Rav Elyashiv: Those Eating Hand and Those Eating Machine at Seder Can’t Be Mitztareif for Zimun
In order to say Birchas Hamazon with a mezuman, the people in the mezuman must eat together. Maran Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv shlita points out two cases on Pesach night when people eating together do not qualify for a mezuman and must say Birchas Hamazon as individuals without a mezuman.
The first is two people who eat the seder together, but one uses only machine matzoh while the other only eats hand matzoh. Despite the fact that this is only a chumrah and technically, l’halacha, each one is permitted to eat the other one’s matzoh, nevertheless, they are not considered eating together for the sake of zimun.
The second case is people who eat the seder together but each one eats their own food and they have a minhag not to eat from anyone else’s food other than their own. Here also, says Rav Elyashiv, they cannot make a zimun together.
(Kovetz Tel Talpiyos - Piskei Shmu’os Pesach)
{Revach.net/Matzav.com Newscenter}
12 Responses to “Rav Elyashiv: Those Eating Hand and Those Eating Machine at Seder Can’t Be Mitztareif for Zimun”
2. Comment from huh
Time March 30, 2009 at 6:51 PM
correct me if i am wrong but if 2 people are eating together at a table 1 eating flashigs and one eating milachigs (on separate tablecloths cant they join in a zemun why is this any different its a din in shulchan aruch that they can not share their food (even the bread)why is this differant?
3. Comment from huh 2
Time March 30, 2009 at 11:03 PM
you can be counted for a zemun even if across a street if you can see and hear even on shabbos w/o an eriv
4. Comment from Anonymous
Time March 30, 2009 at 11:23 PM
Can someone verify if R’ Elyashav really said this? I am not chas v’sholomsaying the manhig yisroel said this or did not say this but we need verification.
There have been many times that Reb Elyashav has been quoted saying things and yet when some of my relatives persoanlly went down to Eretz Yisroel to verify certain stuff Reb Elyashav said he has no idea and even went on to say he can’t control what others say in his name.
Is there anything written, recorded, video tape which shows that Reb Elyahsav really said what is being quoted?
5. Comment from to huh
Time March 31, 2009 at 12:03 AM
The one eating fleishigs can not eat milchigs, but the one eating milchigs can eat the meat afterwards. He should bethe one to be m’zamen. By Matzah, Rav Elyasiv is quoted as saying that when they both don’t eat each others food, that’s when there is a problem.
6. Comment from Avi Kolko
Time March 31, 2009 at 2:49 AM
Rav Elyashiv probably didn’t say the first psak about the hand and machine matzos.
Both people can eat hand matzos so they can be mitztaref. It’s pretty clear in Halacha that as long as one can eat the others food then there is a tziruf. (The exception is if the one person is eating something that’s assur to eat, which does not apply to machine matzos).
7. Comment from Yudel shain
Time March 31, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Machine matzos are baked these days in an oven commonly known as a “cracker-oven”. The C/O has a minimum of 3 stages of baking, 1st stage is a low temperature so as not to kill the natural yeast that causes rising-This stage is therefore called “the spring” as the dough rises to its maximum. 2nd stage is a high temperature to give “color”, the interior is still not baked at this stage. the 3rd stage is the longest stage of a low temperature the ” dries the interior of the matzo”.
The original machine matzo ovens were not designed in this fashion.
8. Comment from Yashar
Time March 31, 2009 at 9:47 AM
What r’ elyashiv did say to me once was “harbeh devorim omrim b’shmi”
9. Comment from rachamstrivka
Time April 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM
Has anyoone ever seen a teshuva being mattir machine matzos. I am looking for one.
10. Comment from to March 31st, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Time April 1, 2009 at 10:30 AM
the Rama say someone eating milachigs can not in the same sudah without benching eat meat. look in the beginning of basar bechalav. while this is not mideriosa and only a din biased on a zohar it defiantly this is a stronger din then that of one not or only eating machine matzoh.
11. Comment from Anonymous
Time April 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM
The Remo says not such thing. Read it again.
12. Comment from to huh
Time April 2, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Those who are interested, should look up the Mishne Berura 196/9.
1. Comment from D. Essenes
Time March 30, 2009 at 4:46 PM
What about two people who eat different types of matzah but “hold” of both types? My family eats both types, but my father eats hand matzah because he feels it’s better, while I eat hand matzah because it’s easier to eat. What would be the halacha in such a scenario (according to R’ Elyashiv?