This is silly and so out of touch.
Yeah, and in Israel young couples make “do” with a lot less than their American counterparts. So its “easier” to get married earlier there. you can’t compare a 21 year old here to one over there.
Anyways, at 21 what “bochur” has acquired life skills and a career path enabling him to support a wife and kids?
Sorry, but Nasi misses it here
i cant believe you are posting this non factual fear mongering info that the founder has openly admitted that it was made up for shock factor we might have a issue with shidduchim but yes klal yisrael has always had tzoros and what does klal yisrael do when it has a tzarah we daven so let us stop scaring girls that they wont get married and start davening
The shidduch crisis needs to be dealt with in the nyc area.
It is a silent holocaust.
Thousannds of families are left without continuity and we lead a life which is entirely void of fulfillment.
People in their forties fifties and beyond in all neighborhhods in the metropolitan area feel as if their life has been taken from them as the silent holocaust intensifies on a daily basis,
There is no organization to deal or address this profound problem in our frum community which snowballs in to a more intense problem each day that passes.
Sure they get married earlier be quad there cousins in the USA are paying for it
This has nothing to do with yeshiva lite or not it has to do with the fact that over 10,000 of our spoiled children are there and r supported by there parents and grand parents
Whether you agree with it or not here is the main factual argument from the Nasi Project. I have spoken to him about it many times. Remember, the Nasi Project is assuming that an equal number of boys and girls are born every year (that is not the problem) here it is in basic simple steps
1) The world and klal Yisroel grow exponentially larger every year therefore for arguments sake in
2) 1990 there are 100,000 Jewish boys and 100,000 Jewish girls born. In 1991 there are 110,000 Jewish boys and 110.000 Jewish girls born. In 1992 120,000; 1993 -130,000 etc.
3) If all or most boys born in 1990 (where there were 100,000 Jewish boys born) marries a girl 19 years old born in 1993 (where there were 130,000 girls born) you are left with 30,000 single girls its as simple as that. If a 22 year old boy married a 22 year old girl then there would be no problem as there were an equal amount of boys and girls born that year. Once a boy marries a girl younger than him, then you automatically have more single girls!
4) Now I am not offering any solutions I am simply explaining the problem
#1 #2 #3 you ARE MISTAKEN. this should be promoted. chassidim in the US do NOT have this problem.
If a bas kol announces bas ploni l’ploni, that means everyone has a spouse. How does “Nasi’s” theory fit with this maamar Chazal? Are they saying that lots of Americans are marrying the wrong people (because if they’d marry at a younger age, they would pick a younger girl)?
The Eligible-Bachelor Paradox
How economics and game theory explain the shortage of available, appealing men.
To no. 1 anonymous
Its the opposite in Eretz Yisroel the parents go in debt to buy a dira which could easily be 100k each side.
STOP POSTING THIS BALONEY
Decision making is not fully developed till age 22 in the brain center therefore best to wait a bit longer.
Israeli kids grow up quicker and with more maturity than the USA entitlement chevrah.
I am a 25 year old bochur in lakewood, I learn well, am presentable, come from a good family and all that. How many shiduchim do you think I was read since Sukkos? NOBODY REDDS SHIDUCHIM. That’s the problem.
If you have in laws agrre to support you and your on Government assistance, then why not get married?
who says they don’t have a shiduch crisis in Israel?
I heard a tape from Rav Shamson Pinkus ZTL where he said that a Rosh Yeshiva told him that he has 400 bachorim of marriageable age who are not dating because girls parents can’t afford apartments.
if they do not have crisis in EY it is because they do not date. the kids don’t have a say in who they marry and can’t “drop” the other side
Nothing to do with age. Its money $$$$$$$$$
If boys were told to stop looking for money it would be the biggest help
Sorry #12 – the brain matures at the same rate in people everywhere. The differences are social and psychological, not biological. Social pressures on bochrim here (or on their mothers, it works out the same) say that “younger is better.” Since many of us are reluctant to stand up to what “yenem” says, most people looking for shidduchim for their boys will look for younger. Remember that it is not the boy himself who is doing the looking – it is his mother. You have to get the mothers on board before you can find any solutions.
How is this going to help the current 25-35 year old single girls? It just increases their fear and hopelessness….
This whole idea/concept is %100 KEFIRA!!! To think that its out of HKBH’s hands because of some silly age gap is Kofer in Kudsha Berichu! You idiots bring these Tzaros upon yourselfs with this crap! What your saying is that it got so bad, it is even HKBH can’t control it anymore! There is a bas kol that goes out 40 days before a person is born.
We don’t have a “shidduch crises”! We have a Daas/believe problem! We have a middos problem! We have a “picky” problem!
When you have a single man in his 50’s & insists on marrying a “never married before” 34 year old, you know we are dealing with IDIOTS not a “shidduch crises”!
#6 you are mistaken! Your augment cannot be “factual” as you claim- since you keep on saying “IF”. The whole premise is a hypothesis. It is wrong – makes no sense. And all should stay out of another bed. n
“7. Comment from Yossie Greenberg
Time December 27, 2012 at 1:53 PM
#1 #2 #3 you ARE MISTAKEN. this should be promoted. chassidim in the US do NOT have this problem.”
We have problems, Chassidim have problems, Modern Orthodox have problems.
Do you want to exchange your ‘pekel’ of problems for yenem’s (the other guy’s)? You know the story about that, no? They tried it and at the end each person wanted their own pekel back.
We can think about possible solutions to possible problems, but things are not always as easy and simple as they may seem at first.
There is no shidduch crises, the RSO runs the world, there is no bechira on this issue.
However, THERE EXISTS A MIDOS CRISES WHICH THERE IS BECHIRA
To number 3
To say there is no crisis is CRUEL
This crisis is our own doing.
Boys and girls age difference should be on average one year.
We must do the right thing and Daven.
To number 8
Yes there is a Bas Kol.
The boys are messing it up by NOT marrying their intended who is one year younger.
The 23 old boys are dating 19 year old girls
To number 11
It must be posted if anything is to be done.
People and leaders have their head in the sand while lives are being ruined.
To number 12
The point is to have the American boys grow up quicker just like the boys in EY
Despite the endless articles and speeches about the “shidduch crisis” and “economic crisis,” we have yet to hear the Chofetz Chaim’s solution: grow a beard!
Here is what the Chofetz Chaim says:
(published in his sefer Kuntres Tiferes Adom ch. 1)
If one lets his beard grow…one can certainly expect that Hashem will provide him with a fitting marriage partner, an intelligent and G-d-fearing woman, who will be a helpmate during his life (as our Sages say: If one has merit, she will help him), and they will be privileged to raise a generation of upright children in whom he can rejoice as they sit around his table…his marriage should be pleasant, that Hashem should provide them with their livelihood, that they should be privileged to have upright children, and that he should experience a good life with the wife whom Hashem has designated for him…
On the other hand, if one does not place his trust in Hashem and he turns from the path of the commandment, surely Hashem will not desire to treat him well.
Instead of the love and favor he hopes to gain by trimming his beard, eventually it will turn, G-d forbid, to bitterness and poison through lack of livelihood and other prevalent causes, because Hashems blessing will not rest between them.
Sometimes it will come to the point where he has to wander far away to find his livelihood, and then, what benefit does one have from this [temporary] joy?
In fact, all this is explained in the holy Torah sources, that by standing firm to fulfill Hashems commandment, one is privileged to raise a generation of upright children.
Do you really want to change to the way E”Y & Chassidim do it? Yes, marry when you are 18 & to the person that is set up for you – easy solve. But for those who actually care about who they marry it wont change anything.
#18 Let ‘yenem’ say what they want.
In my immediate family including grandparents, we have 4 sets where the women are older than the men.. All married for many years, happily and without looking over their shoulder. None of my sons wanted girls who were young, rather looked for those in their age category..
The other way around.
The girls need to stop going out so young.
The point of the picture is just to bring out the fact that boys dating younger will alleviate the problem. It is not to say that they should start dating at 21 tomorrow. Currently, boys are coming to Lakewood at an average age of 22 and 9 months which means that boys only start dating at an average of 23 because of the “freezer”. If we can gradually bring the average down, 6 months at a time, it will save thousands of girls from an igun olam. Because it will be gradual, it will give boys time to gradually get used to the new system which is all it takes for them to be mature enough to get married at a younger age. To the person who called this whole campaign kfira, about you the mishna says, “Ain am ha’aretz chosid”. If you would bother looking at the meefarshim on the gemara of bas ploni l’ploni, you will see that the NASI project is not going k’neged that gemara. I will end by quoting da’as torah in a recent kol korei regarding this issue, “As yidden who are responsible for each other, we are obligated to try our best to save them”.
THIS IS PURE NONSENSE
THEY BOYS ARE GETTING MARRIED TOO YOUNG AS IT IS
IF YOU SAY THAT A 21-22 BOY SHOULD CONSIDER A GIRL OF THE SAME AGE THAT MAKES SENSE
ANYWAY THE SHIDUCH CRISIS IS CAUSED BY ONE THING ONLY THAT IS MONEY AND NOT ALL THE GIRLS HAVE IT SO THE BOYS WAIT FOR THE “NEXT CROP”
THIRTY YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS GOING OUT THERE WAS NO CRISIS
Once again people saying that this is silly, wrong, etc. but provide no explanation. If anyone can explain to me mathematically why this is incorrect I am ready to offer up a cash prize of $100. I am tired of hearing people knock things without using their brains to think them through. Please explain what is the faulty part of this argument?
Who cares about the little 20/21 year old shnooks? It’s the 40+ year old’s that we have to worry & DO something about! The NASI program threw those old hags under the bus! Now, that’s not right!
Today, my 25 year old son was redt a shiddhuch to a 21 y.o. girl, the younger sister of someone he had been redt to 2 years ago (we were interested, they were not). This is not the first time that he was redt to a younger girl, nor is it the first time that he was redt to a younger sister of a girl previously redt. This, despite the fact that I have told shadchanim repeatedly that we are not interested in a “younger girl” and certainly no one younger than his 22 y.o. still single sister! Who is at fault here?
If you would understand advanced calculus the numbers wouldn’t scare you. It is just because you are not advanced enough that you think there’s no other way out. HKB”H has all of the number equations worked out, don’t worry no need for Cheshbonos. Oh and by the way, even with calculus it is a problem but HKBH still has it worked out.
I am a 29 year old Bochur in Lakewood. I haven’t gone out in six months! Where are all the 1000s of girls??
#13 100% correct its a shadchan issue
I am glad that Klal Yisroel is finally rising up against the whole NASI thing which is silly at best and Kefira at worst
Think of it as 2 exact pyramids, with equal quantity at any particular age level. (older at the top, younger at the bottom) If boys are taking the younger girls, there WILL be some remaining girls at the end. The smaller the age gap, the less the remainder!!
Why just noy let american gitls date until 23 then there will be no younger girls?
It is part of hishtadlus to do what you can according to the information that you have but who says that any brochure has a chiyuv altz chesed to stop learning. There can not be a rule for everybody.
I can only voice my questions in the most respectful tone.
There was a line, now in this generation we understand what the cause is. Clearly this isn’t going to invalidate last generation’s marriages but we have to start asking some hard questions:
We all know shidduchim from 20+ years ago that would never have got off the ground – heavier girls, no support, etc. Why has there been this change? Why do we have a climate now where a boy can’t say he wants to learn for less than 5 years without sounding like a bum when a generation ago those who learned full time for 5 years were by and large bound for the serious Torah dissemination and study track?
I feel that under the right circumstances, a young man should consider a same age shidduch or starting younger, but this has to be an individual decision. I think that with a resurgence of chanoch l’naar over the herd mentality, we may have another avenue to resolve this difficult situation.
It’s not only a midos issue or a shadchanim issue. If you hire 50,000 shadchanim, and if you magically correct all the bad midos in the community, it will not create more boys. There is a shortage of boys. There are many thousands more available girls than there are boys. To ignore this by saying that Hashem will solve this, and we should leave it up to Him, is not the proper Hashkofo. Hashem has always given us a certain amount of control to solve our problems. You would never say that about an illness- “I won’t bother going to doctors or taking med. I’ll just leave it up to Hashem.”
with 5% population increase so for every 100 23 yr.old boys landing on shidduch island there is 120 19 yr. old girls landing there at the same time so 20 of 120 remain without a shidduch.Now that we know this every bocher starting shidduchim at 23 his parents,ry,and rabonim are responsible for every 1 out 10 girls staying single.when it hits home the boys sister ,the ry or the rav daughter,the will know MEHORSIHAM UMECHORVIHEM MAIHEM YOTZU
to #31 – what is your response to #8?
I know of one amazing team that is tackling the “shidduch crisis” head – on. They are both professionals with degrees as well as a chashuva rav/ posek and rebbetzin – Rav Shmuel and Dr. Chani Maybruch. They meet with people one-by-one and give fantastic, tailored advice. They have a blog – http://relationshipinsite.blogspot.com/ and a website – TheRealtionshipCouple.com. I HIGHLY Recommend them. THEY ARE AMAZING!! THEY ARE REALLY DOING SOMETHING!!
i meant TheRelationshipCouple.com SORRY!
#42 – see #29 (re-posted below)
29. Comment from Caring Jew
Time December 27, 2012 at 8:52 PM
The point of the picture is just to bring out the fact that boys dating younger will alleviate the problem. It is not to say that they should start dating at 21 tomorrow. Currently, boys are coming to Lakewood at an average age of 22 and 9 months which means that boys only start dating at an average of 23 because of the freezer. If we can gradually bring the average down, 6 months at a time, it will save thousands of girls from an igun olam. Because it will be gradual, it will give boys time to gradually get used to the new system which is all it takes for them to be mature enough to get married at a younger age. To the person who called this whole campaign kfira, about you the mishna says, Ain am haaretz chosid. If you would bother looking at the meefarshim on the gemara of bas ploni lploni, you will see that the NASI project is not going kneged that gemara. I will end by quoting daas torah in a recent kol korei regarding this issue, As yidden who are responsible for each other, we are obligated to try our best to save them.
You didn’t answer the question: Are you saying that lots of Americans are marrying the wrong people (because if theyd marry at a younger age, they would pick a younger girl)?
By the way, if you want to support your point, quote a rabbi by name. Saying that you are quoting “daas Torah” is meaningless. In the good old days, not many years ago, we consulted with a rav, a posek, a mashgiach, a mentor, a rebbetzin, a morah, and they had names. We never used the phrase “I consulted daas Torah.”
#46 – there was a recent kol korei put out on this subject with many gedolim on it and just to name a few: HaRav Aharon Leib Shteinman, HaRav Chaim Kanievsky, HaRav Shmuel Aurbach, HaRav Ezriel Aurbach,
and i dont think anyone is saying that many people may not have married their bashert; i dont think anyone means that everyone till now “shouldve” married someone younger or someone else etc. to my understanding, part of “Bashert” and hashgacha pratis is not just who one marries but also when, where, etc. Sometimes we see ppl who we think would never have fit together (tall&short, slim&large, loud&quiet etc)get married and live happy lives tog and the way they met is thru some seemingly “unnatural” means- thats all part of hashgacha. Similarly, when one “decides” to start dating or what age girl to date, part of that is bechira but what the outcome is or will be may not be up to him and sometimes isnt what he planned.. so its not our “business” to get involved in Hashem’s ways and cheshbonos. we just have to do what we can to help the current situation…
re #47 You listed Israeli gedolim. What are the names of American gedolim who have commented about what you say is an American problem? I find it offensive to the American gedolim when Israeli opinions are sought regarding American issues.
re #48 I think they(you) ARE saying that. If Americans are chastised for marrying the “wrong” AGE girl, that is saying they are marrying the wrong girl.
I am not hearing guidelines as to what parents should do when their son is redt a shidduch with a girl deemed of the “wrong age” for him by Nasi, but who otherwise sounds like a wonderful girl for him. Should they reject the suggestion because of her age? Yes or no?
re #49 – r’ aryeh malkiel kotler for one – there r others I don’t rcall offhand
Re#50- No, I don’t think nasi or anyone else is speaking to people on an individual basis. They would like the roshei yeshiva and rebbetzins etc to try to have the boys date at a slightly younger age an the girls at a slightly older age, and to have shadchanim push this as well and focus more on closer in age shidduchim.. (as well as older girls which is a seperate discussion) .. But I don’t believe they are saying on an individual basis to turn down any shidduchim with a large age gap – which leads to the next thing that of course for some people their bashert may be a lot younger- no one is saying EVERYONE has to be very close in age ..nor that whoever previously married someone a lot younger than themselves married the wrong person ch”v. (and it’s not me, it’s “them”- I am not affiliated at all; merely familiar with it)..