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Tragedy in Connecticut: Crash Claims Lives of Bochurim Daniel King and Eli Schonbrun z”l

Monday November 7, 2011 8:27 AM - 85 Comments

candle-small5[Video below. Levaya info below.] It is with great sadness that we report the passing of two yeshiva bochurim in a crash in Western Connecticut. Eli Schonbrun z”l and Doniel (Dani) King z”l passed away when the van in which they were riding rolled down an embankment along Interstate 84 in Danbury, Connecticut.

accident-connecticutThe 1998 Ford Club Wagon, which was carrying nine other bochurim as well, went through a guardrail and rolled down an embankment.

The bochurim were returning to their yeshiva, Yeshiva Ateres Shmuel of Waterbury, which is led by its rosh yeshiva, Rav Ahron Kaufman.

The accident occurred shortly after midnight.

Eli was 16 years old. Doniel was 15. They were both residents of Flatbush, Brooklyn, and both attended elementary school at Yeshiva Tiferes Yisroel of Flatbush.

Umacha Hashem dimah meial kol ponim.

Click below for video at the scene of the tragic accident:

Get the Flash Player to see the wordTube Media Player.

Updated, levaya info: The levaya of Eli Schonbrun will take place at 2 p.m. at Shomrei Hachomos Chapels, located at 4218 Fort Hamilton Parkway, at the corner of 43rd Street. The levaya for Dani King will take place 3:15 p.m. at Shomrei Hadas Chapels, located at 3803 14th Avenue, at the corner of 38th Street.

{Noam Amdurski-Matzav.com Newscenter}

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85 Responses to “Tragedy in Connecticut: Crash Claims Lives of Bochurim Daniel King and Eli Schonbrun z”l”

1. Comment from BW
Time November 7, 2011 at 8:54 AM

boruch dayan emes./ what a tragedy. it never seems to end

bilah movess lonetzach

2. Comment from Trying 2B Better
Time November 7, 2011 at 9:36 AM

Two Yiddishe neshamos R”L.
Grieving Parents and grandparents, R”L.
Shocked & distraught “young” friends! So, so sad!
And where were they going??? Back to the koslay Hayeshiva!Oy Oy Oy!

If my memory serves me right, didn’t the Schonbrun grandparents lose a child in a car accident some 25 years ago? How do people go on? Mi Sh’Omar L’Olamo Dy, Yomar L’tzarosaynu Dy!!! Genug Yiddishe Korbanos!

3. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 9:38 AM

Hashem yeracheim.

4. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM

There are R”L many traffic accidents, these days, where R”L the lives of young children and Bochurim are being claimed.

The reason for these innocent Korbonos could possibly be R”L due to the lack of Tznius in Bnos Yisroel, which must be rectified.

From “Modesty - An Adornment for Life,”

“Basing himself on the Ramban, who establishes the principle that ‘Punishment is meted out in the place where sin occurred,’ the Steipler Gaon ZT”L said that the reason for the terrible Midas HaDin on the roads is that nowadays the roads are the prime places where much of Pritzus occurs. The Pritzus involves women who do not dress correctly or cover their hair properly, and men who look where they have no right to look. Therefore, the Midas HaDin has chosen the roads and streets as the appropriate place to punish.”

To those who C”V deny the above as a possible cause, I hope that IY”H we don’t have to pay with more Korbonos, C”V.

5. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM

This is the second time that a car crash has claimed the life of a bochur in the Waterbury yeshiva. Shaya Twerski was killed in March 2003.

Hashem should have rachmnonus

6. Comment from alteh-bucher
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM

Just horrible.

I am numb for all the tragedys we already had just this year,

A. B.

7. Comment from Waterbury talmid
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:19 AM

All of us are beyond words. We have been plunged into sadness. Two special neshamos plucked from our midst.

8. Comment from Cheshbon
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:39 AM

I am devastated. Boruch dayan emes. we shouldnt know anymore tzaar

9. Comment from #2
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:44 AM

how do u know that the accident happened because somebody fell asleep at the wheel. Maybe something else happened. Either way its what hashem wanted and it doesn’t matter how it came to be. May we only have simchas.

10. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Other kids were:
Mayer aryeh Leibniz ben peril hindel
Yesroael ben nachamel matel

11. Comment from Jesse
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:55 AM

HOW terrible. Driving back to NY from Montreal this past summer, somewhere on the NY T-Way I realized that I was in a semi catatonic state when I found mysself talking to George Nory. I am sure the driver dozed off for a few seconds. That’s all it takes. Please be careful and more careful.

12. Comment from Saddened
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:16 AM

These two korbanos went to Yeshiva Tiferes Yisrael in Flatbush as children. That yeshiva has suffered so many blows of this nature! They must be so bereaved!

13. Comment from lakewood rabbi
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Nebach!
BD”E

14. Comment from Moishela WAKING US UP
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:40 AM

BS”D
A message from Moishela
A handicapped child
Daled Chol Hamoed Sukkos 5772
Oct 16’11

PREPARE YOURSELF THIS MINUTE for WHAT IS COMING

I will just repeat some of what I have said already, but I also want to emphasize it strongly.

We are soon going to be in a raging war. The war has already begun. The world economy is going to crash, not fall; crash. Its already sliding down at the speed of sound. While the world has become more and more chaotic with very lively and violent demonstrations in almost every country of the western world and the Arab world and China, Russia everywhere.

We here in Eretz Yisroel are still strolling around leisurely buying falafel, ice cream, and the likes, planning our trips to America to Europe etc. True many people are feeling here in Israel the economic pinch, but still we are generally trying very hard to be oblivious to what is happening in the world. The Jewish population of Europe and America is using the same type of “head in the ground” Shita, just not to admit that this superficial world that they have built out of materials that are not able to withstand the Truth is about to fall and disappear into oblivion. They refuse to admit that the life of endless Bar Mitzvahs endless expensive Gashmiusdik weddings endless shopping, shopping, and more shopping, endless stuffing themselves with foods in restaurant after restaurant is almost at an end. Not just that, we are entering a time of deprivation, a time that will herald in the end of the world as we know it.

If you feel depressed by what I am saying, you will feel even more depressed if you don’t prepare yourself this minute for what is coming. This minute. I repeat again. Prepare yourself this minute for what is coming, because its coming very soon.

You will not have anyone or anything to depend on. Not your Social Security, or your Bituach Leumi, not your pension in any country, not the almighty dollar. It will be worthless. Not the Sterling, or the Euro, or the Yen or any currency. Gold will be extremely valuable, but how much gold can you carry around, and how much gold can you be sure no one will steal from you? Tzva Hagana L’Yisrael (the Israeli Defense Force) will be in shambles. The Knesset with all its evil and lying politicians will disappear. The medical profession will crumble. Will we have the basics in our houses like water, electricity etc.? That we’ll have to wait and see. I doubt it. We will be totally dependant only on Hashem, which is the true reality always. We’ve become so dependant on the lies that people have told us. We trust only the banks which will fall, the insurance companies which will fall, in our cell phones which won’t work, in electricity which will disappear, foods once easily gotten which will be much more difficult to get, and it goes on and on. We’re a stupid society that put all of our eggs in
one basket. For example what is the world going to be without electricity? How will the modern world survive? How can we live in a world that everything is based on electricity? Absolutely ridiculous!

Am Yisrael COME BACK TO Hakodosh Boruch Hu. He is Hakol Yachol, not the electric company, and not Bezeq or ConEd, and not any other company. Only He, Hakodosh Boruch Hu, the Ribono Shel Olam, the Ruler and Creator of the world and all that exists, and when you learn to depend on Him you can never be needy of anything. He creates it all. He created us, and all the worlds and everything that exists and with Him we can always be sure that our needs will be met. Bitachon in Hashem, my dear Yidden thats what will save you. You better get your act together, because if you don’t you will be doomed to oblivion, Shelo Naida.

SO AGAIN I BEG all those Yidden who are living in Chutz Laaretz, try your hardest to make your way here. If you cannot do that be sure that you make your way to Hakodosh Boruch Hu and for those who do make their way to Eretz Yisroel, I suggest you do Teshuva very quickly. Start this minute. You know your Aveiros. The biggest Aveira of this generation is the lack of Kedusha. The Kedusha has almost disappeared from Jewish life, almost, Boruch Hashem not completely. The Jews are confused and do not for the most part know what Kedusha means.

We built a community, a Frum community not based on Kedusha at all. Only a flimsy structure that once was the base of our Kedusha. Once we were the shining example of holiness, holiness in dress in speech, in thought in every way but now we’ve become dirtied and sullied by the Goyisha world. We’ve taken pride in making a Jewish community, so-called Frum community that looks like Goyim, that acts in many instances like Goyim. What can I tell you? We must do Teshuva. We must, must, must do Teshuva. If you don’t do Teshuva before you come to Eretz Yisroel, or at least be in the process, your coming will have no meaning. And those who cannot come now at least come close to Hashem and trust Him and get rid of all the Gashmius that you can that’s not absolutely necessary, and if He sees, so to speak, that you trust in Him, that you believe in Him, that you accept Him as Hakol Yachol, then you too will be saved.

Am Yisroel, its over! The Golus is ending and with it the world. The world of Sheker that we’ve been living in since the first man ate from the Tree of Knowledge, since the Nachash (snake) twisted man’s thoughts and had him eat from the tree, the Etz Hadaas. So please take my words seriously. They are truth!

15. Comment from ajew
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:52 AM

who is the father of Eli Schonbrun?

16. Comment from moshebenyitzchok
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:57 AM

There are R”L many traffic accidents, these days, where R”L the lives of young children and Bochurim are being claimed.

The reason for these innocent Korbonos could possibly be R”L due to the lack of Kovod Bais Hamedresh which include both talking during davening and krias hatorah and the KIDDISH CLUBS which must be stopped

17. Comment from Missouri Tiger
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:57 AM

Perhaps all that associate with Orthodox Jewry should make an effort, starting right now, to be scrupulously honest in all business transactions with Jews and non-Jews, and to be a true Or L’goyim in the ways of ethics and morals. We also need to stop disparaging non Jews, for we can’t show them the way if we are demonizing them.
In this way, we can honor these children, and make something good come from this tragedy.

18. Comment from anonoymus
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:07 PM

What type of Teshuva are we required to do

both as a Community and also as an

Individual????

(Just to mention that today is the first of the B’hab (Monday -Thursday -Monday )fasts, which however due our weak physical state is no longer practiced or encouraged).

19. Comment from qsman
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:08 PM

The reason for these innocent Korbonos could possibly be R”L due to the lack of common sense amongst some in Klal Yisroel, which must be rectified. Once we establish that the van was being driven responsibly by someone wide awake and experienced in driving large vans, and there was a excellent reason for these bochrim to travel back to Yeshiva @ 12:30 AM for a week of shtark learning, then let’s talk tznius. This is not the first time we’ve seen such accidents.

20. Comment from Friend
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:12 PM

I knew Eli personally and please try to take
upon yourself to learn/ daven/ or say tehillim for his zchus. Baruch Dayan harmed

21. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:15 PM

the tears dont stop coming. So so sad

22. Comment from truth be told
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:16 PM

Hashem send nechama to the families.

23. Comment from brazil shliach
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM

All tzoros are “chevlei Moshiach” as labor pains before birth,so are the tzores of klal yisroel before moshiach comes, Hashem should have rachmones on us and turn all those tragedies into happiness, BIMHEIRO BEYOMEINU , OMEN

24. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:35 PM

I remeber when Shaya Twersky, another bochur in Waterberry Yeshiva, was tragically killed in a car accident as well. It was a terrible tzaara for the community and yeshiva. This too is such a tragedy and the community and yeshiva should once again have koach and only see simchas and yeshuos.

25. Comment from Rachmono Litzlon
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:37 PM

Boruch Dayan Emes!

wasnt there a Yanky Shonbrun who lost a son nebach in Lakewood Yeshiva about a year ago? Is this not the same family?

Hamokom Yenachem….

26. Comment from !!!
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:39 PM

I cant take this anymore!

27. Comment from !!!
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM

Can people please refrain from giving reasons the second something happens and try and at least show some feelings.

Maybe tomorrow you can give us your reasons for the tragedy. But today (before the kevura!) the right thing is commiseration.

(oh, maybe it happens because people are failures at bein adam lchaveiro)

28. Comment from Friend
Time November 7, 2011 at 12:46 PM

I knew Eli personally I beg of all of you please try to make time time and take upon yourself to learn or daven for his zchus.
Baruch Dayan haemes

29. Comment from Reuven
Time November 7, 2011 at 1:01 PM

To #4 (Question for You Time)”
Are you out of your mind?!
Pick on tzniyus now?!
what about talking during davening?!
or the lashon hora?
maybe it’s excessive luxuries?
who knows?!

30. Comment from RAM
Time November 7, 2011 at 1:29 PM

Our job now is to console the mourners. Later, the police report may indicate practical ways to prevent such events in the future.

31. Comment from member of klal yisroel
Time November 7, 2011 at 1:40 PM

Baruch Dayan Haemes. Its so, so sad.
I wonder how much longer Klal Yisroel can go on like this.
May the families of Daniel and Eli find comfort and may we share in the coming of Mashiach iyH very, very soon.

Umuchuh Hashem Dimuh Mayal Kul Punim.

32. Comment from Halb
Time November 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM

To #14:
You keep spewing the same drivel! What is your real agenda?

To #26:
Really? So what are YOU planning on doing?

Rabbosiy, please!

33. Comment from to # 4 and # 29
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:07 PM

First of all nobody is out of their mind. Second of all I think that all of the above reasons apply and post # 4 only focust on one of the reasons. I was personally very inspired by post # 14 so each to his own feeling. Most important that every Jew turns to Hashem and does Teshuva all the way.

34. Comment from to # 27
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:10 PM

I see your point but I am sorry to say that by tomorow after Kevruah it will all be forgotten, who speaks or thinks on a daily basis about Leiby z”l ???

35. Comment from Phil
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Oooh! So many nevi’im frequent Matzav!

It’s lack of tzniyus; no, it’s kiddush clubs; no, it’s… Oh, that’s right, nevuah in our times is given to shotim!

Instead of making foolish pronouncements, improve yourselves where your own faults lie and stop pointing fingers at others!

36. Comment from horowitz
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM

bde–we obviuoly do not know the reasons for these horrible events.if you wish to be misaken something in your life please do.however we do not need everyone in the whole computer world casting aspertions on the holy calal yisroel

37. Comment from anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:37 PM

#29…how about cell phones ringing in shul,texting in shul…dishonesty in business..how many times have I been to store that was supposed to give me back 2 cents, or maybe l penny and they didn’t…in a year to a million customers, go figure…how about overcharging on everything, from rents to schar limid..sucking everyone dry…how about throwing our children out of schools and yeshiva…because they are not “Metzion”..how about a smile to our neighbors…how about a million things….BUT IT’S ALWAYS THE WOMAN…ALWAYS…
For now…sympathy…empathy…for later, each one has to figure out what he needs to do…instead of figuring what the other has to.

38. Comment from geulaisrael
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:41 PM

The Schonbrun family are exceptional pple. Torah’dig, tzanua, and have gone through a lot. Mrs. Schonbrun lost her sister a mother of 8 to a tragic accident a few years ago. Her father a well known rabbi in flatbush was nifter way to early for his age too succumbing to cancer. This is too much to bare. Hashem has to bring moshiach. We must work on Torah, Tefilla, Yiras Shamayim and Achdus…

39. Comment from freind
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:43 PM

boruch dayan emes

40. Comment from Reb Hershel
Time November 7, 2011 at 2:44 PM

To #4
The Gemora says that the very first question that you will be asked in Shomayim is whether you were honest in business. Not did you keep Shabbos, not did you eat only kosher, not even if you fasted on Yom Kippur. Why do you always pick on the shorcomings of the woman? Could it be it’s because of our lack of honesty in business? Maybe we men talk during davening? Stop blaming Tznius and stop blaming the women for our Tzoras. It’s everybody’s responsibility and everyone’s fault.

41. Comment from to the Schonbrun and King families
Time November 7, 2011 at 3:34 PM

tehei nishmasam tzerurah betzror hachayim.

We are all with you at this time. We are your brothers and sisters.

42. Comment from Ich kler
Time November 7, 2011 at 3:34 PM

Its sad that the women always get the blame. Women having to be conscious of their dress every second of the day. And so its almost ridiculous that men should be judging them. Women should not be judged by men! Men have no clue how hard this nisoyon is. Everyone should judge themselves, finger pointing is totally the atsas hayetzer! We all have things to improve, and we all know very very well what they are. Lets start working on them right now, for the zchus of the nifturim.

43. Comment from Reuven
Time November 7, 2011 at 3:48 PM

It reminds me of the man who rear-ended a van packed with school-age children being driven by a woman.
He jumped out of his car, ran over to the bewildered woman driver of the van, and began screaming how it MUST BE her fault! She MUST NOT BE A TZANUA!

44. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM

It’s not only the women at fault. When a girl or woman is not dressed tznius, her father or husband is equally responsible for allowing her to dress like that and to go out like that.

So, QuestionForYou (#4) is absolutely correct. And the fathers and husbands are equally a fault, and must insist their holy daughters and wives always and only dress tzniusdik.

In that zchus may Klal Yisroel suffer no more tragedies.

45. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:05 PM

To #40

I HAPPEN to be a Frum woman, and I wrote that lack of Tznius is a POSSIBLE cause.

The Vilna Gaon ZT”L said that what the Mitzvah of Torah Learning is to the man, the Mitzvah of Tznius is to the woman.

R”L I see Frum married women who wear long Sheitels halfway down their backs, who don’t look like married women;

Frum women who wear short, tight, dresses and skirts, stiletto heels, red fingernails and toenails. Pregnant women who wear tight tops and dresses over their bellies.

Is this the way a Jewish woman should look?

In a letter written by the Chofetz Chaim ZT”L in 1924 CE, he quoted the verse, “For Hashem your G-d walks within your camp to save you, etc. He shall not see Ervah with you lest He withdraw from behind you (Devarim 23:14-15).” The Chofetz Chaim points out that the verse states that when there is Tznius, Hashem is between us and extends us His special protection; whereas where there is Pritzus and Ervah-related behavior in our midst, R”L, Hashem turns away from us (V’Shav Me-acharecha), and we remain totally unprotected. The Chofetz Chaim then stressed that the great sins of dresses with short sleeves, cut-out collars, and uncovered hair are the reasons for the lack of protection and Divine intervention on our behalf (Chofetz Chaim Al HaTorah, page 322). Later, he adds that for no other type of sin is there a reaction of “V’Shav Me-acharecha; I will turn away and abandon you,” R”L.

So lack of Tznius may be a POSSIBLE cause of these tragedies, in addition to other causes like people talking in Shul, etc., which was revealed in a dream to the Tosfos Yom Tov ZT”L as being the cause of the massacres of Jews in 1648-49 CE.

Not liking the truth is not going to make it go away. Do you want to argue with the Chofetz Chaim ZT”L and the Steipler Gaon ZT”L (per #4? Do you know better than they do?

Are the Chofetz Chaim ZT”L and the Steipler Gaon ZT”L “picking on women” ?

If people drive recklessly, and C”V we are not under Hashem’s protection, our very existence becomes extremely precarious.

46. Comment from simple man
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:10 PM

The greatest thing you can do now for the Boys A”H who passed away is to do a mitzvah in the memory

1. give some tzedakah
2. learn a mishna
3. say a perek of thillem

etc etc

47. Comment from ce
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

those who said it might be related to the tznius are preaching to the choir. Most people who are basically tzanua are taking on chumras. Those who are not fully tzanua, I am not sure how many will take on more. How about Ahavas Yisroel? It starts with us, because we really can offer mitzvos to others but we can’t force the ones who want to stay as they are for whatever reason. These pure neshamos were lost because they were claimed. By blaming people for the tzanua issue (which is sadly a huge issue), it may not accomplish as much as ahavas yisroel. When some troubled people are rebelling, it is often because others around them have not gotten enough love or enough support and this is something that you and I can do. Wishing nechama to the families. We all lost these precious neshamos, it is the loss of Am Yisroel, and it hurts.

48. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:23 PM

Thank you #44.

I forgot to write about the responsibility of the husbands/fathers to ensure that their wives/daughters are dressed Tznius-dik.

So it’s the responsibility of BOTH the men and the women.

49. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

It’s also the responsibility of the mothers to teach their daughters to be Tznius-dik and to be role models for them.

Hashem gave all of us Sechel. We should know enough that even if a garment is “the latest style,” we don’t wear it if it’s not Tznius-dik.

50. Comment from Ben Torah
Time November 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

The Chofetz Chaim (Chofetz Chaim Al Hatorah pages 322-324) said that many of the tzarus which happened in his day were due to wide-spread laxity regarding hilchos tznius.

51. Comment from Reb Hershel
Time November 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

To #45,
Since you used the term ‘Possible Cause” I cannot argue with you. We just don’t know the cause. To say otherwise is claiming to know the ways of Hashem. There were periods of Jewish history and certain towns where all the Jewish women were Tzinus. Tragedies still occurred. We have no explanation. What bothers me is when we try to blame A because of B. That’s nonsense. Since you mentioned the Chofetz Chaim ZT”L, I will also tell you a story. When the great Chofetz Chaim was told in 1920-1923 that a great earthquake had killed many people in japan, he started crying. When asked why he replied that when tragedies occur it’s a sign for Jews to do Teshuvah as we were spared. He didn’t say, there is too much talking during davening, or because of lack of Tznius, or because of Loshon Hora. He just said,” We all have to improve our ways” We all have to do Teshuvah. A true Gadol never says A happened because of B. That’s the correct way to approach this. Don’t attempt to guess Hashem’s ways.Hashem even told Moshe Rabbenu, my ways are not yours. If you want to write that each one of us should pick one area to improve, I will support you. When you start guessing and choose one “possible reason”(Tznius) I will criticize you. Have a nice day.

52. Comment from Phil
Time November 7, 2011 at 5:14 PM

QuestionForYou:

Now it’s talking in shul also?

Yes, the TY”T, Gaon and C”C are 100% true but YOU have no right to make pronouncements ascribing possible causes to tragedies.

We do not have nevuah nowadays and you doing so is wrong and insensitive. Worry about yourself!

53. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 7, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Any1 know the names of the boys? For tehilim?

54. Comment from 1234
Time November 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Any1 know what’s the boys names are so I can say tehilim for them?

55. Comment from eli
Time November 7, 2011 at 6:28 PM

#14, you are not to be taken seriously. If you were to have said that everyone must do teshuva as we have been given sign after sign and the only way out is to return to Hashem, that would have been acceptable. But when you start with the prophecy that the world is going to collapse and there will be no electricity and no money, then you are sounding like a clown. Noone knows the future. The last prophet was 2000 odd years ago. When you start spewing your doom and gloom, it re enforces that you cant be taken seriously. If our true Gedolim dont come out with your nonsense then there is reason to believe you are a nut job

56. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 7, 2011 at 6:45 PM

People should not misquote me.

I never said that I am a prophet. I never said that I know for sure what the causes are. I never said that I am a perfect person.

I QUOTED GEDOLIM ZT”L as to a POSSIBLE cause of these tragedies of young children and Bochurim getting killed R”L in traffic accidents. R”L There seem to be a lot of them, these days.

The “Talking in Shul” was initially mentioned above by #40, not by me.

Asking people to do Teshuvah for a cause is not wrong and insensitive.

Continuing an Avayra is wrong and insensitive, as innocent people may become Korbonos to atone for it, because Hashem withdraws his protection from us.

What happened to “Kol Yisroel Arayvim Zeh LaZeh?”

Not liking what I’m saying is not going to change the truth.

57. Comment from WAKE UP
Time November 7, 2011 at 7:26 PM

this is a BIG WAKE UP CALL FOR TESHUVA theres been so many tragedies recently its horrable so many bochurim in my yeshiva knew these kids from camp.

58. Comment from dudu
Time November 7, 2011 at 7:53 PM

The Talmeidi Chachomim in the respective

neighborhood(s) where this tragic loss

occurred should make a gathering for both men

and women to discuss the event and also what

we as a a community, and also as individuals,

should focus on, in memory of the young

niftarim Zichronim l’vracha.

Quoting(from) previous Gedolim is meritorious

however we have to hear from Unzer Talmeidi

Chachomim on this tragedy which has befallen

us.

Vhu Rachum Yechapayr Owvown etc….

59. Comment from sheva
Time November 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM

Tznius is a real issue for Klal Yisroel. It is independant of this tragedy - as we as humans cannot possiblt make this correlation. I however, as a well dressed woman myself, recognize the tremendous challenge, as well as the responsibility it places on us. The eznius today is abysmal. Just today, I attended an event. horrific. most woman wear things that are too tight and too short,etc. May each woman have the strength to present herself like a queen and not the opposite. In that zchus, we should have yeshuos.

60. Comment from JASON
Time November 7, 2011 at 8:03 PM

I KNEW BOTH OF THEM VERY WELL..BOTH SIMPLY AMAZING GUYS AND AMAZING FREINDS

61. Comment from Tznius 100% the Problem
Time November 7, 2011 at 8:15 PM

If one looks around we’ll find that Klall Yisroel are basically putting much effort into Chessed Not speaking Loshon Hora etc. but Tznius is much to be desired at this point and time.

Lets be honest and call a spaid a spaid most of us dress when we are outside i.e. work shopping weddings etc. why? we know that we attract attention…. etc. so in order to avoid more Tzoras lets change our way of dress like short and fitted…..

62. Comment from annoymos
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:10 PM

to # 4 MAYBE ITS BECAUSE OF YOUR BITUL TORAH DO SPEND ENOUGH TIME ,LEARNING KESHOIT ATZMECHO VEACHAR KACH KESHOIT ACHAYRIM

63. Comment from SCARY
Time November 7, 2011 at 10:20 PM

We really don’t know the reason why any tragedy happens but we do know that we have a lot of things to fix.

How about all those who watch tv and movies stop doing so? I think that tv and movies (non Jewish you tube videos, music videos as well…)

64. Comment from the other side
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:15 PM

all i have to say is why do u all think your smarter then REB ELYASHIV SHLITA, WHEN THERE WERE BOMBS IN ISRAEL AND ALL KINDS OF TZNIUS ORGANIZATIONS CAME TO HIM TO SIGN THAT THE BOMBINGS ARE A RESULT OF TZNIUS PROBLEMS , HE REFUSED TO SIGN AND SIMPLY SAID EVERY ONE KNOWS WHAT HE OR SHE PERSONALLY HAVE TO BE METAKEN IF WE WOULD ALL DO THAT THERE WOULD CERTAINLY BE MUCH MORE GOOD IN THE WORLD.

65. Comment from A Person
Time November 7, 2011 at 11:17 PM

People it’s such a tragedy. Please please PLEASE don’t argue here. You’re more than welcome to take your discrepancies somewhere less sensitive and emotional. Thank you for understanding.
Baruch Dayan Emes

66. Comment from Tehillem Names
Time November 8, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Please daven for yoel ben bracha ahuva(a friend of mine).
One of the boys in the van that needs a refuah shlaima.

67. Comment from anonymous
Time November 8, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Do you really think Tznius had anything to do with this accident? Especially at night when a person couldn’t see a thing on the road, except lights at 12:30 at night?

the community needs to give the families of these bachurs support, davening, closeness and everlasting memories. do we really have the answers of why Hashem took them?

68. Comment from confused
Time November 8, 2011 at 8:13 AM

Stuff happens-and when it happens we “look” for reasons? We have so many conflicting concepts in our tradition. we have concepts of Gilgul of Maaseh Avos of Shilashim V’Al Rebayim (meaning going back to previous generations), we have how communities and individuals impact on one another (Tzadik Bah L’Ir), and so many other ingredients. We all know of the least observant person who excels and succeeds in many of the pursuits we “think” means “success” and we have the opposite-situations of very observant ones who live lifes of travail. We can see great people perish at early ages and lesser people meet their ends when in their upper years. Let us all realize that the Lord is in Charge of The World. The easiest person to give Mussar to is Someone Else. The writers posting comments about Tznius might be the biggest failures in Bein Adam L’Chavero or Shalom Bayis or being Dan L’Kaf Zchus and those who need repair in their Tznius could excel at those very same things. DO WHAT YOU CAN and When You Can. The Lord is In Charge of The World.

69. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 8, 2011 at 8:15 AM

#67 I wrote that lack of Tznius was a POSSIBLE cause. I don’t know if it actually WAS the cause.

Do you know for a fact that lack of Tznius was NOT a cause? There are no coincidences in this world. The van could, just as easily, have arrived at its destination safely. Does every single person who travels on that road at that time of time have an accident?

If R”L lately, we seem to be losing SO MANY young children and Bochurim to these car accidents, and if the Gedolim ZT”L cited lack of Tznius as a POSSIBLE cause, because Hashem removes his protection from us,

shouldn’t we all, as a Klal, try to do our best to do Teshuva?

If R”L so many of these tragedies are happening to Klal Yisroel, we have to ask ourselves why, and do Teshuva. Have Rachmonus on the young innocents.

70. Comment from Phil
Time November 8, 2011 at 11:10 AM

QuestionForYou:

YOU have a problem, maybe even a tzniyus problem.

Get help. Quick.

71. Comment from Chazal
Time November 8, 2011 at 12:07 PM

Shabbos Daf 33

* Ba’von nivlos peh - for the sin of nivol peh
* tzoros Rabbos - many tzoros
* ugezieors koshos mischadshos - new types of decrees
* U’vechurey soneiy yisroel miesim - BOCHURIM ….
*

72. Comment from anonymous
Time November 8, 2011 at 12:36 PM

#44 45..and others…We all know that we have a lot of work to do in this world and each one has his or her own flaws and weaknesses. When a tragedy like this occurs, it is really hard to hear people play the blame game.First and foremost, we must offer our sympathies to the bereaved. We all know deep in our hearts where we fail and what our tafkid in this world is. We came here to make amends,we are all working hard. To castigate and blame is really painful. We are all working against the Yetzer Hara who has been given a lot of strength…and yes..we loose the war probably more often than not. We do not know the effort and nisoyan of each person…how would anyone know how they would handle “someone else’s nisoyan”. You got yours, concentrate on that…We are not going to leave this world perfect. Only Hashem is perfect…Our job is to work toward perfection, one step at a time with the tools we have. Sometimes I feel like my own tools are quite rusty, sometimes they are sharp. We are always taking one step forward and one step back. Hashem will judge us and who are we to put our fellow brothers and sisters down. We are the greatest, most generous…brightest nation on earth. Why do you think Hashem chose us…so let’s focus on the good and work on the bad…but enough with who …what… why …when…!!!!

73. Comment from TryingToChange
Time November 8, 2011 at 12:46 PM

I’m a young kid and I am totally shaken by this. It was a terrible accident, and yes there are no “accidents” in this world but it is not for us to point blame. We ALL need to look within ourselves and stop giving mussar to everyone else. I didn’t know them personally but I know many who did and these were two good, pure, and innocent boys who were korbanos to send us a message. GET THE MESSAGE, we need to stand as one and not forget that sinas chinam is part of why we are in galus. Don’t hurt the families with these comments. Just get the message and work on yourself.

74. Comment from confused jew
Time November 8, 2011 at 1:17 PM

is it possible that these car accidents are a mida kineged mida for not being carefull on the road which is a tremendous issur that

75. Comment from member of klal yisroel
Time November 8, 2011 at 4:23 PM

I believe anyone should look at themselves and take on something. Lets not blame anyone for it never helps. Instead, if we work on ourselves Bi’Achdus, we will iyH achieve the unimaginable.

76. Comment from Anonymous
Time November 8, 2011 at 7:32 PM

.The thing that makes us different than every other religion is that we love every other jew like he is our brother.Which is why it is the most important mitzvah,to love and respect every jew.
Baruch Dayan Emet

77. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 8, 2011 at 11:30 PM

#62

A woman does not have the sin of Bitul Torah.

#70

If you are so unfeeling towards the innocent victims,

YOU are the one with the problem.

Get help. Quick.

78. Comment from Phil
Time November 9, 2011 at 10:51 AM

QuestionForYou:

Long sheitels? Red nail polish? Who appointed you to make judgements?

You think you have a right to point fingers at others for this tragedy and then call me unfeeling?

As many have said, let everyone address their own faults and stop blaming others for this tragedy.

If you just can’t do that then you are a sick individual crying out for help!

79. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 9, 2011 at 2:18 PM

I was not pointing fingers at a specific person, and I was discussing a POSSIBLE consequence, as a whole, as actions done here impact the spiritual reaction above.

It is not a matter of my making judgments. The explanation of the criteria for modesty and the explanation of the consequences of immodesty do NOT originate with me.

Maybe you should read “Daughters of Dignity” and “Modesty - An Adornment for Life,” and then make a decision.

80. Comment from Phil
Time November 9, 2011 at 2:58 PM

Reading a few tzniyus books does not give you the right to make pronouncements about the causes of tragedies, possible or definitive.

And yes, you were pointing fingers, at those whose appearance doesn’t meet your standards. You have no right to define red nail polish or long sheitels as immodest.

Stop looking at others start worrying about yourself!

81. Comment from zelda
Time November 9, 2011 at 5:55 PM

“HAMAKOM YENACHEM ESCHEM BTOCH SHAAR AVILEI ZION V’YERUSHALAYIM”
May Hashem comfort you among the mourners of Zion and Yerushalayim
In all these comments I have not seen these words to the families of the yeshiva bochorim.
My heart is in pain just thinking how in one split moment all the hopes and dreams for the future were dashed for these two young boys and their families.
Please I beg you stop using this time to give mussar and use it to give condolences to the families who allowed their sons to go to yeshivas far from home to get the best education for their sons rather than staying locally. We need to understand that every time anyone gets in a car or van from one state to another we must say tefilot haderech, as there is always other drivers on a road and we want to pray we stay safe.
May these innocent sould go to higher madreigos and be a gutten beiter for their familes left behind and klal Yisroel.

82. Comment from Big A
Time November 9, 2011 at 11:53 PM

The Ramchal says: (these are not his exact words) No one except for a Gadol Hador, A very learned person has a right to give advice on why a tragedy happened or what we need to do to avoid anymore tragedies as such.
Yes! I add, you should do whatever you can do to become a better person all the time but please let’s have compassion for the boys and their families.

83. Comment from QuestionForYou
Time November 10, 2011 at 9:12 AM

As I wrote above, the criteria of modesty (which include Sheitels and nail polish) did NOT originate with me and were NOT defined by me.

They were ALL taken from the book “Modesty - An Adornment for Life,” by HaGaon HaRav Pesach Eliyahu Falk, Shlita, a Posek, whose book has, inside, the letters of Haskama of such Gedolim as Yibodel L’Chaim, HaGaon HaRav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg, Shlita; HaGaon HaRav Avrohom Pam, ZT”L; HaGaon HaRav Moshe Feinstein, ZT”L, HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, ZT”L; HaGaon HaRav Shmuel Birnbaum, ZT”L.

In his book, for every criterion that he discusses, Rabbi Falk, Shlita, cites sources from the Torah or rulings of such Rabbis as HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, ZT”L, and Yibodel L’Chaim, HaGaon HaRav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Shlita.

84. Comment from Phil
Time November 10, 2011 at 9:42 AM

QuestionForYou:

Again, it doesn’t matter what books you’ve read, you stil have no right to assign even possible causes to tragedies. Reading books also gives you no right to judge others. Only Gedolim can do that, not someone quoting from books.

I have yet to hear a Gadol get up and do so; in the meantime, start working on your own faults!

85. Comment from bassie
Time February 19, 2012 at 7:44 PM

this is so sad. i cry everytime i look at pictures etc.

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