Rabbi Who Ordained Rabba to be Admitted into RCA
A Matzav report: Rabbi Joshua Maroof, credited with being one of the three rabbis who ordained Sara Hurwitz, is expected to be admitted as a full member of the Rabbinical Council of America (RCA) at a teleconference of the RCA Executive committee tomorrow, Thursday.
Rabbi Maroof announced his resignation yesterday from the pulpit of Cong. Magen David of Rockville, MD, as well as his new position as rabbi of Cong. Ezra Bessaroth in Seattle, WA. The Seattle shul made Rabbi Maroof’s appointment contingent upon his admission to the RCA. Thus, many in Seattle are waiting with a great deal of anticipation the outcome of the RCA Executive Committee’s decision regarding Rabbi Maroof’s admission into the rabbinical organization.
The decision to admit Rabbi Maroof to the RCA is both national and local for RCA President Rabbi Moshe Kletenik, whose own Seattle shul is a mere few blocks from Rabbi Maroof’s soon-to-be pulpit.
Rabbi Maroof provided the RCA Executive Committee with the following explanatory statement as a prelude to his admission:
“I spoke at the ceremony conferring the Maharat title upon Sara Hurwitz because I am an avid supporter of advanced learning opportunities for women in general and because I served as Sara Hurwitz’s halakha teacher for one year and I admire her accomplishments in particular. I knew in advance that she would be given a special degree or title at that ceremony, but I did not believe there was anything halakhically objectionable about her being granted a special title such that I would be forbidden to deliver a speech at the gathering. I had nothing to do with the conferral of Maharat title, the selection of the term Maharat, or the like, although I would be less than honest if I did not admit that I do not see the conferral of the title as a violation of halakha per se. (The ‘rabbah’ title and the ensuing controversy did not yet exist at the time.) Afterwards, Yated Ne’eman printed a sharp critique of me and others in which I was accused of championing a radical left-wing agenda, including women’s ordination. I responded to Yated that I was not actively promoting the concept of semicha for women, but rather just supporting advanced Torah Shebaal Peh study for women in general, and supporting Ms. Hurwitz, my student, in particular. I furthermore wrote that had I known that participating in the event would be interpreted as an endorsement of a far-left “Open Orthodox” agenda, I would not have consented to participate, since the support I offered was intended to be applied only to the advancement of women’s Torah learning and not to any broader ideological platform. In fact, I generally consider myself to be a center-to-right leaning Orthodox Rabbi. Yated printed an edited version of my letter and accepted my clarifications and distinctions as valid given the view (debatable in some circles) that women may study the Oral Torah. Regarding the ordination of women, while I have stated openly and I still maintain that it is not halakhically prohibited in theory, I nonetheless accept the RCA’s 2010 policy statement on this issue for all practical purposes.”
{Noam Amdurski-Matzav.com Newscenter}
40 Responses to “Rabbi Who Ordained Rabba to be Admitted into RCA”
2. Comment from chaimz
Time March 30, 2011 at 9:45 AM
In Brisk the people wanted a well-known orator to come and motivate them, as he was known to do. Unfortunately his hashkofos were not acceptable to R. Chaim Brisker. The speaker promised not to stray from the straight and narrow, only to discuss kosher topics in an accepted way. R. Chaim denied him the pulpit, saying that his kosher ‘meat’ was cooked in a traife pot.
Here we have a further breakdown of the RCA. The spoilage will now come from the inside.
May HKBH bring moshiach soon and put an end to this.
3. Comment from Minyan Regular
Time March 30, 2011 at 9:59 AM
Crying shame. Let him first renounce his misdeed.
4. Comment from kishke
Time March 30, 2011 at 10:19 AM
Matzav at the forefront again fos tanding up for what is right
shkoach gadol from the olam
keep it up
5. Comment from Bruce
Time March 30, 2011 at 10:25 AM
Uportz(ay) geder yishchenu nachash
6. Comment from Mordechai B.
Time March 30, 2011 at 11:15 AM
@Orthowatch
Rabbi Maroof is credited with ordaining Sara Hurwitz. Go to the Yeshiva Maharat website where you will find this comment in Sara Hurwitz’s bio on the “About Us” page.
“After another five years of study under the auspices of Rabbi Avi Weiss, she was ordained by Rabbi Weiss, Rabbi Daniel Sperber and Rabbi Joshua Maroof.”
7. Comment from Aryeh
Time March 30, 2011 at 11:32 AM
Gader, not geder.
8. Comment from Orthowatch.blogspot.com
Time March 30, 2011 at 11:34 AM
She can write whatever she wants. He says he didn’t. She can write that R’ Elyashiv ordained her, it doesn’t make it true.
9. Comment from Mordechai B.
Time March 30, 2011 at 12:02 PM
@Orthowatch Oh please! If Rabbi Maroof thought it was a falsehood he would have demanded that the statement be removed. Are you suggesting his own student would deny that request of her longtime instructor?
BTW: I happen to know for a fact that Sara Hurwitz and Rabbi Maroof remain on good terms.
10. Comment from JD
Time March 30, 2011 at 12:28 PM
@Orthowatch. See the teshuva he co-authored here: http://yeshivatmaharat.org/sites/default/files/spiritweb/Responsa%20on%20Women%27s%20Leadership.pdf
11. Comment from keep wondering
Time March 30, 2011 at 1:31 PM
Who ordained Rabbi Maroof?
12. Comment from Mordechai B.
Time March 30, 2011 at 1:42 PM
Rabbi Maroof is very careful in his use of words. Nowhere in this statement does he say that he did not “ordain” Sara Hurwitz.
He does say “I had nothing to do with the conferral of Maharat title”. This statment is so broad that it can mean many things to many different people. Perhaps that was its intended purpose.
Conferral generally has a secular connotation while ordination almost always has a religious connotation.
13. Comment from Chaim
Time March 30, 2011 at 1:44 PM
@ keep wondering. Rabbi Maroof was ordained by Rabbi Yisroel Chait of Yeshiva Bnai Torah (YBT) in Far Rockaway.
14. Comment from holy
Time March 30, 2011 at 1:45 PM
Rabbi Joshua Maroof’s Speech at Sara Hurwitz’s Conferral Ceremony
15. Comment from Orthowatch.blogspot.com
Time March 30, 2011 at 1:55 PM
He got his semichah from R’ Yisrael Chait, in Far Rockaway. R’ Chait received his semichah from R’ Moshe Feinstein zt”l.
16. Comment from chusid
Time March 30, 2011 at 2:26 PM
Keep up the good work matzav
kol hokovod
17. Comment from Daniel
Time March 30, 2011 at 3:36 PM
One need not be a right winger to understand that it is against Halacha to ordain women. As long as he was alive, Professor Saul Lieberman did not allow JTS to ordain women, and he authored a responsum to that effect.
18. Comment from Barzilai
Time March 30, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Rabbi Kletenik was among the closest talmidim of Reb Aharon Soloveichik and is a world class talmid chacham and a community leader of the highest quality and effectiveness. If Boro Park were like Seattle, where he is the unquestioned mara d’asra, the world would be a far, far better place.
כל ימיי גדלתי בין החכמים, ולא מצאתי לגוף טוב אלא שתיקה
19. Comment from ——-
Time March 30, 2011 at 4:25 PM
for shame!
20. Comment from Rabbi Joshua Maroof
Time March 30, 2011 at 7:37 PM
This comment thread is full of baseless accusations and speculation. The reality is simple, exactly as I stated in my comments to the RCA.
As for Mordechai B., who claims that he knows that I remain on good terms with Sara Hurwitz -what is the source of his knowledge? Since I do not know anyone by the name of Mordechai B., the only way he could possibly be privy to my relationship with Sara Hurwitz would be if he were friendly with her, which I would be curious to learn more about. Or he could be posting under a pseudonym while maligning me, which would be shameful.
This is not to say that I am on “bad terms” with Sara Hurwitz. We simply have not had any interactions of note, good or bad, in several years, beyond exchanging hellos at the semachot of mutual acquaintances.
21. Comment from Seattlelite
Time March 30, 2011 at 8:29 PM
Seriously…what is the world coming to?
As someone who grew up in Seattle I can honestly ask: is the RCA just became a little more Conservadox than it use to be…?
22. Comment from Anonymous
Time March 30, 2011 at 8:37 PM
What is takeh pshat in the RCA?
23. Comment from mother of 2
Time March 30, 2011 at 8:40 PM
Maybe I should also join the RCA, it sounds like they let anyone in.
24. Comment from Rabbi Joshua Maroof
Time March 30, 2011 at 10:09 PM
It is very sad to hear such words from ostensibly religious Jews.
Every name you hear mentioned in a forum like this, and every face whose photograph you see presented, represents a real, flesh and blood person. A Jewish person who is committed to learning, keeping and teaching Torah.
When you besmirch the reputation of a fellow Jew who is doing his best to serve Hashem sincerely, you not only harm him without even knowing him personally or giving him the chance to defend himself. You also harm his children who are unwittingly and unfairly tarnished through association with him.
25. Comment from Center for Modesty
Time March 30, 2011 at 11:25 PM
I have every intent of resigning my RCA membership over this. I truly believe that this, the dramatic change of women’s role within Orthodoxy, represents the greatest “pritzat geder” of this generation.
The RCA should have removed R. Weiss from its ranks and certainly stood firm against R. Maroof’s candidacy. Instead, the RCA would seek to admit this person as it would a “normal” candidate. What an outcry. At least let the full membership vote. I am embarrassed, I really am.
26. Comment from Brian
Time March 30, 2011 at 11:49 PM
If he is not willing to accept the opinion of the Rambam hilchos TT Beis Yosef ad loc down to Rav Moshe`s psak in YD 3:87 what will he accept?
27. Comment from Neil
Time March 31, 2011 at 12:07 AM
Instead of all of the carefully worded and ambiguous statements, I wonder why Rabbi Maroof refuses to say these six simple words “I did not ordain Sara Hurwitz”.
I think that would clear up all of this nonsense in a nanosecond.
28. Comment from MIESQ
Time March 31, 2011 at 12:22 AM
Rav Maroof,
With all respect whether it is appropriate to avail interested women committed to Torah and Yirat Shamayim opportunities to learn on an advanced level is not the issue.
There may be room in divorce matters or family purity where women are better able to serve other women However to ordain a woman is an inovation that at some level lends legitimacy the non Torah/ Halachic centered movements
29. Comment from Truth Please…
Time March 31, 2011 at 1:19 AM
What happens if the RCA executive committee decides not to admit Rabbi Maroof? Does this mean he won’t be at his current shul in Maryland or the new job in Seattle? Seems like a big gamble.
And if the RCA continues to have Rabbi Avi Weiss as a member, and they came to a compromise with the term Rabbah, and Rabbi Kletenik’s own daughter is a Rabbinical Intern at KJ in NYC, then is it that the RCA simply thinks Rabbi Maroof isn’t telling the truth about something? Or that the public think he’s lying despite his clarifications? What’s happening, really?
30. Comment from Reality Check
Time March 31, 2011 at 1:33 AM
Whoever wrote that Rabbi Kletenik in Seattle is “the unquestioned mara d’asra” has obviously never been to Seattle. It could not be farther from the truth
31. Comment from confused
Time March 31, 2011 at 2:55 AM
Rabbi Maroof, how can you claim that you didn’t know about the title when you signed a document with the maharat title on the page? Also, allowing for yorah yorah is ordination… You printed your teshuva on official letterhead. If you changed your mind, you can admit that you changed your mind and explain why. Denying that you were aware of the circumstances is false based on the widespread documentation of your very public decision.
32. Comment from beethoven’s friend
Time March 31, 2011 at 4:43 AM
I have reconsidered my idea that the non orthodox variety of ladies who CALL themselves RABBIs are not human beings that we can be fond of or befriend. They are benevolent people. Just not orthodox in their outlook. I must say that I am beginning to see the leadership in the idea of a “rabba” or a Maharat as it is now being called by the our rabbi in this article.
This is a good idea I am beginning to think. We must consider that our orthodox values must be preserved and at the same time, we must recognize that others in our faith, namely many women especially those who are not in the ‘orthodox’ circles are not feeling that their needs are served, no matter what our beliefs as orthodox jews may be.
That said, if Orthodox Judaism leads the way and confers the title of Rabba to a woman, perhaps those ladies who wish to be referred to as rabbis in the styles that are not considered orthodox judaism will follow suit.
I may say that to call a woman a rabbi, I feel that a part of my faith is forfeited. But that said, I have to say that it is a good day that we have a distinction for the persons with a yearning for a Jewish woman’s role to be as optimal as possible in the world of Jewish leadership and prayer. Thanks.
33. Comment from beethoven’s friend
Time March 31, 2011 at 4:52 AM
I wish to add to this excitement that I do not personally know if I could employ the word “rabba” to refer to a woman as it too closely resembles the word Rabbi. This is almost like a mocking permutation of a holy word and I do not regard that the idea of a “rabba” is in any sense a way that we should indeed refer to a woman who may have a higher level of Jewish learning, leadership aspirations and understanding of our entire way of life and Torah insights perhaps.
I must say that the term Maharat does not seem to irk me in any such way and I must say that this is a possibility if we do wish to consider that our women may have a need to express their spirituality in a more relevant sense to themselves and our orthodox community.
So that said, lets consider that perhaps the hand of our Creator is indeed involved in this process and be willing to accept discussion and perhaps even application in the future of this new concept in religious Jewry.
34. Comment from Rabbi Joshua Maroof
Time March 31, 2011 at 8:21 AM
The only reason why my statements appear to some commentators as “carefully worded” and “ambiguous” is because they are attempting to read between the lines and perceive a subtext that is simply not there.
What I conveyed to the RCA regarding my position on these issues, and my past and present involvement in the cause of women’s learning, is clear.
35. Comment from wondering…
Time March 31, 2011 at 9:00 AM
No, Rabbi Maroof. They are reading your own teshuvos linked at the YashovatMaharat website above. They have also watched your speech linked above where you are clearly celebrating “The special title which we will confer upon her today.”
The volume of what you have on the public record on one side of the issue, makes your declaration of fealty to the RCA position and a feel good comment about women’s learning, seem like just a bit too much political spin.
36. Comment from Very confused
Time March 31, 2011 at 9:16 AM
As someone who was present at the conferral ceremony for Sara Hurwitz, it was clear beyond a shadow of doubt, what was transpiring on that day. I find it so hard to believe that Rabbi Maroof as he states only thought it was an event to advance “woman’s Torah learning” and not Torah leadership. How could anyone ordain a woman, along with Rabbi Avi Weiss and Rabbi Daniel Sperber, and not know what they are participating in? Either this is a tremendous display of acrobatics in order to get hired or displays real ignorance and does not befit a morah d’atrah. I would much rather see an honest statement of “I ordained Sara Hurwitz, knowing what I was doing, but I was wrong and made a mistake” rather than this feigning complete ignorance.
37. Comment from Emes
Time March 31, 2011 at 10:05 AM
Here is a link to the statement made by Rabbi Maroof following the release of RCA’s position paper on women in the clergy. There is also a short Youtube video with his comments,
“Down with the Rabbis who Canonize the Arbitrary and the Rabbis who Condemn Advancement.”
-Rabbi Joshua Maroof
YOUTUBE VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyN1×379xqo
Facebook Source Page link: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113704548648503&v=wall#!/group.php?gid=113704548648503&v=wall
38. Comment from Truth Please…
Time March 31, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Rabbi Maroof, I don’t know you, but I would imagine this has gotten worse because you continue to respond. If it were a person who didn’t want to be seen as a person who “ordained” a woman and also was applying for a job pending RCA approval, I would remove facebook comments, take down the youtube video (which you posted) from the ordination, and ask Maharat Hurwitz to remove my name from her bio as having ordained her.
So my best advice is: stop trying to defend or explain yourself. It seems to be making it worse.
39. Comment from beethoven’s friend
Time March 31, 2011 at 11:42 PM
There is no commandment that I have known that a Jewish leader can not discuss religion, life and leadership with a woman of our faith. That said, we do not and need not be so callous to wish to know Rabbi Maroof’s role in the leadership discussions of Sara. I think that she earnest wants to be a human being that belongs in her mind and in her people’s lives. That said her idea to be a Jewish soul that has knowledge and trust in Hashem is not our job to criticize. Having said this, I pray that our people will move beyond the baseless narcissism that was once the reason our people were disgraced with the Second Temple’s Destruction. Do we learn from our lessons or continue heresy and foolish hatred and insolent cursed treachery in our relationships. Be a people that leads the way in the human race rather than a people bent on being inflexible with the manners that we are allowed to exist as a trust with our G-d.
We must consider the leadership of our rabbis where it is genuinely meant to be a blessing by those who are in charge of our destinies as a people.
40. Comment from Yussi
Time April 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM
He publicly regretted Maharat ordination see Matzav article July 27th 2009.
http://matzav.com/rabbi-maroof-to-yated-i-regret-participating-in-maharit-matriculation
1. Comment from Orthowatch.blogspot.com
Time March 30, 2011 at 9:35 AM
I don’t see what the big deal is. He clearly stated that he had nothing to do with ordaining her, he just supported women learning. He also said that he submits to the opinions of those above him. Isn’t that the chareidi Jewish way? To forget what you think when someone greater than you says otherwise?