Read: Letter From Rav Moshe Instructing People To Be Machmir On Chalav Stam In Areas Where Chalav Yisroel Is Available

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51 COMMENTS

  1. His heter of chalav stam would not be applicable when the FDA can not be relied upon to create a condition of “mirsus”, especially during the shutdown of parts of the government, including the dairy farmers that are not now being inspected. I do not believe a small fine would create any condition of fear or mirsus.

  2. What is the agenda here? Why is Matzav, suddenly out of the blue, publishing this letter davka now? Who is pushing this?

  3. What a chidush!
    They all say that he was מתיר חלב סתם. In fact, he was once served a coffee with milk which wasn’t חלב ישראל. When it was revealed that the milk was חלב סתם he stuck his finger into his mouth to vomit it out. He was very annoyed. The Yid who was so מקפיד on the feelings of others that he didn’t scream when his driver accidentally closed the car door on his finger lest he hurt his feelings – because, he said, how would the driver feel if he found out that he closed the door on my finger – was annoyed that he was served חלב סתם.

    • and that story was confirmed false by somebody close to Rav Moshe.
      and said its false because Rav Moshe didnt do disgusting things!

  4. Today there are additional issues with cholov Stam. Aside from the the fact that just about anything is available in cholov Yisroel version, the cholov Stam users truly must reconsider their stand on this issue. A knowledgeable LOR should be consulted to rethink if today’s cholov Stam is the same as the cholov Stam of 60 years ago.

      • larry
        because rav moshes “leniency” takes into account government oversight! if government oversight is limited or all out negligent it can call into account the actual kashrus!

  5. Rav Moshe held that there can be no Eruv in Brooklyn. You can’t pick and choose. Either you hold of everything a Rav/Posek says or nothing at hold. You can’t go psak hopping to suit your needs and desires.

    • Rabbi Nissim Karelitz may he have a refua sheleima has 6 pages in his sefer about going Rabbi shopping. It is not so simple that one can’t do it as you make it.

    • Really? You hold of one posek’s shitos for everything? Who would that be? I doubt there is one person in the entire world who does that.

  6. ה’ מרחשון תשכ”ד
    בדבר חלב הקאמפאניעס אף שיש טעמים להקל ודאי שהוא רק במקום שליכא
    חלב ישראל שהוא תחת השגחת רבנים יראי ה’ אבל במקום שאיכא חלב ישראל שהוא
    בהשגחה וכדומה כל עניני חלב צריך להחמיר וכ’ש אלו שבבתיהם נזהרין לאכול
    רק מחלב ישראל שבהשגחה שצריכין ליזהר שהוא גם מחשש ענין נדרים, וממילא גם
    בהאספיטעלער המתנהגים במאכלי כשר שיש להם לתקן מה שאפשר להם
    בזה להשיג מאכלי חלב שבהשגחה כי בפה נוא יארק ליכא בזה שום דוחק.
    ולכל הפחות ישיגו מאכלי חלב שבהשגחה לאלו שנזהרין בזה בבתיהם ולא
    לכוף אותם ח’ו שיאכלו שם מה שנזהרים שלא לאכול
    נאום משה פיינשטיין

    • So not true!
      You must be smoking something!
      I heard from R’ Moshe zt”l, that if you want a clean heart don’t have stam. And R’ Dovid salita, has repeatedly said that they didn’t drink stam!
      So you are full of it!!!!!!

      • Things are different now. Don’t be such a sanctimonious kanoiy. You don’t know what YOU’RE talking about.

      • by any chance were you a student in mtj? for mtj rav moshe encouraged cholav yisroel. that doesnt mean across the board cholav stam is fordbidden!

  7. The headline is factually and halachikally incorrect
    Chalav Yisroel is not a chumra
    The Halacha in Shulchan aruch requires chalav yisroel. Chalav stam is a heter/kula, NOT chalav stam is the standard halacha and cholov yisroel is the chumra

  8. Thank you Yisroel. Some of us old buggas remember clearly how the Gadol was revered for his impeccable saykhel, middos, and lamdanus. He had no cadre around him, to support him and impose deference. Pure sunlight, not masquerading moonlight. His expression, language and lucidity unfailingly kept him in the direct line of RSG, Rashi, and YAABETZ. In these parched times, we at least have their middos and hora’ah to fall back on. And thank you Matzav. You demolish the moonlighters in a very calm, subtle, and effective way.

    • So you trust some elteh bachur living on some farm in Manheim PA (no minyan no nothing) including Shabbos to be thee Mashgiach for thousands of gallons of milk?! I’ve seen it with my own eyes. So you really really trust these alleged mashgichim? One bachur all alone with thousands of gallons of milk??? This whole chalav yisroel thing is one big farce. There are absolutely no checks and balances. One big money making scheme.

  9. 1) In printed responsa, Rav Moshe is clear that “baalei nefesh should follow the halachah and not rely on the kulah of cholov companies.” Living in an area where it is readily available is also discussed.
    2) There is a printed teshuvah from Rav Moshe where he advises a Yeshiva/Day School to serve only Cholov Yisroel since Mosdos HaTorah should follow/teach only the highest standards.
    3) MTJ sold CC in their candy machine, but served CY exclusively.
    4) CY does not come from cows whose milk spoils more quickly than CC milk. The fact it is often not delivered directly from refrigerated trucks to a store’s walk-in refrigerator, or even left outside until the store opens in ONE reason the CY spoils sooner. Buy from a large store equipped with bays for direct delivery, and you will have longer lasting milk. Also the constant in-and-out common on families with many children and long mornings also contributes to early spoiling. And don’t store milk in doors. Place on regular shelves.
    5) Mirsus today, in general, is a very difficult thing to accomplish.
    6) I met the brother (maybe the cousin) of the person in whose house the CC was served, and where Rav Moshe removed it from himself. NOT fake news.

    • with the episode their is a conflicting narrative over the authenticity of the story
      even if Rav Moshe didnt personally hold of CS/CC. did his wife consume limit dairy intake to cholav yisroel only?

    • the problem arises when cholov stam foodstuffs are so affordable. are you saying ou d foodstuffs arent cheap? let’s say sombody enjoys milchig baked goods? go find that in the jewish stores. and then go find them priced way underprice?

  10. Are we reverting back to the time of the Tzedukim ? Cholov Yisroel ,Pas Yisroel ,Yoshon Midoraisa ? Let us be clear ,No one is trying to say that milk marked OUD is NOT KOSHER ! The world relies on the OU hechsher. Are we looking for the Kulos of the week ? If Cholov Yisroel is available ,attainable without ant unusual effort ( like traveling to another city to get it) it is clear that you are to use CHOLOV YISROEL .For some people it became a matter of principle . I want those people to look at their children ,Cholov Yisroel is the norm ,the world is realizing the Yiddishkeit is to be practiced and manifested in a more traditional way ,we have to keep leaning to the right .Remember what was before between Orthodox and Reform ,they are disappearing in large numbers.Tradition,observance,stringent Frumkeit will keep us growing,MODERNIZED orthodoxy is a sure way to annihilation .Let us go Mechayil el Choyil and not Mechayil Lechol !

    • are you paying for everyone to buy cholov yisroel baked goods? because go check the supermarket on the prices of ou d goods and how cheap they are!

    • You say we should be keeping a “more traditional way”.
      Are you aware that in Europe, most meat was not Glatt? Being makpid on Glatt is a relatively recent thing, since it’s so easily available. In Europe, you bought a live chicken and took it to the local shochet. It wasn’t checked to ensure that it was Glatt, only that it wasn’t a treifah.

  11. @The Commish
    Firstly, since when is something not being a di’oraisa reason to not adhere to it stringently?
    Secondly, the requirement to adhere to every d’Rabbonon is itself a chiyuv di’oraisa.
    Finally anyone who says, it’s only a d’Rabbonon, is mischayav b’nafsho.

    • Let me clarify,
      What I meant by my comparison is that everyone makes a bigger fuss over Cholov Yisroel and Pas Yisroel (not that they’re not important) but when it comes to Yoshon (which is medioraisa) you get a yawn and “who keeps Yoshon!”

  12. Why does Cholov Yisroel cost close to double (some places more, some places less) the price as Cholov Hacompanies?

    Why does (some of it) it spoil so quickly?

    Did Rav Moshe give a hechsher on such a massive ripoff???!!!!

    • No he didn’t.
      At least by big chalav stam companies, there is a contact phone number or email. With the chalav yisroel companies, there is no way to contact them if their product is deficient.
      And the same applies for Esrogim ganavim, oops, I mean sochrim. Choshen Mishpat does NOT apply to those that sell Esrogim. That’s only meant for other legitimate businesses.

  13. “The most lenient approach is that of the Pri Chadash (Yoreh Deah 115:15), who understands that one only needs to be concerned about chalav akum when the non-kosher milk is less expensive than the kosher variety, or it is difficult to sell. However, when kosher milk is less expensive, he contends that one does not need to be concerned that the gentile would add more expensive specialty non-kosher milk into regular kosher milk.

    On the other extreme is the position of the Chasam Sofer, who maintained that the prohibition has a halachic status of davar shebeminyan, a rabbinic injunction that remains binding even when the reason why the takanah was introduced no longer applies and that the takanah remains in effect until a larger and more authoritative body declares the original sanction invalid (see Beitzah 5a). Since a more authoritative beis din never rescinded the prohibition on unsupervised gentile milk, consuming this milk involves a serious violation. The Chasam Sofer furthermore contends that consuming unsupervised milk violates a Torah prohibition of nedarim since the Jewish people accepted this ruling. All this is true, he contends, even when there is no incentive for the non-Jew to adulterate the product.

    And there is an approach in between these two positions, that of Rav Moshe Feinstein and the Chazon Ish (Yoreh Deah 41:4) who contend that, in a place where non-kosher milk commands a higher price than kosher milk, it is still prohibited to use unsupervised milk. However, Rav Moshe understands that the takanah did not specifically require that a Jew attend the milking, but that one is completely certain that the milk has no admixture of non-kosher. However, when one is certain that the kosher milk is unadulterated, halacha considers the milk to be “supervised” and therefore kosher (Shu’t Igros Moshe, Yoreh Deah 1:47).”

    http://rabbikaganoff.com/chalav-yisrael-and-powdered-milk/

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