Die Welt: Mr. Prime Minister, the last time we sat down for an . Since then you called early elections, there was a mini war with the terrorists in Gaza and Mahmoud Abbas was granted associate status for a Palestinian state at the United Nations (UN) just a few of days ago. Has the Middle East entered a phase of accelerated speed and change?
Bibi Netanyahu: Absolutely. The Middle East has undergone a tremendous convulsion. Hectic events follow one another. There is great instability because of the inherent tension within Arab societies. The fight between modernity and medievalism has not been decided and I think that effects everything that we see around us. We can see half of Palestinian society overtaken by radical Islamists supported by Iran and the other half is moving away from peace with unilateral resolutions at the UN.
Die Welt: Before the Palestinians went to the UN, Israel threatened harsh measures in response and now you announced new settlement building between Jerusalem and Maaleh Adumin. If further settlement construction is Israel’s default option, it makes it very difficult to believe that you’re really interested in a peace agreement.
Netanyahu: We have strategic interests and well maintain those strategic interests under all international pressure. As far as our future action is concerned, it depends on the Palestinians. If they continue to act unilaterally, then we’ll respond accordingly. If they act in a more restrained way, we’ll respond accordingly as well.
Die Welt: With the swift and careful action in Gaza, it seemed that Israel had gained international credit and also the fact that it stopped before a ground invasion. Now it seems that you’re losing the credit that you gained in Europe with the announced settlement building. The French and British have even threatened to recall their ambassadors.
Netanyahu: I suppose Israelis should have become used to the fact that we don’t get a fair hearing in Europe, but we expect otherwise. Because every fair minded person knows that Israel is a beleaguered country, under attack. We’re the only country threatened with genocide. We vacated territory right next to our cities, territory that has been taken over by the proxies of Iran, territory from which they’ve fired thousand of rockets on our cities and from which they openly call for our destruction.
Now we’re asked to vacate more territory right next to Jerusalem, right next to Tel Aviv, without any guarantees whatsoever from the other side that they’ll recognize the Jewish state, that the’ll end the conflict, thatwe’ll have the necessary security arrangements so that what happened in Gaza and in Lebanon when we vacated them, doesn’t happen again for a third time.
Yet none of this appears in the UN resolution. It is completely one-sided; it is a gross violation of the Palestinian’s commitment not to go to the UN and to resolve issues through peace negotiations. This now has all been swept aside and of course we have to protect our vital interests, and so we’re doing that. But the fact that the Palestinians tore to shreds their commitments under the Oslo Accords and went to the UN unilaterally is somehow dismissed.
Our response which is measured and certainly less than proportional is blown out sky high. That’s neither fair nor judicious, because it doesn’t bring peace closer. It pushes it back. It hardens the Palestinian’s positions and it tells us something very, very disturbing. It tells us there’s no value to making agreements for peace, because when the other side violates it, nobody will hold them accountable. Only Israel, when it takes actions to protect its own interests, will be held accountable. I don’t think that encourages peace.
Die Welt: But the very place where you announced settlement building is a place where construction will make it very difficult in the future to come to a peace agreement with the Palestinians. It’s vital for a future Palestinian state.
Netanyahu: I disagree. They’re talking about a Palestinian state between Gaza and the West Bank and there’s no continuum there. Here, we’re talking about an area that is one mile, two miles wide, that connects Jerusalem to a suburb that in all peace plans will remain part of the State of Israel. All previous Israeli governments have had the position that this suburb of Jerusalem called Maaleh Adumim, which has about 40.000 people, will be part of Israel in a final settlement deal.
All governments talked about the possibility of building tunnels, bridges, roads there to facilitate Palestinian movement. So to say that this will jeopardize the possibility of a Palestinian state is neither true nor responsible. In any case what we’ve advanced so far is only planning, and we will have to see. We shall act further based on what the Palestinians do. If they don’t act unilaterally, then we won’t have any purpose to do so either.
Die Welt: Were you surprised by the reaction of France and UK and Sweden?
Netanyahu: I think that there’s a willingness to believe the worst about Israel in some quarters of Europe, and that’s something that has been part of our history in Europe for many generations. People believed outrageous things about the Jewish people, as some now believe about the Jewish state. What is our great crime? What is it we’re doing? We’re building in the areas that will remain in a final peace settlement of Israel. This is not some foreign land. This is the land in which the Jewish people have been for close to 4000 years.
What we’re talking about is suburbs contiguous to Jerusalem. And everybody knows that they will remain part of Israel. You don’t change the map, you don’t prejudge anything. I think there is heightened sensitivity. I didn’t see this heightened sensitivity from some of these governments when the Palestinians violated the Oslo Accords. I didn’t see them speaking out when President Abbas claimed solidarity with the Hamas terrorists who are rocketing Israel. I didn’t see it when they speak now of a union between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. I don’t hear that and I don’t think that this is conducive to peace. I think it’s counterproductive.
I think the one-sided criticism of Israel just tells the Palestinians that they can get away with violating their solemn pledges for peace, and I don’t think it advances peace. Israel is prepared to have peace with a Palestinian state. The Palestinians want a Palestinian state without peace. Many of these European governments who voted for this thinking it may advance peace but in fact this pushes peace backwards because it tells the Palestinians you can get international recognition and international legitimacy without making the necessary compromises for peace.
Die Welt: So what you’re basically saying is that the countries that voted for the associate membership status of the Palestinian state violated the Oslo Agreement?
Netanyahu: I think maybe that wasn’t their intention. Maybe their intention in voting for it or even abstaining was the thought that they were somehow advancing peace. In effect, the consequence was the exact opposite. What it does is it encourages the Palestinians to believe that they don’t need to make the fundamental compromise of recognizing Israel and coming to terms with it, and they’ll still get international recognition. That’s not a blueprint for peace.
Die Welt: Your government also decided to hold back tax transfers to the PA and use them for outstanding electricity bills. Many of your security experts have frequently warned that stripping the PA of money could destabilize the situation in the West Bank and endanger the security cooperation Israel.
Netanyahu: They do owe us that money and they haven’t paid it, and we have the right to deduct the funds they owe us. Other governments do the same every day on outstanding debts that they are owed.
Die Welt: Since the start of the Arab revolts Israel seems to be increasingly beleaguered and on the defense. Was the Gaza war an attempt to play on the offense again?
Netanyahu: No, it was a response to the fact that we’ve been rocketed with rockets every fourteen days. A million of our citizens were rocketed with hundreds of rockets. No country would accept such a thing. We responded forcefully, but in a very precise way. The Palestinian terrorists in Gaza target civilians while hiding behind civilians and committing a double war crime. Israel, in response, took very precise aim at the rocketeers and rockets and we were able to achieve the end of this firing with minimal civilian casualties. That’s the whole difference, they seek to maximize civilian casualties and we seek to minimize them. I think the difference in the methods of the two sides underlines a difference in the goals. Those who trample all human rights and are willing to slaughter civilians in masses don’t care for human rights, they don’t care for democracy and they don’t care for peace. In fact Hamas and the satellite terrorist organizations in Gaza openly call for our destruction, for genocide. And they are openly supported by Iran that calls for a genocide. We seek peace and coexistence and we follow the most responsible and legitimate path of defense. They seek the very opposite.
Die Welt: In Europe many people consider you to be a hardliner, so it took some people by surprise that you didn’t order a ground attack in Gaza. Also many Israelis didn’t like that because they wanted to finish off the extremists for good this time. What were the reasons you decided to hold back even after the Cabinet had agreed to the biggest mobilization since the Lebanon War?
Netanyahu: I had a very clear goal in mind when I started the operation. It was to exact a price from the Hamas terrorists for these frequent attacks on our cities, and to destroy the bulk of their long-range weapons which were aimed at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and the sizable part of their middle-range rockets which were fired on our cities at a range of 40 kilometers. Once those goals were achieved, I said in advance in our internal cabinet deliberations, that we would advance a ceasefire. That’s exactly what I did. But of course there was always a possibility that this would develop into a broader conflict, and for that reason we had mobilized the reserves. As it turned out, they weren’t needed.
Die Welt: An Israeli TV channel suggested that there were other factors also. They reported that the Egyptians had threatened to cancel the peace agreement if Israel invaded Gaza. Is that correct?
Netanyahu: That wasn’t a factor. I won’t respond to our exchanges with the Egyptians except to say that in this case, they facilitated a ceasefire. It certainly wasn’t a consideration because I think the Egyptians understand equally that it was in their interest as much as ours to achieve an end to the hostilities. I don’t think that it serves the interest of Egypt to be dragged into a broader conflict because of Iranian-backed terrorist action in Gaza against Israel.
Die Welt: If we look at all the threats that Israel faces, why would anyone in the world want your job? It seems to be the toughest job in the world.
Netanyahu: [Laughs] Well, it’s a good question, but apparently not enough people are asking it because quite a few people would like to have it. I have this position not for any personal reasons, it is because I feel a deep mission to protect the Jewish people and the one and only Jewish state. We’ve had a horrible history on the soil of Europe. Our people were murdered – six million of our people and from the ashes of the Holocaust, we built the state. This state is being attacked again and again by Arab states and now by Iranian-backed terrorists. And it’s being attacked again and again with slander. In our history, including on the soil of Europe, we had a regular pattern. First the Jewish people were maligned, then they were attacked. And the maligning, the vilification served as the legitimization for the attacks that followed, and in many ways this is what is happening to the State of Israel.
It is vilified again and again in public opinion, including in European public opinion, to prepare the attacks. And people don’t know the facts. They don’t know that we were attacked from the areas that we’re now asked to return. They don’t know that when we vacated territories in Gaza, once we walked out, Iran immediate walked in and they fired rockets on us. Can people seriously ask us to just walk away? To vacate all this area? Can they seriously tell us you have no connection to these areas? These areas where Abraham, Isaac and Jacob walked, where my ancestors walked, where Jews have been for thousands of years?
I’m not saying that we don’t recognize that there’s another people there. I do, and I want a peace with them. And I’m prepared for them to have their own state, but I don’t want to see a situation where we are completely erased, that we – who do not want to rule the Palestinians – have them establish another Iranian-backed terror state on the suburbs of Tel Aviv that threatens our very survival.
Die Welt: You and your brother have both been in the military. Your older brother died in action. You were wounded. Do you think this makes you hard or determined in a way that European politicians in this generation that you’re dealing with, who were born after the Second World War, just can’t understand? That you can’t find a common language in some cases because it’s just such a different experience?
Netanyahu: If you’ve been in battle it is not something you would want to repeat. It’s not a pleasant experience. I myself was wounded, as you say, in a rescue effort of the hijacked Sabina airplane. First of all, it’s not a particularly pleasant thing to be wounded by gunfire. And also, it’s tragic to lose a brother, as I did, or a husband, or a father, or a son. Anybody who’s been through war does their utmost to prevent war. That is something that is very, very strong, and that is why before I decide on military action, I think very carefully about the consequences. That’s something that is very deeply ingrained.
On the other hand, we also have the knowledge that if once again we become defenseless, we won’t exist. We had no defenses before the establishment of the Jewish state, and we could be tossed like a leaf in the wind. And we were incinerated like refuse. And so the Jewish state was established, among other things, to give the Jewish people a home in their ancestral homeland, but also to give them the capacity for self-defense. Our enemies who know that they cannot defeat us on the battlefield in legitimate warfare, are using two types of weapons against us: the weapon of terror – rockets fired on our cities. And the weapon of lies. To describe Israel as a mighty Goliath when in fact, it’s a David facing so many challenges from every direction, by people who are committed to our destruction.
We don’t seek to destroy them. We don’t seek to destroy the Palestinians. We seek to live in peace with them. We don’t use a fraction of our power because we have constraints on the use of military force. If you’re a soldier, you know those constraints, and I do as a former soldier. But the difference is this: we seek to live in peace with our neighbors, and they seek to either eradicate us with a frontal attack, or to establish a state that will not live in peace with us. And either one is unacceptable. There is no one in Israel who wants peace more than me. I’ve seen the tragedy of war, and I know the blessings of peace. But to achieve peace you have to have a partner that is willing to sit down and negotiate. And so far, I have not been able to get such a partner. For four years, I’ve been calling on President Abbas to sit down and negotiate. For four years, he’s run away from responding to that call, and in fact, he just did that again by going to the UN.
Die Welt: When the Arab revolutions began, Israel warned of the possible consequences. It seems now that the Islamist movements are the victors of this development, and it seems also that Israel’s hands are increasingly tied, also politically, in the region. How do you navigate in this kind of environment?
Netanyahu: The Middle East will go through considerable turbulence, and so far, all the hopes that the Google kids will emerge victorious in the various countries have proven false.What has generally happened is that the radicals have taken hold. That doesn’t bode well for the rights of women, the rights of minorities and human rights in general. If we had hopes that we’ll see liberal democracy take place in the Arab countries, that has not happened.
Die Welt: Can you feel that your maneuvering space is getting smaller?
Netanyahu: It’s certainly a challenge. We’ve had a stable peace agreement with Egypt for the last three decades and with Jordan informal peace for several decades and a formal peace since the mid-90s, and this is much valued and I hope it continues. But we also see what is happening in Syria. We see Iran’s race for nuclear weapons. We see the flow of weapons from Iran and Libya into Sinai and into Gaza, and all of this presents new challenges.
We have to address the challenges as they are. This has nothing to do with Israel. It has everything to do with the inherent instability of the Middle East; the fact that liberal democratic values have not taken root there. You need to enfranchise people, politically and economically. And in many parts of the Middle East, that has not happened. Because you don’t have economic development, I would say there is a general frustration and a rush to Islamist movements who offer easy solutions but don’t necessarily solve anything. This will go on for quite some time. We have to do what we can to make ourselves strong for this interim period. We’ve been through difficult periods before; we’ll get through them again.
Die Welt: Israel’s well-being is not only threatened by external developments; it seems that the productive part of society in Israel itself is getting always smaller. You could call it a middle-class squeeze because they are the ones who have to pay the taxes and who go to the army. According to the OECD, the Israeli school system is also falling behind. What would a new Netanyahu government do to change that?
Netanyahu: First of all our economy has been holding up better than most advanced economies in the world. I think we’re very close to the top in terms of our growth rates, in terms of our unemployment rate, which is about 7 percent – almost 5 percent below the European average. We’ve created hundreds of thousands of jobs in Israel over the last three years. We’ve done that because we’ve managed the economy responsibly and enabled the private sector to continue to innovate and to profit.
At the same time a greater percentage of the ultra-orthodox and the Arabs are entering the job market, and it’s primarily a problem with ultra-orthodox men and Arab women. Participation in the labor force is growing, and I intend to encourage it even more. As far as our education system, we introduced some dramatic reforms, upgraded our higher education that is world-renowned, and also made reforms from the pre-school age, and right up through the chain. I think you’re going to see that reflected in the international tests and you’ll be surprised by what you see.
Die Welt: I meet a lot of young Israelis moving to Berlin and of course if you go to New York, you have a lot of bright, young Israelis living there, working there, founding companies there. Do you fear that the stress you have here, this political situation pushes some of the brightest people out of the country to some places where they feel safer?
Netanyahu: That happens, but you should know that the opposite is also happening. We’ve started these centers of excellence in the last three years in our universities, in which we try to get Israelis abroad – Israeli scientists and academicians in the leading areas of technology, medicine, life sciences – to come back to Israel. We’ve had remarkable success. They’ve come back from Harvard, Stanford, MIT, the best universities in the United States and elsewhere. We are building a new medical school in Safed in the Galilee that is going to become a world center for life sciences and the bio-medical industry. We’ve got tremendous developments in bio-technology and cyber-technology and many other areas, and we’ve got the most robust venture capital industry, certainly in the Eastern hemisphere.
So amidst all the problems that we’re discussing, Israel has had one rule – you continue to build and develop the country. We’ve been in one form of siege or another since the establishment of the state. We continue to build the state; we continue to develop it. Our population has grown ten-fold through natural increase and through immigration. Our GDP per capita was equal to that of our neighbors, and it’s now, in some cases, 15 times bigger. We’ve had tremendous developments in science and technology, in agriculture. Israeli scientists have won more Nobel Prizes per capita than any other country in the world. So I”m actually sanguine about the power of creativity that we have here.
Are there difficulties? Sure. Challenges? Sure. But I think that there is a basic robustness in our country, probably because of our unique history. People realize that history is not going to give the Jewish people another chance. This is our chance. This is our country. This is our state, and we have to both protect it and develop it as we seek a durable and defensible peace with our neighbors.
Die Welt: And you need everyone committed to the state, so do you see a chance to get the ultra-orthodox to serve in the army?
Netanyahu: Yes, their numbers have grown. In fact, their numbers have grown steadily.
Die Welt: But you can’t force them.
Netanyahu: Well, we’re going to have to decide how to do that. That’s one of the challenges of the next government, but what has been happening is a steady move into both the armed forces and no less important, and maybe as important, is the entry into the job market.
Die Welt: How does that work?
Netanyahu: One of the ways it works is by something that I did in 2003, when I was finance minister. Because of an economic crisis, I cut child allowances and so there has been a steady movement into the job market, both in the orthodox sector and in the Arab sector. And that is actually a way to increase our GDP per capita. Our GDP per capita is now over 31.000 US-Dollar. Obviously, if you can get more orthodox men and more Arab women into the job market, it’ll grow and we could easily become as prosperous on a per capita basis as the leading countries of Europe.
Die Welt: Is that what you plan on doing, implement further cuts in child allowances?
Netanyahu: It’s already been done. It’s cut pretty low. But obviously, we want to take steps that encourage people to enter the job market. I think that is very important. We could increase our productivity, and I think Israel has had, actually, a remarkable history given all the turmoil around us, given that we have to pay much more than other countries for our defenses – the fact that we’ve moved from being an emerging economy, to a developed economy, the fact that we joined the OECD, the fact that we are ranked fifth or sixth in health care, and Israelis rank themselves 14 on the scale of the happiness index in the world – is a measure of success. I think it’s a triumph of hope over despair.
Die Welt: Your Likud party significantly moved to the right in the vote for the party list. How does it feel for a man with your political and ideological history to find himself at the left fringes of your own party?
Netanyahu: Well, I think that’s exaggerated. I represent what I believe are the views of most Israelis. I think that when people come to power or to positions of leadership, they usually temper their positions with a dose of realism.
Die Welt: Like you did?
Netanyahu: Of course, everybody does. I think people didn’t pay attention to the things that I said over the years about my desire to achieve a sustainable peace with our neighbors. There’s been an interesting shift in Israel. People have moved to the right, but the move to the right is on security. They’ve not moved to the right on their willingness to make peace. They want a tough hand on security because that’s a natural response for people who received thousands of rockets on their cities. But Israelis remain, as I do, committed to peace.
What we haven’t seen is a commensurate move from the Palestinian side, and we hope that it will happen. But even if it does happen, then this peace will have to be protected by very robust security arrangements, because we’ve seen what has happen before. We’ve vacated an area, gave the keys to President Abbas in Gaza, and within days, the Hamas kicked him out and Iran walked in. We can’t have that happen again. So the peace we need to negotiate is one that can be defended. A peace you can’t defend will not last two weeks in the Middle East.
Die Welt: In the latest Gaza offensive, the German government and Angela Merkel personally were very vocal in defending Israel’s right to defend itself against rockets from Gaza, but on the other hand some Israelis have been disappointed that Germany didn’t vote against the Palestinian move at the UN. Are you coming with mixed feelings to Berlin?
Netanyahu: First of all, I appreciated the support of Chancellor Merkel and the German government during the operation in Gaza, and I think it was widely recognized that we were defending ourselves against terrorists who were rocketing our cities. At the same time, I would be disingenuous if I didn’t tell you that I was disappointed, as were many people in Israel, by the German vote in the UN. I think that people understand that there is a special relationship between Germany and Israel. I think that Chancellor Merkel believed that this vote would somehow advance peace. That was her goal.
But in fact the opposite happened because, in the aftermath of the UN resolution, we see that the Palestinian Authority under President Abbas is moving to unite with the Hamas terrorists. The resolution did not call for recognizing the Jewish state or ending the conflict with us or having security safeguards. It has encouraged the Palestinians, actually to toughen their position and not to enter negotiations. So despite the goal of the German abstention, I think that it produced the opposite outcome. It has pushed peace backwards. So I look forward to the opportunity to discuss with Chancellor Merkel how we can move on from here.
Die Welt: You lost your father this year. He was a renowned historian. Could you describe what his legacy means for you or what the most important political lesson is that he taught you?
Netanyahu: My father was a great historian; I suppose you would call him a 19th century great historian. He was of that caliber, and he wrote some magnificent histories, including a history of the Spanish Inquisition. He died last year, when he was 102, so he had a century of wisdom that he accumulated. He told me that he believed that the greatest danger to any living organism is the inability to see danger in time, which is what plagued the Jewish people a number of times in its history, including of course, before the Holocaust; and that the responsibility of leaders, of course, is to protect the people. So I’ve taken that lesson to heart.
The second thing he told me was that peace is only made with the strong. Nobody will make peace with a weak Israel; nobody will make peace with an Israel that cannot defend itself. And I think that is something that most Israelis understand instinctively. This is a very tough neighborhood, the Middle East, and we have to be able to defend ourselves in order to achieve peace. The third thing he told me, as someone who is a father who lost his son, my oldest brother, is to cherish peace, to cherish a situation where you can actually not lose loved ones. I have children of my own, I have grandchildren. I want to see them live in peace. I know that in the Middle East, the only peace that will be sustained is a peace you can defend.
Die Welt: You said it’s such a tough neighborhood here. What do you do for your personal peace? What do you do before you go to bed, just to lower your blood pressure after all this?
Netanyahu: I watch the History Channel. If it’s good, I don’t fall asleep quickly and if it’s bad, I fall asleep immediately. And I read a great deal.
Die Welt: History books?
Netanyahu: I read history, politics, economics. On occasion, I read a good play, although it’s better to see them. I just reread “Copenhagen”. It’s a good play about Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg meeting in Copenhagen, I think in 1942. It’s a very interesting play.
Die Welt: What is the last book that really, deeply impressed you?
Netanyahu: Well, I read a book, “A Brief History of Man”, by an Israeli professor. It was very good. It goes back a few million years. When it comes to Israel, for many, history didn’t exist before the Six Day War. Everything happened on the day we happened to walk into the territories. I mean the fact that we were attacked from these territories from 1920, for half a century before 1967 – what was that all about? The Palestinian Arabs held those territories. Arab countries held those territories. Why did they attack us from them? If those territories are the source of the conflict, why were we attacked for 47 years? Because it’s not the source of the conflict.
The source of the conflict was the opposition to the State of Israel in any borders. The constant repetition of anti-Israel propaganda has turned the results of Arab aggression into its cause. The fact is that we are in those territories as a result of an attempt to choke our country in the Six Day War, which we prevented. Now it’s become the cause, but when we walk out of territories that we took over in 1967 like Gaza, they keep firing the rockets at us, and we ask them: “Why are you doing it? I mean, if we walked out of Gaza, why are you firing on Tel Aviv?” They say: “Because we want to liberate Palestine.” We say: “What do you mean, the West Bank? You mean where the other Palestinians are?” They say: “No, Tel Aviv. We want Tel Aviv; we want Haifa; we want Jerusalem; we want Ashdod; we want Beer Sheva.”
That is the root cause of the conflict: the unwillingness to make peace with Israel in any borders, and the minute you have Arab leaders willing to make a genuine compromise, recognize the State of Israel and make peace with it – as in the case of Anwar Sadat of Egypt or the late King Hussein of Jordan – Israel made peace. I would make peace in a heartbeat with Abu Mazen if he wanted peace, but he went to the UN. His speech in the UN was not the speech of a man who wants peace. It was terrible incitement, full of venom. It wasn”t the way that a leader speaks to his people preparing them for peace. And when that changes, he’ll see Israel respond very rapidly.
Die Welt: Your family is now a political dynasty in Israel. Your grandfather was already important; your father was very important for the country; now you’re the Prime Minister; your brother is a military hero. What about your sons? Are they interested in politics? Doyou sometimes talk to them, are they thinking about following in your footsteps?
Netanyahu: No father would want, no one in this job would want their children to go into political life. It’s not particularly pleasant. It’s full of purpose, but it is not necessarily what you wish for your children.
Die Welt: You would advise them not to do it?
Netanyahu: I do it all the time. I’m not sure it helps, but I try to… I think children today and young people, my two boys are 18 and 21, are exceptionally well-informed, and they follow the trials and tribulations of the political life, and certainly my role in it too. So sometimes I wish they’d get some rest from it. If I can’t get a rest from it, I hope they would.
Die Welt: Do you argue? Do you sometimes fight about political issues?
Netanyahu: Well, we have our discussions, but they’re wonderful boys. One of them was the National Bible Champion at the age of 15, and every Saturday after lunch, we sit down and we read a passage from the Bible. I used to be able to teach my son and now he usually teaches me. He’s very erudite. Sometimes we escape to the past, and sometimes we escape to the future and we talk about the developments that are happening in technology and what could happen in the 21st century. My sons will see it; I won’t.
Source: DIE WELT