“Organization” Encourages Children to Promote Controversial Boro Park Eiruv


eruvBack in the day, when the vast majority of our youth veered from Torah, Zeirei Agudath Yisroel and Young Israel was founded to help the young of Israel cling to the Torah.

Thankfully, these organizations are not needed for that purpose today.

A new organization has now cropped up, however. It is for children – perhaps only boys – between the ages of 8 and 12. Any child of said age who signs up to promote the Boro Park Eiruv was offered free rides this past Chol Hamoed. Additionally, they will be taken fishing on Fridays, free of charge. Other trips and perks are in the offing as well.

The organization is called Zierei Vaad Hoeirev, and young children are being persuaded to believe in the validity of the Boro Park Eiruv, which has been deemed halachically unacceptable by leading poskim of this and the previous generations.

Among those who do not carry in the Boro Park Eiruv are Chassidim of Bobov, Satmar, Ger and Klausenburg, among others.

The aforementioned “organization,” officially sponsored by the Vaad Ho’eirev of Boro Park, published brochures, signs and pamphlets and have had them placed all over Boro Park. The boys who participate will be taken to see how the eiruv “works” and the area that it ostensibly covers.

Because of the strong opposition to the eiruv by leading poskim, many have expressed consternation at the idea of involving children in this endeavor.

“Even if you carry in Boro Park, is this organization justified?” a Boro Park askan, expressed to Matzav.com. “Why raise children to get involved in such battles? And if this organization is altruistic, why is it limited to those who carry on Shabbos? If one chooses – as the majority do – not to rely on this eiruv on Shabbos, why should his son not get the free rides or free trips?”

At this time, some are afraid that the vocal opposition to the eiruv is waning and the laxity it is causing is being ignored, with people being indifferent to the matter. At this time, it is not clear if this new effort has received any rabbinic backing.

{Yossi Schneider-Matzav.com Newscenter}


  1. How can you so bluntly state “which has been deemed halachically unacceptable”, while many leading poskim gave their consent to the eiruv,its a disgrace to just blankly state that, eventhough i dont use the eruv i respect rabanim hamatirim and those that go with their opinion,

    PS i think Klausenburg is Mattir the eiruv!

  2. The late Mathematician Prof. Ehrenpreiss A”H after calculating the Eruv stats, came the conclusion that those who hold of the Eruv either were given incorrect information or they didn’t know how to count.

  3. Oh please, when the eruv was erected I and my friends were all raised to beleive that no posek held of the eruv, and that anybody who carried was a mechalel shabbos etc etc. Rav Yechezkel Roth and others hold of the eruv.

  4. The report is missing some crucial points. I saw one of their promotional pieces a few weeks ago.

    They are trying to get kids to go around and collect money for the eiruv, not just generically ‘promote’ it. That seems to indicate indicate that they are having trouble raising funds for their enterprise. In the past I know that they have tried raising funds for it by telephone calls.

    Are you interested in a scan of a piece of the promotional material? It could be translated so people get a better idea of what is involved.

    Here are some more details.

    They want these youngsters to collect money from people on their block for the so called eiriv (as it spelled on sign at boundary)/eiruv on erev Shabbos (now the days are longer and kids are off then). For every dollar a kid collects he gets a point. They claim that a child can collect $20 a block a week.

    The following incentives are offered

    Participation in their ‘maamad eiruvei chatzeiros’ yearly with their spiritual leader who okays it, the Serdaheli Rabbi of Boro Park. Kids will get a piece of shmura matza from the eiruv, which they say is a big segulah for protection from all bad things.

    They claim that their eiruv costs a very large amount of money weekly, as was explained by them previously.

    Those that bring in 100 points (or 150 when two children go together) get a ride in the eiruv (bucket) truck over thirty feet tall, followed by tour of eiruv with mashgichim.

    Those that bring in 200 points (300 if two children go together) will be able to participate in a special fishing trip this summer to catch fish for Shabbos in a big ship in the Atlantic ocean.

  5. Why do you write about the leading poskim who are against the eiruv but not about the leading poskim who are pro eriv.

    The poskim who are the Matirim, who say the eiriv is kosher L’katchila, are the gedolei yisroel to whom the world turned to following 9/11. These “same” Rabbonim were matir the aguna’s of the 4 women who’s husmand were in the towers. This means they were Matir an aishes ish to remarry. They have the knowledge and gadlus to be matir an aishes ish but not to say that an eiruv is kosher?
    The way your article is written fully takes sides against the eiruv which is improper.

  6. First of all this organization is not to promote the Eiruv, it is to collect funds.
    Second Klausenburg is one of the founders of the Eruv.
    Third the Satmar Rav of Boro Park R’ Berish Meisles is for the Eiruv.
    I don’t know where you’re from but the majority of Boro Park DO rely on the Eiruv,
    and getting kids collecting funds is not “getting them involved a battle”

  7. The BP Eruv was not accepted by the gedolei haposkim, led by Rav Moshe Feinstein.

    The people behind the eruv know it is all politics. The fact that some respected rabbonim may have said it is kosher does not mitigate the chutzpah. The fact is that even THOSE RABBONIM DON’T RELY ON IT, even though they say it is halachaikally ok!

  8. Pardon my temerity in presuming to ask, but can someone explain WHY the BP eruv “has been deemed halachically unacceptable by leading poskim of this and the previous generations”, please?

  9. How smart the yetzer hora must be. These misguided people probably think they’re doing good with “azzuss d’kedusha”, not realizing how much tumah it actually is.

    Very sad

  10. The comment of #10 MUST be deleted right away. It is out right false and very misguided. The Posek hador, Horav Eliyashiv Shlita sent people here after 9/11 to gather information on the Aguna issue and gave his Psak. The Rabbonim in Boro Park who the commentor claims are the same to pasken on the Eruv is not true.

  11. To #13:
    Put your head back in the sand!

    Someone printed a joke book full of misinformation with fake haskamos including one from R’ Chaim Kanievsky Shlita, giving all kinds of kakomayne reasons why it’s a Chiuv (his words) to carry on Shabbos in Brooklyn! The situation has gotten out of control! It’s very intersting that the Flatbush Eruv R”L only has the official Haskoma of Rabbi Wosner from Monsey!

    These Apikursim had to shop around untill they found some weakling all the way in Monsey! These politician “rabbis” are apparently not afraid of Rav Moshe Fienstein ZT”L anymore! I’m sure you heard of the famous story of the person who complained by Rav Moshe’s levaya & what happened to him. These people who are pushing the eruv without any Halachik backing what so ever better watch out for their neshomos!
    Gut Shabbos to all.

  12. to # 12,
    Reb Moshe was niftar long before the BP eruv was erected.
    R’ Tuvia Goldstein of yeshiva emek halacha held the eruv was fine and one could use it to carry on shabbos.

  13. Since when is it the Jewish way to get young children involved in promoting/raising funds for a controversial project? What is it teaching them?

    Reb Yechiel Michel Stern (Reb Moshe Aaron’s ZT”L son), has written a story in several of his works, and I personally heard it from him. He heard it from his uncle, Reb Shlomo Zalman Aurbach ZT”L.

    A kannoy from Yerusholayim, who’s children unfortunately did not turn out well, came to him. He asked Reb SZ why his (the kannoy’s) children didn’t turn out well, although he’s a very ehrlich person, a yorai shomayim and a talmid chochom, while his neighbor– an am haaretz,, his children turned out beautifully.

    RSZ first told him “how can I know cheshbonos in shomayim?”. The kannoy persisted, with the same response. Finally RSZ told him, “I’ll tell you, but you’ll be upset with me.

    You would always come home after a controversy, and teach your children the right way, and how the other was wrong. You understood the difference between right and wrong very well. However, your children were unable to pick up that fine line of right and wrong. What they did pick up was that you can knock gedolim. So when they grew up, they knew they can belittle talmidei chochomim etc, and did so. Therefore, they ended up the way they did.

    “Your neighbor, on the other hand, was a simple man. All he said was ‘do what our rov said’. He never dared to disagree or belittle other Talmidei Chachomim. Therefore, his children turned out so beutifully.”

    The kannoy admitted to Reb Shlomo Zalman ZT”l that that was indeed the case!

    Think about it before you allow your children into such a “club”!

  14. I heard from somebody from a Klausenberg background the following, which should clear things up.

    It is mashma from what is written in Divrei Yatziv (sefer of the old Klausenberger Rebbe, father of the two current ones) against the eruv. His son, the Klausenberger Rebbe of BP does not carry.

    However, since R. Hershkowitz, the Klausenberger dayan, permitted it, most Klausenbergers carry, despite the fact that their Rebbe doesn’t. Pretty interesting if you ask me.

  15. The Eiruv is the best thing that was ever made in Boropark and I have been carrying ever since otherwise I would be hosed up in the house.

  16. On 9Th ave between 52ND and 60Th, the Eruv is only on the left side of the avenue, (facing the higher number streets) On Shabbos frum people are seen carrying on both sides of the ave. If the Eruv covers only one half of a street but not the other half it doesn’t seem possible that mistakes would not happen..

  17. Baruch Hashem 75% of the klal in Boro Park and 90+% of the klal in Flatbush, do not hold of or utilize the “eruv” in Boro Park or Flatbush.

  18. I live in a building of over 30 family’s all from different chassidis we all carry. My wife’s family is satmar they all carry.

  19. #26 In reply to your comment, please excuse me for saying that….we woman of a generation ago, also had children bh, and I, having grown up in Williamsburg, never saw our situation as being “holed up”. We were mothers who bh had children and going out on shabbos with carriages was not something that even entered our minds.Like any other halacha that may or may not be “so convenient”, and we have MANY…this was just a part of being a frum yid.
    Of course, bh, we are living in a generation where having to deal with inconveniences requires looking for quick ways to alleviate the “Pain”.Being “cooped” up with children these days is unfortunately one of them.Why don’t you ask someone without them, how “cooped” up they would feel?????
    well…..sorry for you that you don’t have what it takes to learn discipline (and you need a quick solution to everthing that ails you)……something that would “carry” you a long way in your life…..!

  20. More Info, #22:

    The Rebbe originally told his Chassidim not to carry. Then Reb Fischel walked into the Klausenberg Beis Midrash on Shabbos carrying a sefer.

    Many do carry, but not in front of the Rebbe. when word is the Rebbe is coming, all the carriages go into hiding.

    A real chossid follows his Rebbes directives. What has this “eiruv” accomplished, that people feel even less inclined to follow a rebbe?

  21. LL chassidem hold of the Eruv & ALL Litvisha DON’T hold of the Eruv! According to the Litvish Rabbonim including Reb David Feinstein Shlita, someone who carries on Shabbos in Boro Park or Flatbush is Michallel Shabbos & that comes along with all the ramifications of a michallel Shabbos r”l! These michallel Shabbos are just waiting for Tzoros r”l! Then they wonder why their kids are going off the derech & they can’t get Shidduchim for their children!

  22. To # 35 Awesome, you seem to have the most proper answer of these so called 39 comments, I’m a beleiver in an Eruv, but to have caused so much Machlokes, is another reason “Meshiach”, what can I tell you is having other Ideas about coming.

  23. Yitzy:

    No. Not all chasidim hold of the eiruv. That’s the folly the proponents want you to believe. The Skulener Rebbe, both Satmer Rebbes, the Viznitz, both Bobover etc directed their chasidim not to carry.

    Which Rebbes with an established chasidus directed his chasidim to carry?

  24. #20, The question had come in in Reb Moshe Feinstein ztz”l’s time and he paskened that New York City is a reshus harabbim d’oraisah and therefore no eiruv in any part of NYC is valid. This hasn’t changed, so it is irrelevant that Reb Moshe was no longer alive at the time that the BP eiruv came into being.

  25. A friend of mine who lives on Boro Park, told me that his father uses the Eruv. He explained, that his Rov is Mattir (not a little Rov!) AND he uses this Rov for ALL shailos (Koreis shailos included) and if he can rely on him for those, he can rely on him for the Eiruv.
    Beis Shammai help that Beis Hillel may have had Mamzeirim (or maybe it was vice versa-Gemara in Yevamos)
    B”H Eilu VoEilu.
    My Rov says no because its Chillul Shabbos, your Rov says its ok.
    and THAT’S FINE!!!!!!!

  26. Reb Moishe ZT”L always knew, that his best Talmud, Reb Tuvia Goldstein ZT”L, did not agree to his Psak that BP is a Rishus Horabim. Reb Tuvia followed the Oruch Hashilchon and was Matir the Eiruv.
    When Reb Moishe used to talk to Reb Tuvia re. Brooklyn being a Rishus Horabim, he would always add the words, “according to the way I understand it”, out of respect for Reb Tuvia who disagreed.

  27. What did Reb Moshe Zt”l pasken about using grape juice vs. wine for kiddish on Shabbos?

    Look it up.

    Reb Moshe Zt”l says that only a choleh (a sick person) may use grape juice instead of actual wine to make kiddish on Shabbos.

    What? You don’t like wine? Wine is too strong for you? Whetever your excuse may be, you’re picking and choosing which one of Reb Moshe’s Zt”l psaks to abide by and which one to disregard for your own convenience.

  28. This Sheila went on even while Reb Moishe Z”l was alive .
    According to Reb Moishe, Brooklyn is one big Rishus Horabim and therefore it makes no difference whether you are encircling a neighborhood, or you are closing of any street to be able to carry to a house across the Street. It’s all Osur Min Hatorah.

    The Satmar Rov ZT”L, DID let us close off streets (Bedford on Succos and Rodney between Lee & Bedford) because he held that Brooklyn is a Karmulas. The only problem he had with a neighborhood eiruv, was practical in nature; he was nervous who will watch it.

    Bobov always closed of 48 St and so did Satmar on 53 St. (following the teaching of Satmar in Williamsburg).

    The Debretziner Rov ZT”L did not hold that an Eiruv doesn’t help, but he did not want one because of Pritzus. The Voideslover ZT”L had that same Shitah.

    Reb Yecheskel Roth is actually following his Rebbe’s Shitah Reb Yoel ZT”L, that Brooklyn is only a Karmulos and therefore an eiruv, once its made, is effective.

    Reb Tuvia Goldstein Z”L, always followed the Sefer Aruch Hashilchon, who has a criterion for a Rishus Horabim, which Brooklyn does not have. Consequently, Reb Tuvia was encouraging the Eiruv.

  29. To Out of Towner – #13 and anyone who wants to understand the issues behind why the g’dolim of the previous generation (i.e., Reb Moshe, Reb Aharon, the Satmarer Rebbe, etc.) were adamant that a an eruv cannot be made anywhere in Brooklyn, and those who follow them today feel that no one in our generation is qualified to overturn their p’sak, should get a hold of the tape of a Hakhel shiur given by Rabbi Belsky, shlit”a, on May 31, ’04, titled “Recent Events: Community and Worldwide – What are We to Do?” In it he explains all the issues in depth and makes the entire subject very clear. It’s a pleasure to listen to. The tape can be obtained by calling 718-252-5274. Hatzlocho rabbo!

    By the way, Flatbush Resident – #19, the word is spelled “cockamamie” or “cockamamy” and why did you attack and degrade #13, who asked a perfectly valid and worthwhile question which neither you nor anyone else, so far, has answered? Actually the answers are much too involved for a blog. One really needs to listen to the tape.

  30. #43
    There are private shaalos and community (and national shaalos.For the private ones each person should follow his own Moreh.For the second ,he needs to follow the leaders and standards.

  31. To: Cohen

    Right, the reason why the gedolim had a problem with it, is, because, in order to put an Issur on Brooklyn and at the same time be Mattir Queens and Bronx, you have to say some very Doichikteh Chilukim. The whole notion of 600,000 having to be, ‘Outdoors’, has no M’kor. In fact the Igros Moshe writes that Toisfus seems not to have accepted that Chiluk.

  32. #54 Actualy, Rav Moshe zt”l holds that the 600,000 has to be outdoors at one time; see Igrot Moshe OC 4:87. So what are you talking about?

  33. #52

    Some of the Roshei Yeshiva of Reits had a topic on this ,and no ,there are issues that not to be decided by your private authority.
    Torahmusings.com a YU oriented site had discussion in either march or april.)

  34. To: Ben

    There is no M’kor to ‘Outdoors’. The Igros Moshe writes that the idea of ‘outdoors’ would answer a Kasheh which Tosfos leaves un-answered, and the reason is obviously because Tosfos, like all others, never accepted the idea of ‘outdoors’.

    And how do we define an Eirr(city), mentioned in the Gemoroh?, State? City? Borough? Neighborhood?

    Is Lakewood also part of the big Rishus Horabim, “The Stae of NJ”?

    Is there really any seperation between Queens and Brooklyn?

  35. To #59

    Actually your proof from the Toisfus, was already argued by the Satmar Rov Reb Yoel ZT”L. That our Derech halimud is that if Tosfos chose not to use the Sevoroh of Outdoors, that shows that we shouldn’t either.

    Without the Sevoroh of Outdoors, the city of Warsaw which factually had 600,000, and had an Eiruv, clearly proves that Brooklyn is only a Carmulos. That was the Shitah of Reb Yoel ZT”L.

  36. #59 No. Rav Moshe zt”l clearly holds that the 600,000 has to be on the streets at one time. Therefore he says that to achive this we look at an area of 12×12 mil (the size of the digalei hamidbar)and a population of about 3 million people. With this number we could have 600,000 outside at one time. Learn his teshuvos first.

  37. to No.47:

    You are perpetuating FALSHKEIT
    The Satmar Rebbe Ztzal NEVER set up eruvin on
    individual streets (i.e., with a tzuras hapeseach)They put up for him REAL MECHITZOS
    enabling him to go to the Bais Knesses;
    four real mechitzos constitutes a reshus hayachid even according to R’Moshe zatzal(other how could you even carry in your fenced
    in backyard on Shabbos.
    I really believe that people who have no clue in hilchos eruvin should refrain from commenting on this situation (akin to somebody who failed 9th year Biology expressing their opinion on a medical manner)

  38. To EM

    Beford Ave between Wilson & Taylor was all closed off with Tziros Hapesach. Rodney between Lee & Bedford was closed off with a Tziros Hapesach (no Mechitzhah).
    During the days of the Beirach Moshe Z”L, 53rd Street between 13 & 14 was closed off with a Tziros Hapesachh so they can bring the food from the empty lot across the street.
    48th between 15 & 16 was closed off by a Tziros Hapesach, and women were walking all over the street with carriges.
    In the 1940’s when they approached the Satmar Rov re. an Eiruv for the entire neighborhood, his answer was “and who will be resposible for its upkeep”.
    Brooklyn was always considered as a Karmulos.

  39. #40 Shlome Zehavi….thank you so much for your reponse to my comment. I was debating whether to voice my “true” feelings…because try as I may…that is the truth! This generation is struggling with life because they have not, or don’t want to, grapple with the hardships that we, of a generation ago, considered “normal”, or part of life. We knew life was not a bowl of cherries…and living life as a frum yid requires sacrifices…lots of them in place of “conveniences”..It’s a whole subject for discussion.Everything in life is stressful to them…if it ain’t smoothe, easy, automatic, high tech,DISPOSABLE,IT AINT FOR ME!
    Dialing a rotary phone would be cause for a breakdown!!washing diapers?…a trip to the psyche ward…assured!
    Not a laughing matter….but somewhere near the truth.
    Thanks anyway.

  40. But to clarify my personal opinion:Everyone should abide by the rules of their Rebbe…if you are looking for leeway…there is always a way to find them.

  41. #49…wow…interesting????how DID it come in?? “C”…how did you come in in middle of shabbos?????

  42. In Michalovce, Slovakia, every one carried only what was necessary for Shabbos because we had a Kusher Ayruv. One Shabbos every year announcements were made for weeks in advance that the ayruv was going to be cut for that Shabbos so that people learned about Ayruv and learned that you can’t JUST carry on Shabbos without a proper Ayruv.

  43. To #67

    Chas Veshalom to say that those G’oinim Adirum in Warsaw made an Eiruv with a Tziras Hapesach, in a Rishus Horabim. The reason why a few Macmirim didn’t carry was to be Machmir to those Reshoinim that hold that you don’t need 600,000.

    It was the Eiruv in Warsaw, that was used by Reb Moishe to be Mechadesh that the 600,000 have to be Outdoors, and that is why Reb Moishe was Mattir Queens and the Bronx.

    But the Oruch Hashilchon brings a Rayeh from the Warsaw Eiruv to be Mattir even places like Broooklyn.

  44. #71….did not mean that they were.Just responding to those that were looking for ways out of every situation that they felt was too complicated in their lives…unfortunately, I’m sure some people never researced or asked their “own” rav what to do, and were just happy that it was there….and they don’t have to “suffer” sitting inside with the “kinderlech”………….

  45. #69 Why can’t a tzuras hapesach be made in a reshus harabbim? Most Rishonim hold that it helps. Then all would agree that we can rely on 600,000 and don’t need dalsos.