Photos: Bochurim in Yerushalayim Express Their Support for the IDF

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39 COMMENTS

  1. What these “yeshiva bochrim” need to know is that nothing they can do or not do will make any difference to the fact that the anti-religious element in the Jewish world hates them with a venom – unless they become secular of course.
    Do they really think that holding a stupid sign will calm down those who love to shout about “sharing the burden”? Especially when “yeshiva bochrim” should be in yeshivah, learning…
    Now for some facts: Contrary to popular belief, nachal hareidi is not just full of OTD kids who would be on the streets if they weren’t in the army. There are over 1000 documented cases of serious bochurim, learning in yeshivah, who for one reason or another didn’t get approval for a deferral of army service. Vaad Hatzalah (run by so-called kanna’im) helps these bachurim – the government-run Vaad Hayeshivos in large part is actually the guilty party for making all the trouble in the first place.
    In the IDF, bachurim have to swear to uphold the medinah – medinah that all major poskim hold is not entitled by Torah law to exist. So by supporting the IDF, they are supporting kefirah. This isn’t just the view of the Satmar Rav. The Steipler held the same, although his conclusions about whether or not to vote in elections were different.
    The IDF today, as at the time of its establishment, is designed as a “melting pot” to absorb all the youth of the country and eliminate the “Jew” in favor of the “Israeli.”
    Don’t be deceived!

    • Would you say you are more or less impressed that Hashem has designed a world that can be defended by the liberty of the righteous and the deserving secular and religious minds of the day? Perhaps you like the intifada that wants you swimming in the Mediterranean Sea.

      Think Insight. Torah requires. You and any anti-military charedi is a total goner for Torah mind. This is just looking at the ghost of the past angry will and wondering why he did not impress his father.

      We need military and we do not need hate for our right to exist in any community we must defend.

      War is not hate for your brother who wants to serve his G-d or his fellow-man.

      Thanks.

  2. The gedolai yisroel decide who we support. Nebach on these misguided youth and nebach on us that we live in a time where everyone thinks they’re entitled to an opinion.

  3. 1 – typical american naivety. shallow superficial understanding, of a societal, cultural issue. more so a
    complicated torahdik deep understanding of all the details is needed.
    2- who is their daas torah that approved this?
    3- certainly maran reb ahron leib shlita would not approve of this public proclamation.
    4- i hope they are true (as the sign reads) “yeshiva bochrum” [ they may be, nothing written here is about them personally, there can even be a future great talmid chacham here, i wish so to all of them] but whats the definition of a “yeshiva bochur”??? [ certainly a ‘”boy in a yeshiva” does not suffice!]
    5- they may have ill feelings about the “balagan” protests , meah shearim etc. – feeling so, may be ok but the reaction lemaaseh, is of course a totally different sheylay !!!

    • “Maran” would indeed approve of the sentiment – after all, he was instrumental in setting up Nachal Hareidi, which is all about “yeshiva bochrim supporting the idf.” Government-imposed quota for last year for the number of hareidi bochurim required to enlist was set at 2000 bochurim. The number increases every year. And no, there are not 2000 OTD bochurim enlisting every year. Baruch H, there are not that many OTD bochurim. So the numbers are made up of regular yeshivah bochurim given huge incentives to enlist, financial and otherwise, or simply denied a deferral.
      Furthermore, the law as it stands today, a law voted into law by the MKs of “Gimmel” along with the others, stipulates that within a few years, if the quotas are not met, there will be NO MORE DEFERRALS. Don’t believe me? Check it out online. The information is there for the taking.

    • To all of those critical of these bochrim ,
      Just daven in certain shteiblach for one day and you be amazed how people who just want to lead a normal life and need to go to tzahal are vilified. These bachurim provide some much needed public support to these simple Yidden whom are castigated in their own “gegen” for the crime of not remaining their whole lives in yeshiva.

      • First: Unfortunately, there is no such thing for a frum Yid as “leading a normal life” in Eretz Yisrael. There is either being a frum Yid outside the army and by definition not being normal in the accepted sense, or joining the army and not remaining frum.
        Second: Those soldiers who come to certain shtiblach know exactly what they are going to face there, and that’s why they go… it’s a deliberate provocation, as anyone who lives nearby (like me) knows. How else could it be that within a few minutes of the first shouts, Yassam (the riot police) “suddenly” appears? And in case you’re open-minded, I’ll tell you that the violence is at their hands, and not perpetrated by the hareidi protesters.

  4. to the last three commenters
    you guys are sick
    and claim to know dass torah
    get back to the gemara or get back to blocking cars and singing gevald in the streets
    kol hakavod to these good yeshiva boys

    hakaras hatov is the hallmark of a jew
    its hakaros hatov for the protection the idf affords

    • Hey anonymous, just know that what you wrote is kefirah, pure and simple.
      The IDF does not protect Jews! Many more Jews have died in the medinah since its establishment than outside it. What sort of protection is that?
      The gedolim (like the Chazon Ish, Brisker Rav, etc – certainly not just the “extremist” ones) all declare that the Jews here in Eretz Yisrael exist in the merit of Torah learning.
      If i knew that a certain soldier went out to war in order to protect me, then I would thank him. But the top brass of the IDF want to assimilate me and my community and I won’t thank them for that.
      Sure, have hakaras hatov for people who think they are being moser nefesh for me. But that doesn’t mean that I need to support their shitah.

    • there you go, typically insulting those who disagree with you instead of addressing with sechel the real complicated issues here. this is not about your feelings

  5. Ok chill out
    The State Of Israel may be lousy
    But the soldier’s are just mostly nice kids risking their lives.
    The world works mostly kederech hatavah
    Moshe Rabbeinu “needed an army” (whatever that means) to fight the wars
    Probably we do as well

    • please define your term “kiddush hashem” [ the basic of n intellectual ( as r. n. weinberg taught) is to define his terms or words] . btw kiddush hashem is a halachick term.(not a feeling!) if you mean to use it another way, please say so, & how- thanks

  6. A yid – That’s not true, not all secular Israeli’s who complain about this issue are just using it to cover up hatred of frum Yidden. Many many of them truly feel it’s unfair. It’s not emesdik to paint all of them as sonei yisrael just because they’re disagreeing with you.
    “medinah that all major poskim hold is not entitled by Torah law to exist” – oh really? Who are ‘all major poskim’, the ones who agree with you?!
    And to all of you – “supporting the IDF” doesn’t mean you agree to everything about the IDF or the medinah. It just means you appreciate that these people are putting their lives in danger in order to protect you and all the Yidden in Eretz Yisrael. Sorry, but you don’t need Daas Torah to have that basic hakaras hatov.

    • I didn’t write that all chilonim use this issue to cover up hatred. Please don’t misinterpret me.
      And yes, I’m sure they do think the situation is unfair. Seeing “bochrim” standing around doing nothing is not going to make them any more excited about supporting their Torah learning…
      But just because they think it’s unfair doesn’t mean that we have to join the army. Let’s say everyone did join. Don’t you think certain elements would still complain that the religious get better conditions – time off fighting to pray, for instance? What about the opposite? What about all the cushy jobs the secular have open to them in the army, like working for the army newspaper a la Lapid? He was really moser nefesh for klal Yisrael doing that, right?
      And to clarify, “supporting” an organisation is actually usually taken to mean a blanket support. If you want to stress that you appreciate their putting their lives on the line, then how about writing, “Combat soldiers, thank you for risking your lives.” But the IDF as a whole? No way. Most soldiers are jobniks, and the top brass are totally devoted to secularising the youth of the country by all means possible.

  7. Re: the comment of “A Yid” above — To say regarding Medinas Yisroel that “all major poskim hold is not entitled by Torah law to exist” is such sheker, as there were so many Gedolim and Poskim at the time of Hakamas HaMedinah who supported its establishment 69 years ago. Even many poskim who had reservations 69 years ago, once it was formed, they pragmatically instructed people to vote (like the Steipler ZTL), in order to try to make the most positive torahdik hashpa’ah possible. Today, rubah d’rubah of Gedolim in E”Y appreciate the fact that there is a Jewish Medinah, which not only protects millions of Jewish lives in E”Y, but also, assists financially and in other ways in the flourishing of torah life in E”Y to a level not seen in a very long time.
    NOBODY would prefer to live in E”Y under Arab rule (ie. Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, etc), or even under British rule, as the British weren’t so kind to us when they ruled in E”Y. The British turned away many potential Jewish immigrants on ships who were trying to escape the horrors in Europe. They also didn’t financially support Yeshivas in E”Y, and Torah Life didn’t flourish like its flourishing under the Medinah.
    People can choose to live in the past, retaining old Sinas Chinam, or they can live in the present, and have Hakaras HaTov for all of the good.

    • Please provide names of Gedolim who hold/held that it is permissible to set up a State.
      Most of the “big names” we’re familiar with hold that it is assur – the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, the Brisker Rav, the Gedolim of the Agudah…
      They did not “have reservations” – rather, they knew it was assur lefi the 3 oaths.
      Yes, it looks like on the surface of things that life under the British was not so happy. It wasn’t amazing to be sure BUT MANY MORE Yidden have died at the hands of Arabs since the medinah was established than before…
      And one can debate the high price that has been paid for taking zionist money to be used for yeshivos etc.. What about the absolute hatred and contempt many secular have for the hareidim who “take our money and don’t contribute”?
      And don’t forget that there are plenty of Torah establishments who thrive today without taking zionist money.
      What do Chazal say about the Romans who built “us” bathhouses”? Do you really think the anti-religious leaders of the state are any better? No – they are playing a long-term game, and they are playing it very well.

      • The question shouldn’t be who did or didn’t support setting up a State. It should be who supported the state once in existence. Unless you want to live in the past that’s the only way to address the issue.

      • R. Ya’akov Kamenetsky writes in his Emes Le-Ya’akov Al Ha-Torah
        “It is incumbent on us to understand that the establishment of the state of Israel in our day, after the the great destruction and despair that overtook the remnant, and given the desperate and destroyed status of Russian Jewry, God caused the establishment of the state of Israel in order to strengthen the connection to Judaism and to sustain the link between the Jews in exile and the Jewish nation.”

      • The Silver Era, pp. 262, 274, 302:
        “Another time [R. Eliezer] Silver was in a quandary within himself and with his associates [was] regarding a Bonds for Israel dinner in his city. Every year Silver publicly supported this event and attended the dinner. In 1964 the guest of honor was to be Nelson Glueck, the president of the Hebrew Union College. Many Orthodox Jews felt that Silver should not be present at an affair honoring such a prominent Reform Jewish personality. Nevertheless, Silver did attend, since his concern for the cause and feeling of communal responsibilities won out. At the affair, when questioned about his presence, Silver declared, “How could I stay away from a dinner aiding the State of Israel?…”

        Silver also exerted his influence in the determination of Agudat Israel and Agudat Harabanim policy towards the formation of the Jewish State. Silver himself had always been in favor of such a state, despite his Agudat Israel ties. Following the Balfour Declaration in 1917, Silver marched in a New York Zionist parade in its support. When Chief Rabbi Abraham Kook visited the United States in 1924, the Agudat Harabanim invited him to adress its convention…

        Silver’s letter [in opposition to Satmar anti-Zionist activities] did not abate the course of action of the Satmar element. It did, however, strengthen the more moderate forces in American Orthodoxy. His viewpoint was widely cited in Mizrachi circles. Silver later participated in a Mizrachi conference. Afterwards, at an Agudah conclave, there were those who desired to disbar Silver. It was reported that Rabbi Kotler opposed this request…”

  8. Shmuel – Gut Gezugt!! “Sorry, but you don’t need Daas Torah to have that basic hakaras hatov” If Moshe Rabeinu had Hakaras Hatov to the Nilus and to the sand (inanimate objects), and he therefore wasn’t the shliach to bring Makas Dam and Makas Kinim, we certainly must have Hakaras HaTov to those Chayalim (fellow Yidden) risking their lives so that we can live in E”Y.

  9. First of all the army today is not a place for an 18 year old yeshiva boy. They mix female soldiers as a way of corrupting them. I just returned from israel and I spoke to quite a few frum boys who joined the army. They told me they were ridiculed by OTD fellow soldiers in the nachal chareidi. It’s all a ploy to weaken the passion for Torah observance. Now here are the scary facts.The Isrraeli army is number nine on a list of 140 world armies that are open to Toeiva lifestyles. France is numer 10 and America is number 41. You don’t know who will be your commander. We are talkin about 18 year old innocent yeshiva boys. Let’s see them draft 30 year old seasoned Torah scholars. They will probably turn the chilonim into baalei tsuvah. You can not trust the government. They release hundreds of Arab terrorists who murdered Jews and one of them who killed six Jews is now mayor of schem. In the past prime minister Barak was going to merge nachal chareidi as well as header into the general secular army. The army is an indoctrination camp and you can not trust the political leadership with your children’s lives physically or spiritually. Their word is not a word. On all fronts the government is weakening the enthusiasm for yiddishkeit. In yerushalayim alone over 225 stores are open on Shabbos. Toeiva parades are being instituted in more cities. Just two weeks ago there was the first in beer Sheva. Now you have tel aviv,Haifa,Jerusalem and Ashdod. Everyone is scared. The few dollars the government is giving its chareidi citizens,keeps everyone quiet for fear of losing this support. The reform as disorganized as they are,are winning the battle here in israel. Never before have they been allowed to bring a Sefer Torah on their Rosh Chodesh kosel gatherings. This past Rosh Chodesh Tamuz they brought five Sefer Torahs. The only women who really harassed them were a group of shawled and caped women with the vales on their faces. They acted very heroic. In the end I witnessed a chassidisha yid from boro park give them a hundred dollars each as a present. It’s time to wake up. Yerushalayim is being destroyed. The building of high rise buildings to attract secular citizens along with a multi million dollar movie center and other such gimmicks are being used to drive out frum Jews.

    • you make excellent points. unfortunately most of the writers here are UNaware of the results of the idf on religous soldiers. as the idf covers it up. we really need talented honest researchers/reporters to do interviews etc. & get the facts in the open. the problem is their employers are not interested… as it doesnt have enough public interest. perhaps a frum caring gvir is willing to hire private investigating reporters. the results may be astonishing…or not. but we really need to know, in order to best advise boys who are considering the idf!!!

  10. chillul hashem these arent the real yeshiva bachurim who want to learn because if they were real they would be learning not standing untucked in middle of a place were they shouldn’t be any way holding up a sign looking for attention. bizayon. Let the gedolim decide who we support

  11. We don’t pasken diney nifashos shailas based on some batlan bloggers. We ask and follow Daas Torah.

    • then it’s a good thing we’re not discussing diney nefashos shailas, just some bochurim holding up a sign and showing hakaras hatov

      • Wow. Shtarka come back! Man, you mamesh shtuched him out! You definitely shut him down. He’s probably in his dorm room crying. Where did you get such pickchus?

  12. first of all, it’s amazing how closed minded some of you pro-id-effers are. There’s a big world out there, with all kinds of shitos and mehalchim. a mature mind is expected to explore more than just one angle. It would do everyone well to step back and look at things from different points of view. The anti-idf standpoint is very supportable, if only one maintains an open mind.
    I will not exaust myself explaining the ideas, i don’t have a big enough audience to warrant the effort. but just wake up and see there is more than your daled amos to the world.

    also, someone mentioned that the british didn’t allow jews from europe into palistine bla bla… my advice: read ben hecht’s “perfidy”.

    • Tell me do you celebrate chanukkah? At every step of the way was chazal calling for the abolishment of the dynastic chasminiem government? cognitive dissonance? Reality tends not to deal in ideals. Stop making excuses and get over it. The Zionists were successful. Just accept it already

      • so you are making a drasha: “ma matzinu that the we celebrate chanukah even though the chashmonaim were wrong for having their gov. as chazal say, so too we should support the IDF. REALLY?! have you ever gone to a yeshiva? is that how you learn or pasken halachos?

        • Does the word tend to deal in ideals? If tomorrow the Zionists picked up shop and left.and gave the keys over to the Palestinians. Would the situation improve for the Chareidim? Would they support Yeshivas? Would they protect them Arab rioting/pogroms?

          • first of all, only Hashem knows. Second of all, Al pi derech hateva you are right, but it still doesn’t explain your ma matzinu. third of all, you are basically saying that we have no choice but to maintain an army, but shouldn’t it be a kosher army? and if the existing army is non-kosher, isn’t it the right of chareidim to abstain. also, why would they give the keys to the palistinians, why not to the chareidim? that would make much more sense, and then there can be a kosher army run exactly by halacha (theoretically, in reality the chareidim would probably just reach out to the “west” for assistance, also not a bad idea…

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