A Reader Writes: Shidduchim – Complain or Do Something

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shidduchimDear Editor,

As a parent of children who are not yet in the parsha of shidduchim, I would like to make a suggestion as a Far Rockaway/Five Towns resident. We are close to the airport. We should pay people to be shadchanim a few nights a week. One night a week, we should have shadchanim for out-of-town people only. It’s not all about New York people. Let’s do something for Klal Yisroel and show that we care about everybody’s shidduchim.

Let’s invite out-of-town girls and boys to our homes for Shabbos. Maybe each of the Five Towns can adopt a sister state (e.g., Chicago, California, etc.) and work with these precious families to help their children.

Imagine your child in a distant city. Would we not want someone to help them out? I am not sure where the funds will come from, but this community has come together before with great innovations such as CAHAL.

In the meantime, as we procrastinate (myself included), let’s think about the thousands of tears that we can save by helping people find their bashert.


A Native New Yorker


  1. We, {all out-of-towners}, must get together and finally enforce the Tekonos, which we tried to enforce so many times.
    If a boy would know, that there are Tekonos which are going to spare him, from having to travel 12 hours to the: 1)Date, 2)Vort, 3)Chasunah,,, and most important 4) a whole lifetime of Shlepping hundreds of miles for Yomom Tovim, he would not keep on pushing to the back burner all out-of-town Shidduchim.
    Everyone, rich and poor, must sign on.

  2. I agree with comment 1 please keep these shidduch articles as the shidduch crisis is one of the biggest problems facing the Orthodox Jewish community today

  3. To: Shadchan.org
    Those in charge are following the wealthy people who don’t want and don’t need any Tokonis. For instance here in Toronto there are a few extremely wealthy men.
    What can we do? Time is not on our side.

  4. The most effective thing for out of town communities to do is to let BMG know they are ABSOLUTLEY NOT interested in anymore shabbos chizuk $$$$$$ until BMG does something effective about the shidduch crisis.

    BMG holds the key.

    IF La, Toronto, Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, etc. make their voices heard loud and clear that they really don’t neeed shabbos chizuk they need Shidduch Chizuk something would get done!

    Why it doesn’t happen?? Because the movers and shakers in these communities (and the tri state area) do NOT suffer from the crisis. Their daughters get dates. I’m sorry to be blunt but i write the truth. If it doesn’t hurt one is not motivated to make the difficult decisions necessary to alleviate the problem.

  5. Whats BMG supposed to do? Threaten the boys to date only out of towners and no in towners or they will be thrown out??

    Shidduchim is a personal desicion where every boy and girl gets to decide for thmeselves.

  6. If the boys come back from Eretz Yisroel six months earlier – that will put hundreds of additional boys on “the market”. This will really help the Shidduch scene greatly.

  7. Question. Does your daddy pay for your car? your phone? your medical insurance? So you can sit in a yeshiva? Oh. So your frummer than me. because my daddy doesnt and i had to go work.

  8. I personally only date out of towners. I have absolutely no choice. because Im a very solid working boy . And the local ones can dress like im not going to say what . and still demand learning boys. But I totally understand why someone would stay away from out of town. If it goes past two. it can cost you an arm and a leg. It also gets complicated with peoples schedules. also you have to date bunched together. Today where there is only like one in twenty chance it will work out. people dont like taking these extra things on. If something can be done. Let everyone benefit from out of town girls .

  9. Anonymous 6: BMG is not the only yeshiva. More girls should realize this.

    to commenter number 8: our boys’ learning should be a much more organic, less arbitrary pursuit. How can we set a magic number on when the boys should come back?
    Who’s to say the boys don’t need that much more time of undisturbed learning under their belts before getting married with the understanding that THEY are responsible to run their families? (At least for those of us who are so being mechanech our sons.)

  10. Shadchan.org, I don’t understand your posts. I appreciate the original writer’s thoughts. How nice to think of out of towners. I was an out of towner. You and I know that “it’s not all about the New Yorkers”, but many are adamantly against us. Nebach that you may have to travel for the Yomim Tovim. It’s the quality of the spouse that should interest you. I never understood how people could flatly reject a shidduch based on location. They must have a lot of bitachon or a clear message from Hashem that their ziggug will come from the tri state area. To all who think in this narrow minded fashion: take a trip out to the wonderful out of town communities and then you will really see quality beyond compare.

  11. tzippi – be mechanech them to be responsible adults, starting at a young age. Then, at 22.5, they’ll be old enough to get married. If you aren’t mechanech them – then even at 35 – they won’t be ready. It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with chinuch. The chassidishe boys know that at 18 they have be ready to get married, so they are already responsible by that age.

  12. If you think that out of towners have it hard !You should know that local Lakewood girls also have it very hard. But alot of the ones myself included went to a local mekubal that lives in lakewood (south side) .He never takes any money from anybody and almost everbody that goes to him gets engaged during that year I dont know if that will solve the shidduch crises ,but it certainly solved the shidduch crises for me and my friends.

  13. I live out of town and k’ah quite a few of the girls in my city just got married, and many were not rich or yichusdik girls. Since Hashem is the mezaveg zivugim, not the statisticians out there.
    BI am not sure how the person’s ideas will help. Most of us out of towners have family in NY anyway to stay by for dating. The problem is more the cost of flying back and forth.
    Please explain how your suggestion will help.

  14. ME why are there people starving in Somalia? AG: The age gap.
    ME: Why is there swine flu?
    AG: The age gap
    ME: How come I cant find any shoes my size?
    AG: The age gap.
    AG: you ask silly questions so Ill ignore you.
    ME: Why are there so many light bulb jokes?
    ME: What?
    ME: Anybody home?
    ME: Helllooooo?

    You are very good with a hammer so you perceive everything as a nail. this writer has a point. So does the ‘learning gap’ guy and so do alot of people. I wish you much success in your campaign but please stick to what you do and stop belittling other peoples very valid arguments.

  15. To poster-

    I think you need to leave new york more often because Chicago IS NOT A STATE!

    Simcha and hatzlocha

  16. To Agent Emess/Tzippy:

    BMG could and SHOULD institute the following adjustment to the freezer

    If come Tu B’shvat/Shiva Asar Bi’tamuz boys are only allowed to date girls 21 and older. To date younger girls the boys must wait till the end of the zeman.

    TRUE shidduchim is a personal desicion where every boy and girl gets to decide for thmeselves. Watch how fast the boys DECIDE to
    date girls 21 and over!

    Having close to 800 boys per year DECIDING to want to date girls 21+ IS the silver bullet in the crisis.

  17. I live in Baltimore and don’t see a higher percentage of single girls than in NY or Lakewood. when I look at the last few years of girls returning from sem most are married and of those who are still single the percentage seems the same as “in town”. Every week there’s many engagements B”H here so am I missing something here?

  18. To comment 18..
    Tu bshvat and shiva asser , are the dates that the boys are allowed to start dating in generall in BMG. So you are sugegsting extending the freezer period as away of penalizing those boys who dont want or need a girl 21 older ?

    Not every boy needs a girl his age or older. Some want a younger less mature girl.
    And if a boy is insistent on a younger girl, then I dont see how a few weeks will make all the difference.

  19. It’s time for both – the boys & the girls to stop being PICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the entire problem! Period!

  20. To Agent Emess:

    What’s being suggested is extending the freezer for boys who insist on only dating girls under 21. A couple extra months learning (winter zeman) never hurt anyone.

    Just watch how many boys will suddenly DECIDE that they don’t NEED a girl under 21.

    The shadchanim feel very strongly that a very very large majority of the “freezer boys” will be more than happy to date 21+ from tu b’shvat/ shiva assar b’tamuz till the end of the zeman.

    If that means that the first 2-3 girls each boy dates will be 21+, it will have an unbelievable positive impact on the crisis.

    That’s the EMESS!!

  21. tzippi – ready to get married is very broad & has no easy defintion, so I can’t define it.

    It really varies by each person. But I would say that at 22.5, most parents & Rebbeim would agree that a boy is ready. Of course, not every boy is the same. But, by instilling in a boy’s mind that he’s going to get married at a certain age – he will be ready at that age.

    Take a look at the Chassidish boys – they know that they are going to start dating at 18 – and are ready at that age.

    Why can’t Litvishe boys be ready at 22.5??

  22. Why can’t Litvishe boys be ready a half year earlier?
    One reason: they’re not prepared to go to work as early as Chassidishe boys, which means that much more support will become de riguer.

    I wonder if you can more easily define when a girl is ready to get married….

  23. To Comment 23
    If we say that we abolish the freezer altogether for guys who agree to date over 21, then perhaps it has at least a symbollic sign of BMG caring , to make everyone feel good. But I dont see how this can be implemented and enforced in a big yeshiva with 200 + boys dating. What will they do? show a copy of her drivers license to the Rosh Yeshiva to verify her age?
    But to “extend ” the freezer for under 21 is Taliban style enforcig and can have a bad effect.

    When I was came to BMG, Lakewood, well over 15 years ago, We started in Ellul, and that meant that I could not date till Chanukah, and trust me , I hung on to every second of the freezer time , and would have loved if it was longer.

    (PSSST.. I violated the freezer by one week, my parents made me do it. but dont tell anyone, not that it made any difference, cause I am still single 15 years later, HA HA )

  24. Agent Emess:

    It can easily be implemented if they care. I don’t think it’s that much to ask that a boy show his kallah’s license if he got engaged between tu’ bishvat and nissan.

    Sorry, if that’s to much work, but alleviating the crisis requires that we be ready to such “terribly” difficult things.

  25. I learned in Lakewood for 6 years,

    And guess what, there are other yeshivas out tehre besides BMG.
    Chaim Berlin, Torah vodaas , waterbury, Ner Yisroel . And dare I say it, tehre are many many good solid frum working boys.
    So just cause a girl a group of girls decide they want or think they need a Lakewood boy, does not make it that BMG has the obligation to compromise on and enforce ideology.

    5 weeks later of dating is not what is going to help this crisis.

    A shift and readjusment in the amount of girls being ready to accept good working guys or guys from other yeshivos as well , will help

  26. Asher Barah Sasson Vesimcha Choson Vekallah. first comes happiness. then comes marriage. You will not commit to marriage until you are happy. You are only happy if you are doing what you are supposed to do. Boys are not doing what they are supposed to do. thus often are not ready for marriage.How can they? Just pick themselves up and do it? Is there anyone else to talk to to help them plan their move? Is there anyone to dorm with when they make their move? Most women like tzippy , chicago, midwestener, and others, think boys and their familys are wrong for staying in yeshiva when they dont belong there. They feel that a shidduch comes from hashem. True. If shidduchim was the only concern maybe your right. However its not the only concern. Indirectly, because girls all want much more learning than the guys really want. It became nearly impossible to leave yeshiva . And judging each individual case very often a rav will advise a bochur to stay in yeshiva because it will be worse for him to leave. Not because it SHOULD be worse for him. Rather it IS worse for him because he will have many more issues if he leaves than he should be dealing with. Since girls like rocking yeses to guys in yeshiva, people dont leave that fast. Once no one is leaving, EVEN A BELIEVER WOULDN LEAVE. Because when your the only one doing something no one is trying to cater to you. its like a midget trying to find a suit.( It happens to be that men view the world differently then women and are less believing. which is not bad. women are sometimes too believing and they have a naive blissful approach to life which is not based in reality. Men are sometimes too paranoid and can use some of this feminine trait. neither approach is better. they are just different. If a boy deviates from the norm. and less girls want him. its against his nature to believe that some girl from somewhere wants him. he has to battle it. On the flip side if a girl doesnt take care to look good. she will get less yeses. A girls nature is to say ‘ if he doesnt like me the way i am he is not for me. this is equally false. He likes you the way you are. He just doesnt like the way you choose to be right now. it would be nice If women would understand that men and in this case boys. have a hard time being believers and thus very hesitant to leave yeshiva when they see the quality of the girls suggested to them decreases. when a girls attitude would be its not for me if he is not interested. But since women do not relate to this concept. I chose reasons that they do relate to. ie. no one to network with etc.) It would be nice if girls had their head on straight and instead of punishing a guy for going against the grind and doing what hashem wants they would at least give him the same chance as a guy who is registered in a yeshiva. A good guy who made the switch is A maximizing his time. B proving that he can stay a ben torah even when he leaves the yeshiva system. something many guys still IN YESHIVA cant profess. but explain this to a girls family.. nobodys home.

  27. Let me try this again,a discussion question for the class:
    Describe a boy who’s ready to get married.
    Describe a girl who’s ready to get married.
    Compare, contrast, explain. (Nowayout, you’re patur. I appreciate your honesty and clarity and wish I could offer hope.)

  28. Agent Emess:

    There are of course boys not learning in lakewood. BUT the single largest conglamerate of dating boys is in Lakewood. Close to 800 new boys every year.

    They COULD and they SHOULD institute the earlier suggestion as that is the single greatest effective plan of action at this time.


  29. Tsippy . im not the only one who should be patur. Im not the only one in yeshiva that doesnt belong there. Btw you could offer me hope. You sound like the type of person people might listen to. convince your daughter, niece, friends ,etc. to be open to dating a working boy. then who knows. there can be a snowball effect. maybe even during my tenure on the market I will be able to leave yeshiva.

  30. To “No Way Out”, try an out of town girl who is more open minded. You don’t need 1,000 girls saying yes to you- only 1. There is only 1 girl out there you need to marry, may you find her soon!
    Find a shadchan who does cater to boys like you. Don’t sweep all the girls into one box and say no one would look at your daughter. My mother is a shadchan and finds boys like you shidduchim. You are worse off forcing yourself to stay in yeshiva against your nature, then going out and making something of yourself and proving you can still be a good person and yirei Shamayim even out of yeshiva.
    I think you need to sit down and speak to a rav to help guide you in where you should head.
    Hatzlocha and don’t be down on yourself.

  31. 800 is over exaterated, but either way. I see we will not see eye to eye on this issue.
    I am proud to say that I have made 19 shidduchim to date and all are happy and married.
    I hope to make many more shiddchim.
    Most shadchamin would agree that the girls do way more declining then the guys in all steps of the dating.
    Agent emmes

  32. balabusta. you didnt read my post. I am in yeshiva. I did ask a rav. and its not so black and white. read my post first.

  33. To No Way Out, I’d suggest that if you want people to understand your comments better, keep them more concise and they will be easier to read and follow.

  34. just to let you (#5) and the rest of the world know, just because a girl lives in the tri-state area, it doesn’t mean that she gets dates all the time. im a 22 year old girl, and ive only gone out with 2 boys. you’re probably thinking, o, she’s not such a good catch… but you gotit wrong, i went yo great schools and a top seminary and i have a kesser shem tov. im personable and get along with people and still….???

  35. to ‘for your information’,
    I’m sure you have ala maylos as you say, but you must certainly also possess the trait of humility 🙂
    Hatzlocha and yes, it’s true there are some out of towners who get engaged earlier than similar girls in NY. Why should that be? They are not necessarily richer, more yichusdik, prettier, might not even have the same ‘kesser shem tov’, but the reason is one reason only; because Hashem makes the shidduchim and decreed it so!
    May Hashem decree for all those who are waiting shidduchim to find their zivugim speedily!

  36. 32, my daughter IS looking for a working boy.
    And FYI (37) I know you’re not alone. I’ve heard of many top girls in the NY area who are also still looking, so know there are people who are hoping for the best for you all too.

    And I may change my name to NTDTTAG (not totally due to the age gap).

  37. AG I thought post # 16 would keep you quiet. Or at least make you change your name to AZ, Sam, Yitschak, or one of your other aliases. Your pathetic. I would tell you your game is up, but it was up ages ago.

  38. A person:

    Sorry to disappoint you.

    Tzippy: Thanks For comnig around.

    NO one claims the absolutely only factor is age gap.

    97.5% of the issue is age gap. That leaves some room for all the other issues.

    HOWEVER even if all the other issues where to disappear suddenly, The age gap problem dictates that we still have aprox. 10% of girls never getting married never having families.

  39. AG, for the record, I have NOT come around. I guess my name will have to be Not Only Not Totally Due To The Age Gap But Nowhere Near As Much As AG Says (NONTDTTAGBNNAMAAS).
    I think we have to spend WAY more than 2.5% on the other issues, like the learning gap (which I’m coming to see as a major problem), reeducating parents, raising our boys well, for starters.

    You say, when people say that boys act as if it’s coming to them (better in the yiddish, I know) that if it weren’t due to the age gap, they would be acting like menschen. I say that it’s our challenge to be raising menschen no matter what the circumstances.

    Just raising some food for thought here.

  40. Tzippy: You can try to raise menchen all you like. Without solving the age gap 10@ of girls will never get married never have families.

    Hope you don’t mind wasting your time.

    Oh if you solve the age gap in all likelihood, there will be an unbelievable ripple effect regarding all the other SUBJECTIVE issues.

    Do the math, and calculate how many older girls there are vis a vis older boys. You are free to have an opinion on the matter, it would just hold much more weight if it wan’t a sevara from you stomach (better in yiddish I know)

  41. AG . You are annoying. If you post again I will start dating strictly eighteen year olds. I am twenty five.

  42. AG: I am converted! I will no longer try to raise mentschen! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
    Could you email me or publish a complete list of the New Age catechism? Thank you.

  43. Agent Emess:

    How do we get your number? I need some good working boys,

    lakewood girl:

    Can you reveal who this Mekubal is? Does he see New Yorkers as well?

  44. Lakewood girl you said
    “You should know that local Lakewood girls also have it very hard. But alot of the ones myself included went to a local mekubal that lives in lakewood (south side)”

    what is his name does anyone know? .

  45. This is a beatifil post full with true ahavas yisroel.
    However at has a point if this chewed does not take ages into account then all it will do is force in town girls to be left out as the limited nber of boys will be taken.
    Theonly thing which can really help on the big picture is to increase the number of avail boys which means having boys marry their age

  46. Sorry for typos ag has good point and this Is a chewed to one person thatoght be at expense of another of course it might be worth it as the in town girls might have more success overcoming age prejudice
    May we all hear bsoros tovos


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