So what’s the big deal? Somebody is circulating information which is based on a personal impression and which may or may not be off the wall. So what’s new?

    This goes on everywhere – big time loshon hara by people who ought to know better. “But it’s mutar because it’s b’tachlis!” Yeah, sure. Does the mother stack the plates on Shabbos? Is a fourth cousin off the derech?

    The list puts it down in black and white, with an identifiable person named as responsible, but the real culprits are all of us who so enjoy passing around the “good stuff” whether we know it to be true or not, or whether it’s based on a piece of gossip or a fleeting glance.

    The shidduch crisis is real, and one of the causes is that everybody’s terrified of the loshon hara (and even motzi shem ra)that goes on.

    The Chofetz Chaim’s rules on loshon hara are great guidelines, but even better is Hillel’s – what you wouldn’t want done to you don’t do to anyone else. Those three short words “I don’t know” – could save us all a lot of grief and a lot of klops on Yom Kippur (assuming that we realize we’ve done anything wrong)

  22. the point is not if the info is accurate or not. speaking as an “older single”, the point, to me, is that it’s demoralizing that we are written up on lists like we are merchandise. yes it’s helpful and everything, but there should be a more discreet way of going about solving this “crisis”.
    (i dont know what it is, i’m just saying my opinion.)

  23. I dont think that anyone that is seriously inquiring about a boy would beleive this list anyway. I would definatly not go by the information on some list that some girl put together about 150 boys.

  24. The person who released the list should’ve asked a sheila first. That being said,why is this any different than the bochurim keeping Bais Yaakov yearbooks in the dorms just so they can see what SHE looks like? There are also plenty of bochurim who tear the girls to shreads in the dorms after dates. “Malkie Plonitstein? I went out with her. She’s very tall, short, skinny, fat, quiet, noisy, etc.” My favorite one is, “She’s not for you.” (How do they know that? Just because she’s not right for Moishy doesn’t mean she’s not right for Chaim.)

  25. I actually think it is a great idea if it is done with the approval of the boys and rabonnim. A book should be printed with all boys coming out of the freezer with their picture and a brief description FROM THE BOY about himself and what he would want in a shidduch.

  26. i think we can learn from this the tremendous tzara that girls are going through. there are surely over a thousand girls over twenty five who want to marry a lakewood boy and even these one fifty will probably marry girls younger than themselves! we must do something to close the age gap or more and more girls will be left single.

  27. Reading the posts for this article has been an eye-opener for me. Some of the flippant remarks make me wonder if the yeshivas are teaching anything at all in the way of derech eretz. Some of the posts are (to an old fogey like me) mildly nauseating in their lack of concern for other people. Certainly the yeshivas are not doing a 100% job teaching menschlichkeit.

    That seems to be a good test for anything – posts or shidduch involvement.

    Just ask yourself: Is this a menschlich thing to do/say? If it isn’t, rein in your yetzer hara. Even if your mashgiach ruchani isn’t listening, HaShem is.

  28. It so happens 2 b that the girls are sure happy about this bec they get 2 hear names of other boys but boys, well the boys are excused for being upset bec who wants 2 b publicized with out permission, by someone you don’t know (especially a girl). The girl who posted had no right 2 do what she did.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. When you print out a book with names and pictures, don’t forget that someone has to make sure the picture is a picture of the right person, and not a picture from his Bar Mitzvah!

  30. we should be encouraging not just older boys to date their age but younger boys to date girls older than they are as well. lo saamod al dam rayecha!

  31. Do top notch shidduchim come from Lakewood only? there are many other places and many other matches made in Shamyim. We seem to be
    forgetting that all matches are made in Shamayim. People don’t know the real value of
    shidduchim anymore. they do shidduchim based on what other people will think of them. The acceptance of this list based on one girls opinion would be pure loshon hora. It is her opinion that is all. names are good to have as most shadchanim call the schools and yeshivas for names they do need the info. Let Hashem help everyone find their real zivug quick and easy. Amen

  32. Thank you Matzav I love being on your site because most of the time you have at least 2 or 3 pieces if not more that no one else has.
    Also most of the time it is Losha Hora Free keep up your great work

  33. This is the best news I have heard in years. What comes around goes around.. Why is it ok for girls to be requested to send their pictures to weird creepy boys, but when the tables are turned you cry foul…

    If I was 25 years younger, I would of DEFINITELY made such a list and posted it on every storefront in BP…

    Hillel saw a skull floating on the river, you guys all know the rest of that mishnah…

  34. K, so I have the list, and everybody go easy on the author. She had only good intentions, and you never know what may come of it. I for one, memorized the list, and she actually has a disclaimer on the bottom which says, “this list was written based off of the descriptions used when I received info about each boy. I recieved more info about some boys than others, but it just means that I did not get sufficient information about some boys. Also, PLEASE DON’T READ THE DESCRIPTIONS TOO LITERALLY, AND FIND OUT YOURSELF.”
    Really the only thing that I looked at when reading the list was his age, if he was divorced or not, and whether he was learning.
    Everyone should take a deep breath and stop the judgementalism. I’m sure nothing terrible will come from this. 🙂

  35. I think that everyone needs to take a step back – yes – kudos to the one who compiled the list – for those of you who ask…what should we do with the list – those of us who are really interested will figure out what to do – we will make the connections – and yes – most of the information on the list is accurate and there is NOTHING wrong with what she has done – she has done a favor for all of us – appreciate it for what it is! you say this is not the way to go about helping in this crisis – yet NO ONE else has come up with a better idea – so until then – stop finding things that are wrong with what has been done!! it’s more than anyone else has done!

  36. Its quite amazing how bitter most girls sound – any information that is is unflattering and sent around is in gross violation of basic morals and Torah law – there is NO justification for that no matter how badly girls are suffering. Many woman who have posted seem to be glowing in the very fact that “boys” get to feel some sort of pain – quite twisted.

    The last poster writes “kudos” as if something great was done – but how can you applause a wrongful act that hurts others – the fact that she “did something” is an empty argument – the immaturity might reflect why you girls are having such a hard time in the first place maybe the boys are opting to date kinder gentler and more humane girls…


    It is not accurate, and even the accurate information is not written in a smart manner. No sensitivity is demonstarted. It appears to be written by a young, 21-year-old girl, which is exactly what it is.

    There are ways to say things and ways to write things. This list does not portray things in the correct light.

    Now, I should make clear that virtually any list would run into the same problem. Virtually any list of boys or girls that endeavors to provide personal info and personal descriptions is likely to encounter similar trouble in properly expressing familial idiosyncrisies and other details.

    AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHY A GOOD SHADCHAN IS NEEDED, A PAPER WILL NOT DO THE JOB in properly describing a boy or girl. It is that much worse when the paper is put together like a G.O. project in a girls school.

    This isn;t camp and it is not a contest to see how many names or how much info can be compiled.

    This sets a dangerous precedent.

    I sincerely hope this is the last time we have to deal with this.

  38. hey “the crazy house”, i may be crazy , but not stupid or naive, i know it exists being from bmg, and having spent some time in the irv. I wouldnt be surprised if u r posting from “the crazy house” on 7th street.

  39. The olam over here who is making this into a boy-girl issue is not chapping the matzav
    it is not a boy-girl issue at all. if it is wrong, it is wrong whether it was a list of boys or a list of girls. to look at this as “payback time” against the boys, as if they did anythign wrong, is so silly and really shallow.

  40. i dont see what this girl did wrong . the shadchanim put thier 2 cents in anyway and mosty lies . boys and girls almost always lie . so whats the big deal . its a world of sheker whichever way you look at it .

  41. having seen the list, as someone who is in BMG but didnt make it to the list i can tell u that the person who wrote it had good intentions.but something of this nature which is based on descriptions that are sketchey and inaccurate,are harmfull.some people will not look into a boy based on this list.or he will be getting redd shiduchim based on the authors ameteur detective its just as bad as when a boy describes a girl based on his date with her which is unfair.i and many of my friends(some who are poorly portrayed on this list)WOULDNT MIND IF THE LIST CONTAINED,NAME AGE YESHIVAH BACKGROUND AND A CONTACT INFO .but not some

  42. but not somebody’s black book being posted to the world .if a guy did this it would also be wrong.peoples opinions have to be kept to themselves.what would be helpful is the basic info.

  43. This list is not about the boys. It’s what is being said about the boys. Which is an important part of Shidduchim related reasearch. Any reader of the list with a half of brain knows that, and it is no different then the verbal descriptions traded amongst the girls. On another note, all those adding comments, and adding to the stink, are simply ensuring that the list will really get around to everyone, just like the banned books of yesteryear. Rumor has it that an identical list of girls is just around the corner.

  44. To be honest, I think the list is inappropriate. Why should the boys/young men be relegated to a list of names and descriptions that could be off? There is the danger of Loshen Hara and also the shidduch process should be handled far more sensitively. There is always Frumster or other such sites for this sort of thing if the people are willing to publish their details publicly.
    I actually think the best shidduchs are made through good frum married friends or a Rav and his rebbitzen who know at least one of the parties very well.It is potentially very harmful to publish people’s personal details or have such a list circulating.
    I know she meant well and shecoch that she should find a more appropriate way to help her single friends, but this path is fraught with danger for both sides.

  45. Sam, I know you’re commenting l’shem shamayim but what we have to do is reemphasize the centrality of the bayis neeman b’Yisrael to the klal. Of course, Torah is central to that, and without Torah in the middle (full time, kvius ittim, etc.) there will be chinks in the armor. But we are not raising our kids that way.(And yes, there are yeshivos for parsha age boys besides Lakewood! Now names of said yeshivos would be a worthwhile list.) And the age based initiatives and such emphases are a prescription that ignores all the other symptoms of this unhealthy condition.

  46. Hi the latest I ehard is that everyone who wanted the list was able to get it.
    The girls all have it and theyr parents do as well.

    All the girls said no to all the boys on the list cause it wasnt exactly what they were looking for, so no harm done! ha ha

  47. HOw about focusing on the REAL problem at hand i.e. the ongoing shidduch tragedy.

    So long as twenty three year old guys date 19 year old girls we will continue to have hundreds and hundreds of girls never getting married and never having families.

    Does anyone care???

    We can beat up on the author list or we can try to solve the problem.

    Choice is yours.

  48. I go by the name JewishMatchmaker and a while ago myself and a few other shadchanim that work on shidduchem on the side tried to open a data base of people in the ‘Parsha’, sent in with their consent, with just basic info (ie; no opinion’s) that others can view and get involved with to try ‘redding’ on their own. The whole idea was short lived as there was way to much backlash (and not to mention polotics, it seems like the few do-gooders that were behind it was a threat to the more established groups). We did manage to compile a very nice and tzniusdige list of boys and girls that is growing but is only available for our shadchanim. We have shadchanim in almost every major jewish community in the east coast. If you would like to send us someone’s info or would like to contact me you at THEJEWISHMATCHMAKER@GMAIL.COM.

    Thank you Matzav. Tziku L’mitzvas

  49. Jewish Matchmaker, the reason that you did not get a good list was because people are too smart to take the risky step of sending personal information to anonymous people! If you will use your real name, and real phone number, people will know that you are legitimate!

  50. First of all, most of the guys on the list are NOT IN BMG, or have never attented BMG (and if they knew they were accused of doing so, would be highly insulted, being that BMG is NOT the begining and end of the world, contrary to what you all think!)
    Second, all of you BMG boys out there should really get over yourselves, Seriously!
    There was nothing damaging on there, nothing half as bad as all the gossiping that goes on in the IRV, for example, guys bashing girls and putting them down for no reason at all.
    Everyone who is outraged by this list, obviously hasn’t EVER felt the pain and suffering that goes along with being an older single, be it a girl or guy. Instead of crying over this silly list, Maybe be a little more sensitive, and You all should get up and do something to help this horrible situation before it gets even worse. It may affect YOU or someone you love one day!!

  51. To AG: I can’t be maskim that this is the problem. Because it’s one thing to say, think outside the box and try such a shidduch for the first times to see if it’s for you, but we can’t mandate MARRIAGES based on this, not without the kochos of a sanhedrin, etc. We want to see the kids create batei neeman, and age is just one factor.

  52. You claim, “So long as twenty three year old guys date 19 year old girls we will continue to have hundreds and hundreds of girls never getting married and never having families.”

    Says who? The drashos provided by Rosenblum, Krohn etc. on this topic don’t make sense to me. For many decades, most shidduchim have been between older boys and younger girls and there was no crisis. All of a sudden this is given as the reason for a “crisis.” I don’t buy it.

    The solution doesn’t make sense either. 19 year olds out of seminary should be marrying mesivta boys?! They should hang around, single, waiting for boys to grow up so they can marry boys younger than them? That’s a solution?!

  53. Guys that are upset w. it, can ask to get their names off a future list. I’m sure many other guys are OK with it.

    It’s about time s/o did something useful!

    How dare anyone criticize if it leads to even one Shidduch, and I’m sure it will!

  54. I am a Bachur in BMG who is/was on ‘the list’. I am seriously exploring taking this woman to a Din Torah. This would be for damages and embarrassment. Anyone who is interested in jioning me can contact me at bmgbachur@gmail.com. The invitation is to both bachurim and families who they that they have been hurt by this list.

  55. tzippi: the issue is the age gap pure and simple. the numbers are there. i dont understand what is so difficult. davening for everyone to get married under this system is davening for a nais and ossur. all of these naarishe frumkeitin do nothing to help the more than 10 percent of girls who under the current system will NEVER GET MARRIED!!!!

  56. The whole shiduch and dating system is so messed up.That a little more havoc doesnt make a difference.Boucherem get real stop being these motcho fakers on dates.Ha ha what she is telling you is that she saw thru it and you guys dont like that hu

  57. being one on the list, first of all thank you for your concern however even though we’ve been on the market for a while we are stil human and would appreciate a little discretion. 2nd of all the descriptions are mosly opinions weather they’re true or false. 3rd of all a guy will always apear differently when compaired to others. 4- i dont even know what i want how do you

  58. Attn Mr/s. 🙂
    You know that guy who just moved down the block, he’s a real selfish idiot who will be mean to you all day long.

    Disclaimer: don’t take what I say literally and do your own research.

  59. The guys w. their lists and fantasiesall types of ideas are keeping themselves in the freezer for years after the real freezer. They dont want to get married!!!!! This is unwanted publicity for them. They go out “Yotzei Tzu Zein”!

    They want everyone to stop forcing them to get married until they find a willing slave who looks like a movie star.

  60. To Samm, et al. I will say this again. It is fine to encourage those in the parsha to think outside the box and date others within the “New Age” guidelines but you can’t mandate who to marry!!!! That, at least to me, is what you’re trying to do. This can’t be done without the united authority of all Torah leaders of the time, unless you want to see absolutely disastrous results in the strength of klal Yisrael in the next dor.

  61. I love the list! While there might be mistakes here and there you always have to check it out anyway!! Its a great idea I hope it continues.

  62. crisis u say! maybe a little bit of watching what we say will help this crisis that it seems to be called into simchas. lashon hara is a more of crisis to watch out for.

  63. Being a girl in the parsha and having checked out and/or met a number of these guys, I can say that the list is rather accurate, perhaps painfully so. No supposedly choshuve yeshiva bochur wants to advertise that he’s looking for a “trendy” girl, for example. Bochurim, catch a glimpse in the mirror and get over it! Thanks for the great list!

  64. I am a girl-woman who went through 11 years of shidduchim.One week I would date a learning guy who wanted to go into Chinuch…..The next month it would be a guy who is an accountant who learns every(other) morning….The next month a Baal Teshuva who wants to move to Israel indefinitely…I tried to see what would click for me. How can people be so one dimensional to put it all into categories like this-ohhh yeah..must be because most people are one dimensional and boring.

  65. thought I was done- hey my kids are all sick and waking me up while my husband is sleeping so peacefully over there ON HIS NICE COMFY BED WHILE I CANNOT FALL BACK ASLEEP……lets see where was I…..yeah shidduchim… did i mention 11 years-i never got over it….they tell you that you get over it-big fat lie- one good thing-I got closer to HASHEM…I never understood how people knew what their destiny was- how do you know that you want only a learning boy?? Well, at least i knew that i could not date a learning boy when i was aged 19- 23. You see, i did not come from money-so that option was out

  66. from 24 and on, the option of learning guy opened since i was making decent MONEY- hooray for money….so basically MONEY= LEARNING BOY See I learned something…lemme stop im opening aold wounds-never a good idea when its close to midnite….ohhh who’s screaming now????????????good nite

  67. I promise when i found out about it i called my two close friends who are over 25 one didnt make the list and the other wasnt offended… otherwise this story would have a sad continuation. . .

  68. To Tzippi:

    Who is mandating anything? I’m just pointing THE problem that is causing the shidduch crisis is the age gap. ANYTHING done to alleviate that is helpful. Everything else is practically a waste of time as the boys by and large will get married (to girls obviously). Yet many many girls continue to get left out simply because of the inequity of numbers.


  70. You mean you have a better way to solve it then making guys feel guilty about going out with girls younger then them? i certainly hope so. cuz im not gonna turn down a younger girl that sounds better and take a personal hit for the greater good . No matter how guilty you try to make me feel.

  71. It’s partly the age, but more the MOOLA. A guy will choose a slightly older wealthy girl over a younger poorer one. It’s a BUYERS market. Whoever has more Moola wins. Age takes a back seat to MOOLA.

  72. The idea of a list of boys, if done in the proper way is a noble one and can lead to shidduchim being made. Such lists have been made in the past – however, those only included initials and did not give subjective thoughts of the people. Circulating a list with people’s names and a girl’s subjective view of what the guy is looking for and what he is like, is wrong and even if true, complete and utter lushon horah and a blatant disregard to halacha (for those jews that actually care about halacha). Those that read it are only furthering this lushon horah which is taking place on a massive scale which can result in many people NOT finding their basherts simply because some people may be turned off by what they read about a particular guy. Misinformation circulates all the time. Girls shmooze about the guys they date which only hurts their friends that listen. It is so unfortunate, especially when dealing with people’s lives and futures. Shidduchim are hard enough as it is – do we we really need to complicate things further by spreading misinformation about people. I spoke with people that have the list and know many people on the list – it is in fact full of inaccuracies!

    Other commentators on this website have noted that such good can be achieved by helping to make shidduchim. The only good I see is some girl finding sweet revenge for being dumped by 150 guys – what does that say about her and her derogatory opinions.

  73. I agree with Yaakov. When people seek shidduch information, one wrong twist of the nose and people are ready to say no and move on. How much more so if they have this handy list which can easily eliminate tons of guys based on the written word, which will be accepted like doctrine and scrutinized like a word in Tosfos.
    Of course its more complicated and no one reason is THE reason why some girls have a hard time finding a shidduch. (By the way – this list proves that guys don’t have it so easy either – these guys are over 25 and would love to have been married by 22 or 23). But I believe a huge contributing factor to the “shidduch crisis” is girls and parents not acting smart from the get go. Young girls think they are all that and turn down good guys left and right. The result is that noone is good enough and the days, months and years pass – suddenly the 19 year olds are no longer 19 and they wake up and ask, “wow, what happened?” Had they actually given the guys a chance instead of being so stuck up, maybe just maybe they would have found someone right away. But of course its the boys fault.

  74. As an “older girl,” I’ve been redt or have dated many of the guys on the list. I do agree that MUCH of the information is inaccurate (for example: it says one guy is 5’7″ and he’s at least 5’10”, if not 5’11”; another guy who is working already is listed as being a short-term learner), however I think 1. the idea has potential 2. this should make all of us take a good hard look at the way shidduchim is dealt with today and maybe learn a thing or two.

    For years, I’ve been fighting the system that asks me to send “resumes” with descriptions of myself to shadchanim, that has papers about me floating around in people’s houses, that asks me to send pictures “only for the shadchan” (and I look good, that has nothing to do with it), and when I resist it, I’m told it’s a man’s world and I have no choice. And yet, I’ve made a choice. I won’t allow myself to be degraded…and I’m still single.

    This isn’t color war, and the guys and girls are on opposing teams. I feel bad for the guys who were portrayed inaccurately. But sensitivity has to go both ways and applies to everyone, even if the person under discussion is 29 and single.

    Note to BMG Bachur: Isn’t that taking things a bit far? I’m sorry you were hurt, but man up.

  75. To Yoss:

    “By the way – this list proves that guys don’t have it so easy either – these guys are over 25 and would love to have been married by 22 or 23)”

    Here are some hard numbers for you

    Presently in BMG

    Boys ages 26 (19 of them)
    Boys ages 27 (11) of them)
    Boys ages 28 (11 of them)

    In other words form the 2000+ boys that came to BMG 5-7 years ago their are only 41 still umarried. That is less than 2%

    As for the girls ages 24-27 who started dating 5-7 years ago there are ????? unmarried?

    This isn’t a crisis, this is a CATASTROPHE which is a direct result of the age gap that creates unequal numbers in the dating pool.

    Money, Looks, Yichus, etc. PERHAPS help determine which girls have a better chance of getting married. However at the end of the day, so long as 23 year old boys marry 19 year old girls, we can rest assured that boys will continue to by and large get married relatively quickly and yet we will continue to see hundreds and hundreds of girls never getting married and never having children.



    (I know not every boy is in lakewood, but this point illustrates the problem quite clearly)

  76. To AG:

    Thanks for your “hard numbers.” Hooooray for BMG. All that says is that if you are lucky enough to choose to go to BMG, you’ll be wildly successful with finding your mate. (I hope they advertise – their stock will go through the roof.) But this supposed list going around contains over 150 names of guys that are single (at BMG or otherwise). So obviously, not everyone is having it easy! My point is that if guys were so successful at getting married as soon as they snap their fingers, this list would not exist since they’d all be married already.

    I would not fixate on one reason for the shidduch crisis, catastrophe, etc.(choose your adjective). To believe that any one reason is THE cause for anything as large as this is fooling yourself and rather naive. I believe it is a confluence of factors.

    The fact is that people go out with whom they feel interests them most. Does age play a role in people’s decision making – of course it does. To some it means more and to others it means less. Perhaps not every 19 year old wants a 21 year old boy (who may still be in diapers, if you will, when it comes to understanding life and marriage.) Perhaps she wants someone more accomplished and mature. Are you advocating that the girl not be allowed because of the “greater good”?

    AG – I’d be curious to know if this issue effects you? Are you currently in shidduchim and practicing what you are preaching? I find that many people take a “holier than thou”, liberal, “act for the greater good” approach – EXCEPT – when it effects them. When they are involved suddendly they do an about face and assume a social darwinistic mentality of “eat or be eaten.”

    Advice to you: Avoid advocating overly broad suggestions when you don’t know what you are talking about!

    You also have to believe that Hashem has his master plan. Where is your emunah? Since you know BMG numbers so well, one can only assume you’ve learned the gemarah in Sotah on Daf Bes that says that 40 days prior to a child being conceived, Hashem dicated “Ben Me L’me and Bas Me’ Me”. Don’t point fingers at guys who have done absolutely nothing wrong accept for wanting to do the “ruzton Hashem” and start a family.
    You know what the answer is? Do Teshuvah, Daven, give Tzedakah and do Maasim Tovim and Hashem will take care of you. True that some people have it harder than others. Why do bad things happen to good people? I don’t know – but to start to question Hashem is flat out wrong! Do the Rutzon Hashem and when opportunity knocks – don’t throw it away. We have to also do our hishtadlus and here are a few tips on that:

    Give every suggestion the proper care and attention – you just don’t know whom it is you are saying “no” to. When you go on a date, even if the person does not portray your Fairy Tale image on the first date as you had always imagined – give it another try and see if you can make it work. Don’t be so quick to say no before you’ve got a chance to know the other person. Think to yourself about the first time you met the person that is now your best friend – did you like him/her immediately? Chances are you did not. So why base everything on a first impression when dating?

    To AG – hishtadlus does NOT involve advocating your suggestion – sure people care, but many would disagree with your premise. And even if they would agree, it is still too difficult to implement as people will still do what they want. So don’t confuse not embrasing a suggestion based on wild theories for people not caring. We do care – we care way too much – but first comes us and our own kids because “chayecha kodem.” If you want to do something more about it – become a shaddchan and make a go of it, one shidduch at a time.

  77. I personally like the idea of a list..I happem to be mentioned on the list as a reference (unbeknowst to me). There are a number of good sites for shidduchim…I think sawyouatsinai.com is the best around. It is done in a dignified way, where a Shadchan matches you up and you can only see the profile after the idea was mentioned. That being said, there are many guys (and some girls I’m sure) who don’t want to use an “dating’ site, for a number of reasons. Compiling a list of boys names for girls to be able to be proactive is a very good thing. There are many girls who wait for the phone to ring, and wish they have something tangible they can do (besides davening0. A comprehensive list provides girls the ability of checking out potential leads, and asking their married friend ..who until now says “Oh, I wish my husband had a good guy for you…but he can’t think of any offhand”..now you can say “How about this specific boy who learned in his yeshiva or lived in his neighborhood”. Many times those inquiries lead to successful matches….and even if no dates actually come out of it for the girl…there is some value of being involved, feeling like you are active, waiting for an answer, feeling like you have some handle on the situation.

    The actual information about the boys interests or personality should be only listed by someone who puts his name down next to it (verified of course) and the rights reserved for the boy to decide if he wants to have the final change done to it. (Sort of like wikipedia/shidduchpedia)..however he shouldn’t have the right to take his name off the list.

    After reading the list I myself complied a short list of 8-10 guys who are working between 32-38 years old and not on the list.

    Judging from the response of this topic…it might be a good move for Matzav.com to have a sister site…shidduchmatzav..where this list will be moderated.

  78. This list was compiled for an intimate group of friends from one graduating class consisting of 10 remaining single girls. This list was only intended for those girls’ eyes – nothing formal or confirmed as accurate – just as a springboard for them to work off of. It somehow spread like wildfire and got out of hand. Just started with someone who had the best of intentions and was meant for a specific group of girls – so for all you guys that are taking the greatest offense at a nice gesture from someone relax and don’t take things so to heart and don’t be so judgemental….CHILL OUT!!

  79. to irvguy do you know the guy personaly that they wrote has leanings to chabad? well i guess you dont there is only one guy with that on the whole list and i know him very well probaly the best anyone knows him and its 100% true he does have leanings to lubavitch

  80. irv if you know him that well why dont you call him or go over to him and ask him if he minds that they wrote about him and see what he says

  81. To anon – I love how you say that it “somehow” spread like wildfire. Geeee, I wonder how that happened. “Best of Intentions”? I think not. You know how wildfire became a coined term? Because fire spreads like wild. Imagine starting a forest fire, watching it spread and then wonder in total amazement – “boy, how did that happen”?

    Even if someone had good intentions – that does not excuse blatant disregard for halacha nor provide a justification for ruining people’s lives. Imagine slander being spread “like wildfire” about you – would you be chilled out about it? I THINK NOT!

  82. I was speaking to a Turkish woman who was a fellow graduate student and she told me that she was going back to her country to meet with matchmakers – I told her that we followed a similiar system and that my parents were speaking to shadchanim as well – she looked at me wistfully and said that I must be much sought after in my community – I told her, honey, it doesn’t work that way – You could be smart, attractive, making money, have a shem tov, come from a nice home – and still have a really hard time getting a date – She was incredulous!

  83. To dot dot dot:
    When you say ” There are a number of good sites for shidduchim…I think sawyouatsinai.com is the best around. It is done in a dignified way, where a Shadchan matches you up and you can only see the profile after the idea was mentioned. That being said, there are many guys (and some girls I’m sure) who don’t want to use an “dating’ site, for a number of reasons….”

    I can tell you from the tangible experience of a SYAS Matchmaker, that once the guys “check in”, by and large, it’s like Roach Motel, they don’t/can’t check out. They get so used to 10 different girls’ profiles and pics sent to them per week, they become addicted. Way too many guys stick around there for 5 or more years, because they feel next week’s email will bring EVEN better………..It cheapens girls!!! The ratio of guys to girls is outrageous in the Yeshivish category. Way more girls. It’s great for the guys, awful for the girls. Whether the guys realize it or not, the guys end up sooo spoiled by it, they become permanently addicted fixtures.

  84. yoss – you seem like a very bitter person – you are quick to jump to conclusions and make assumptions that suit your outlook without giving fair jurisdiction to the other side – slander is a harsh word for a few adjectives that could be viewed differently by different people – best of intentions – YES – I know this girl personally and she is a special person who would never intend to hurt a soul – even one as obnoxious as yourself – yes fire does spread as do personal emails that should be kept personal……relax, do chill out – and don’t take things so personally…and try not to blow things out of proportion (ie: “ruining people’s lives”)

  85. To Yoss:

    As for my personal negius: my children are not even remotely near the parsha of shidduchim. My siblings and siblings in law are all married already. With that out of the way…..

    Here two simple facts please let me know which one of the following you disagree with.

    1. Population is growing rapidly baruch hashem apox 3-44% per year. (in the more right wing communities even faster than the slightly less yeshivish)

    The automatic result is that the younger grades are considerably larger than the older grades (by boys and girls)

    2. Girls start dating at aprox. 19 and boys start dating at aprox. 22.5.

    The direct result of these two factors is that every year entering the shidduch pool there are hundreds more girls (19 year olds) than boys (22.5 year olds).

    You point about the list: 150 boys still around ages 26-35. Do you realize that that is far less than 1% of the graduating class that those boys are a part of??

    Not to mitigate the struggle of those individual boys, however clearly boys BY AND LARGE are getting married and they are getting married relatively quickly. The girls however……

    Clearly the community as a whole needs to figure out ways to encourage more close in age shidduchim. We need to make the difficult choices that would create such a result. Other than that we can rest assured that the situation as is will undoubtedly continue to get worse. Inaction is a conscious decision to allow the travesty to continue.

    It is not the boys fault, but the community needs to do something about it.

    Oh by the way Rav Shteinman Shlit”a publicly referred to this problem as one of the greatest tazros facing klal yisroel. Mahran does get the concept of age gap.

    I repeat Is ANYONE HOME??

  86. Yoss:

    “but to start to question Hashem is flat out wrong!”

    Who is questioning hashem? This is a totally self inflicted crisis. Their is no maimar chazal encoraging 23 yr old boys to date 19 year old girls. It is a self created problem, and it is in our hands to solve it.

  87. To AG: What are Rav Shteinman shlit”a’s exact words on the matter? What specific steps does he recommend? (And if he doesn’t recommend specific steps, does that not say something?)

    And the $64 question: what is the age difference between you and your wife? Even if you got married before the New Age awareness, what was your thinking when you were in the parasha? What criteria did you use? Were there any other global issues (i.e. what impact on the klal will this personal decision have) that came into play?

  88. One last question: there is no maimar saying a boy should be three or four years older, but don’t chazal say that a wife should look up to her husband? What steps are we taking to make sure that our boys are becoming young men these wonderful, qualified, excellent girls can look up to?

  89. To Lav Davka,
    True, there might be flaws in the SYAS system, but those reasons mentioned will occur even more on other sites, and that “there is always another one better out there” mentality is prevalent amongst many guys. It is one of the challenges a guy or girl must deal with when in this parsha….there will always be someone out there that at least ‘on paper’ sounds more intriguing….

    I will admit, that there might be the “westside” effect, with these lists and sites. Where guys/girls end up turning down potential matches based on the idea of “oh him/her, I already know him/her.” As opposed to the freshness on a new name and all the excitement of the salespitch that might go into it.

    Our issue on hand, is how to devise a medium for the girls or their advocates to be proactive and ‘stir the pot a little’ to get things moving…I do believe that arming each girl/parent with more information will be helpful for all.

  90. AG – put some meat in the game and then lets see if you will retain your idealism. Additionally, if you feel so strongly about it, why don’t YOU do something about it, instead of just whining on the comments of a website?

    anon – I repeat, lets spread some inaccurate info about you and see how much you like it and how it enhances your shidduch prospects. To ruin someone’s shidduch chances — I’d call that pretty high up there with ruining someone’s life. The problem is that you don’t realize it. Oh, and attacking someone’s argument by attacking the one making the argument is cheap. I am a very happy person, BH. I am just a realist that recognizes an injustice when it is being done and man enough to say it.

    Thats all for now – I have more important things to tend to – like being mekabel the torah.

  91. I just heard that they sent out an updated version of the list…taking out all information besides basc statistics..and just writing “upper 20’s” for age….I guess people felt their age shouldn’t be documented.

  92. So the Gedolim and the Askonim and the Kahal are talking about it, but what are they doing about it?

    Talking alone doesnt change anything.

  93. Tzippi:

    Rav Shteinmasn’s exact words “ze’hu mei’ha’tzaros ha’chi gedolos she’yeish bikalal yisroel hayom”


    I’m willing to take up your challenge. Are you willing to meet me step for step in working towards encouraging more close in age shidduchim??


    There is a project out there (the NASI Project) which I’m told has been extremely effective in encouraging many more close in age shiduchim. They have the backing of numerous gedolim both here and abroad. They have been quite successful in raising awareness in general about the Age Gap induced shidduch crisis. However in order to implement effective changes that will encourage a combination of

    a) boys to starting to date slightly younger,
    b) boys dating girls coser to their own age, c) over time girls starting to date slightly older

    There needs to be a very strong push from the tzibbur at large. To date WE are still sitting on our hands.

    I repeat is ANYONE home??

  94. To tzippi:
    I have various ideas, but I’m NOT smart enough or powerful enough to implement them, but hopefully Gedolim ARE smart enough and they ARE certainly powerful enough, to become involved, until they lessen the numbers of single girls over 25, and prevent more from falling into that category, with each passing year.

    Only those who don’t have an older single girl in their family, don’t realize the frustration and sadness involved. Telling people to have Bitachon isn’t enough. People are in pain, and the numbers are steadily increasing.

  95. Its interesting that everyone here is suddenly focusing on the older girls but disregarding the older guys, as if to say that the older guys out there (yes they do exist) need no help whatsoever. Would it not then make more sense to seek to help the older girls by making lists of girls? Any BMG guy out there that dated 150 girls want to put together a list? A bissel post night seder homework tonight?

  96. To AG: thank you. But did he have any precise directions as to how to implement it?
    The ONLY way the New Age plans will work is if boys will EXCLUSIVELY date girls within the guidelines. I have a hard time believing that there is an entire dor out there whose basherts are all within those narrow age guidelines. It is one thing to encourage boys – and girls – to think outside the box but you have to get 100% compliance, and you won’t.

    I want my kids to build batei ne’eman b’Yisrael. I am not one of those lunatic mothers who are extorting my future machatanim who still have to pay tuition for minor children and looking for daughters in law who probably have borderline eating disorders (don’t get me started). There are so many other important thing.

  97. Tzippi:

    “The ONLY way the New Age plans will work is if boys will EXCLUSIVELY date girls within the guidelines”

    Totally incorrect. No one needs or is asking for 100% of all shidduchim to be within close in age. What we need is SIGNIFICANTLY more close in age shidduchim than have been made in the past.

  98. re:azoi-is:Please share your suggestions.

    1-Those in our community who “when they talk, people listen” (Askonim, etc.
    should get involved in Shidduchim b’lev shalem.
    2-Every Shul and every school should have appointed people to attend to the needs of their singles/graduates. Even boys need help, as not all boys have lists.
    3.Singles who are dating longer than 2 years, should be urged to speak to Shidduch mentors to discus their issues. Once they’re on the market longer than that, they’re viewed as difficult cases.

    Those are two for starters.

  99. azoi-is

    All your suggestions are wonderul. one question: How does it in any which way alleviate the age gap, or do you not feel that the age gap is at the center of the crisis??

    Bear in mind, w/o changing the age gap situation we will continue to have boys by and large getting married and girls staying single

  100. To anonymous 5:54 above:

    Perhaps all suggestions should be implemented. The question is how do we get those in power to implement the ideas, so that they’re seriously enforced (more seriously than the wedding Takanos). Otherwise this is all talk.

  101. Only way to get ideas implemented is by the tzibbur making it very clear that this is what they want. That will only happen by raising awareness of the seriousness of the isssue. As long as the community continues to sleepwalk through the crisis there will be no significant action from leaders.

  102. The writer of the list posted her contact information which I think strongly suggests this was done lesheim shomayim. It is obvious that the opinions are subjective but then when we are asked about such and such a boy or girl, our answers are always subjective as answering shidduch questions is not a science. There is often a gulf of Yam Suf proportions between what Mummy thinks her tzaddik wants and what the tzaddik wants. A girl he has dated is often the best one to smell the coffee. Conversely with girls. She may, as the shadchan and her mother will proudly tell you, be makpid to always daven mincha but when she is out on a date…is the boy to be blamed for passing on to his friends hwo she dresses? Get real people.

  103. As someone involved in Shidduchim, I can tell you with certainty that lists like those, will lead to Shidduchim. That’s the proof of the pudding.

    If all the annoyed guys had been able to find Miss Right without the list, they’d be married by now. Nothing in life is without good and bad.

  104. And the post didn’t get through! Here’s what I said in case it accidentally got deleted:
    Say you have a 22 y.o. girl who wants a working guy who has a good few years of solid learning behind him before he went to school/started working. He’s likely to be 24, 25. Should she wait 2 or 3 years to start dating?

  105. Tzippi:

    In case you haven’t been following the age gap discussion. No directives have been given in any shape or form to the girls and/or their families. The reason is simply because THEY will not listen. However it is incumbent upon shadchanim, mentors, and parents of boys to encourage them to date girls there own age.

    WHich part of this is difficult??

  106. AG, you’re not paying attention, or you’re ignoring me. Do you really feel that such a girl should wait till she’s 24? Please answer me directly.

  107. tzippi:

    Why wait til 24- date at 19 and support a couple of years. Everyone does it- rich and poor. If you want change- let’s change that!

  108. As long as you’re dating someone within 2 years of your age and not older guys who you’d be taking away from the older girls.

  109. Tzippi:

    It is a wastes of time to talk to the girls and their parents as they won’t listen. (if I was a mother of a girls 18 I would do whatever I can to get her married. HOWEVER, shadchanim, parents of boys, rebbeim etc. need to encourage the boys to look for close in age girls.

    Incidentally, redding shidduchim to the sem girls coming back in a couple of weeks, is a big avla. Doing so will only ensure that we continue the devastating situation we find ourselves in now.

  110. Size 2 with Yichus: I’m with you, and that’s why the New Age thing bothers me so much. There are so many more fundamental shidduch-related issues, and the age thing may well be only exacerbating those problems. (Like the incessant letter writers who say, Let’s solve the numbers problem by having boys start dating even earlier!)

    But enough about that. Size 2 with yichus? I’m sure I can find someone for you 😉

  111. You know AG, imagine a world where the girls wait till 22+ to get married. I would love all the professional numbers crunchers to factor in how many fewer babies will be born in the next generation…

  112. Depends. Do you have money?
    BTW, I don’t think the boys themselves realize – and this is an important point, but I have to say this delicately – that size 12 does not = overweight, or frumpy, or fat.