LISTEN: Rabbi Feurst: Do Not Take Unvaccinated Children into School – “Lo Saamod Al Dam Rei’echa”

67

LISTEN:

67 COMMENTS

  1. Thank you, Rabbi Fuerst for speaking out.
    I read an article about measles in Israel and it said that 99% of the current cases of measles are with people who weren’t vaccinated. That means both that the vaccine works and that the vaccine is not entirely effective at preventing measles. I don’t care that it is only 1% of vaccinated people who have gotten it even though they have been vaccinated. Measles is ALMOST entirely preventable and there is no reason that any child should be at risk of catching this illness.

  2. Since scientists have proven that most measles outbreak victims (about 86%) received the vaccination, will the vaccinated-children-school admit when a student of theirs will get the measles or will they cover it up and conceal the truth from the anti-vaxxers?

      • You and most pro-vaxxers on here sound like the liberal Trump haters who resort to name calling and assault instead of constructive criticism.
        The past few days, loads of articles with scientists’ evidence have been posted. But you prefer to call them all conspiracies and not look into them. If you really care to know, go back and you’ll find all the proof you need.

        • Dear 11:51, quite the opposite: It is you antivaxxers who are reminiscent of antiTrumper idiots, with all your cultism and shameless cut-and-paste baloney.

        • “The past few days, loads of articles with scientists’ evidence have been posted. “
          Ah,hahahahahahaha – name even ONE credible article, you pathetic liar.

        • Nope. We’re just trying to protect our children (and yours) from dying, R”L, by being exposed to children of reshaim who don’t vaccinate theirs.

  3. Trying to reason with an anti-vaxer is a futile effort. It reminds one of a story about Reb Chaim Brisker.
    Once, Reb Velvel heard someone presenting some “krum svoros” to his father, yet, Reb Chaim, who usually arose like a lion to argue for the truth, was totally silent. Reb Velvel inquired about this inordinate stance. Reb Chaim gave a classic answer:
    “When someone believes that 2+2 equals 5, I will spare no time or effort, to elucidate that, in reality, it’s only 4. However, once someone says that 2+2 is a suitcase, then I realize that his entire thought process is corrupt, and attempting to convince him otherwise would be an absolute waste of time. One cannot fix a mind that is incapable of straight logic.”

        • Marc, wrong on both accounts. The facts have proven that the anti-vaxxers are right and so is the halachah clearly on the anti-vaxxers’ side: בבא מציעא ס”ב ע”א
          חייך קודמים לחיי חברך “Chayecha Kodmim” – your life takes precedence over his life. You’re not obligated to risk YOUR child’s life with vaccination that have proven to have side effects.

    • “2+2 is a suitcase” while crazy is harmless and can be ignored. The anti-vaxx movement OTOH is terribly dangerous. As long as the misinformed, the delusional, and the trolls keep spouting their pseudoscientific garbage in an effort to convince those who don’t know better, they must be counteracted, as many times as necessary, with the actual facts. Innocent children, including those of the anti-vaxxers, don’t deserve to have their health put at risk.

      • Actual facts? Since when do pro-vaxxers have actual facts? Until now it was always blindly following the doctor, CNN and Snopes. So let’s hear all about the actual facts.

        • Based on the style and content of this hoaxter’s post, I’m nearly positive that this is the same Russian troll who posts lies about everything under the sun, and not a real anti-vaxxer. If so, you have now read a post from someone who’s deliberately trying to sicken and kill Jews with his misinformation.

  4. Rav Shmuel Fuerst is the Rov of the Agudas Yisroel of Chicago and the Dayan of the Agudas Yisroel of Illinois. A Talmid of both Telzer Yeshiva of Cleveland and Chicago. He spent many years recieving Shimush in Halacha from Rav Moshe, Rav Shlomo Zalman, and Rav Elyashiv, Zecher Tzadikim Livrocho.

  5. “2+2 is a suitcase” while crazy is harmless and can be ignored. The anti-vaxx movement OTOH is terribly dangerous. As long as the misinformed, the delusional, and the trolls keep spouting their pseudoscientific garbage in an effort to convince those who don’t know better, they must be counteracted, as many times as necessary, with the actual facts. Innocent children, including those of the anti-vaxxers, don’t deserve to have their health put at risk.

  6. If you hold and accept the psakim of a certain Rov, you have to hold of EVERYTHING he holds. You can’t go psak fishing. You can’t shop around for heterim. Having said that, all of you vaxxers who hold like Rabbi Feurst Shlita, MUST hold and agree with the Sefer he wrote called “9 to 5” about tznius in the workplace! I have and read the entire Sefer So should you. I highly doubt you fisherman commenting on this website read that Sefer. Get back to me what you hold.

      • The sefer 9:00 to 5:00 was written by Rabbi Shmuel Neiman from Monsey with numerous chashuva haskamos including Rav Mattisyahu Solomon Shlita, Rav Yecheskel Roth Shlita, Rabbi Feuer Shlita, amongst others. Rav Belsky ZT”L also gave an haskama. In todays spiritual downward trend towards the abyss, the sefer is a real wake-up call to all of us in the working world. I highly recommend everyone get ahold of a copy.

    • Dear phony, if you insist on going the way of the dodo in your antivaxxer zeal, do so at your own expense: separate yourself from our shuls, schools and camps. Happy Darwin awards to you!

  7. The nature of a controversy is the existing fact of TWO sides. Since there are valid opinions on both sides we have no confirmation that the side we chose is correct. So let us stop pointing fingers and respect our fellow brethren and community members.

    Vaccines remain a gray topic. One who is vaccinated is not guaranteed to not contract the virus they are vaccinated against. Hashem created us with a complex immune system and it is difficult to manipulate it. Herd immunity has been disproven over and over again. Throughout history there have been communicable disease outbreaks and they have passed without vaccines (ex. scarlet fever, and more recently ebola).

    Since vaccines contain toxic ingredients (ex. mercury or aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate 20 or 80, and others…) with no proper studies indicating the safety dosages of these ingredients, one who chooses to hold off is not completely ungrounded.

    Furthermore, vaccines have a messy history of every so often being removed from the market after discovering severe adverse reactions. (For those interested, google ‘Cutter Incident’, rotavirus recall 1998-1999, HPV recall 2013, and others…. ).

    In simple terms, vaccines are preventative medicine. What obligation does one have to expose healthy people to preventative medicine if it is not guaranteed to be 100% safe?

    The fear social media is spreading regarding measles in analogous to end stage terminal cancer when in fact it is far from that. It has similar symptoms to the seasonal flu in which it affects the upper respiratory system, fever, malaise, and a hallmark sign of skin rash.

    I do not wish this virus or any other upon anyone and if anyone is affected I wish them a speedy refuah shelaima. With proper nourishment, hydration, antipyretics, antibiotics/antivirals, and vitamin A supplements one should have a complete recovery.

    • Deary berry95, nice try copying and pasting antivaxxer gibberish. Is it a requirement to possess below 85 IQ in order to join the antivaxxer cult?

    • From inside the sefer, it says:
      Copyright ©2001
      by
      Rabbi Shmuel Neiman
      3 Ashel Lane
      Monsey, NY 10952
      (845) 425-7597

  8. For those receiving the MMR and may have close contact with any pregnant women, please inquire if you can receive only the measles vaccine without rubella, since MMR is a live vaccine and rubella causes birth defects to neonates.

  9. Do you remember when we sang “pop goes the measles”? would you sing “pop goes the cancer”? that song alone tells me that when children used to get measles it was no big deal. Yes there was a death from it. A person can die from anything if they have weakened immunity. People in the last generation expected it the same way we expected chicken pox.
    And if you are one of those Tzaddikim who don’t want to put the rest of the community “in danger” then head out for your boosters every 4 years. the vaccine only gives temporary immunity

    • Dear Pop Goes Your Brain, the song goes “pop goes the weasel”, not “measles”. I wouldn’t call you am hooretz: that would be an insult to amoratzim.

  10. To the silly anti-vaxers who can’t seem to get it. Yes, the frum world has taken the side of Doctors. We proudly consider them good sources for information about science and the health of our children. This is as opposed to your anti-vax sources that have no basis in science, and no adherents to their misguided beliefs except a few equally misguided, loud, obnoxious, and dangerous individuals who seem to be desperate to spread untruths as if they are “educated” and have a background in these matters. Scary.

  11. Dr. Paul Offit was interviewed and was asked about the mortality rate of measles before the vaccine was introduced. He said there were about 3 to 4 million cases of measles yearly, with about 48,000 hospitalizations, and about 500 deaths primarily in children. If you calculate these figures using the lower 3 million number, the rate of death was .00016667

    You can check this out yourself on the video at the 54:52 mark, “The Danger of Celebrity Health Advice with Dr. Paul Offit”

    • Dear FoolsGold, your antivaxxer copy and paste “statistics” is a bunch of baloney. The real facts: 1 or 2 out of 1000 infected children die. That is besides such long-term complications as permanent hearing loss or Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis. And I won’t mention Mumps and Rubella(MMR vaccine fights that) that include even more long-term complications such as a life time of infertility.

  12. I commend Rav Fuerst for also having courage to lead kol Koreh in 2015 which appeared in Mishpacha Magazine along with over 100 charedi rabonim urging all to promptly report child abuse to civil authorities.

  13. It is inappropriate for Rabbi Feurst to issue such a blanket verbal Psak without citing his sources or the nature of the “research” that he has done to come to such a conclusion. He should commit this Psak to writing with all his sources properly noted, so it can be reviewed and either accepted or rejected on the merits. Every indication from the science is that an unvaccinated child or adult who is not sick or infected is no danger at all. At least insofar as Pertussis we have the Warfel 2014 study which demonstrates that a vaccinated individual is more likely to colonize and spread Whooping cough asymptomatically. In other words the vaccinated child or adult is a potential danger. It is unfortunate that there are ignorant physicians that are misleading rabbis as to the actual risk of communicable disease transmission with or without vaccination. The vaccine injury compensation program which has paid out billions of dollars in damages for death and injury due to vaccines is proof enough that there is a real sakana in vaccinating. The reason there is so much push back against vaccine choice advocates is because vaccine injury is vastly under reported. If the true scope of vaccine injury were revealed it would cost the program trillions of dollars.

    • Dear FlatEarth Antivaxxer, again with cut and paste tinfoil hat websites’ gibberish?! The fact is that measles vaccine has decades long safety record. And no, there were not billions paid in compensation for measles vaccine. You lying flat earther.

      • Mr. “flatbushantivaxxer” did not say that billions were paid for damages just from the Measles Vaccine itself; rather, he said that billions were paid for damages from “vaccines” — in general. In other words, billions were paid for damages from many different vaccines. This fact I myself saw documented at https://www.nvic.org/injury-compensation.aspx What are you going to retort??? That nvic.org, which is the web site of the “National Vaccine Information center,” is just a bunch of “tinfoil hat gibberish”??????? It looks like what you and your other vaxxer friends are writing here is the real “tinfoil hat gibberish”!!!!!!!!!! You are the one who is the “lying flat earther”!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Mchutsaf! Who are you to tell a world renowned and respected Rav across America that it is inappropriate to do something. He does not have to show any source for his psak. He said he looked into and came to a conclusion. Rabanim don’t give psakim to be debated by laymen like yourself to decide if what they concluded has enough basis. Your antivaxism has gone way to far and you are showing how one sided and disrespectful you can be. You need to apologize publicly for your outrageous and outlandish words.

      • 1) I am a pro-vaxer and my children are vaxinated.

        2) Every Rav must cite sources. We, as Torah Jews, do not ever put our reliances and trust in humans. We are loyal to the Torah, not some rabbi.

        3) Don’t just trust rabbi’s when they say what you want them to. If he were to change his mind tomorrow and align with the anti-vaxers, will you still advocate trusting him without verifiable sources??????

  14. If Rabbi Feurst can list the ingredients in the vaccine which he is telling me to take then we could further discuss it.

      • The people who are into the Natural Healing realm of medicine do not drink “Kool Aid” or any of the other similar artificial children’s drinks, for they are full of harmful garbage that is almost as terrible as the garbage in your sick vaccines!!

  15. will any antivaxer answer.
    Are frum doctors knowingly harming their patient by administering vaccines. all for the sake of profits.

    • I am sure no frum doctor is knowingly hurting his patients. However, most doctors have not actually taken the time to research vaccine safety studies. The type of study that is a standard for licensing any drug has never been done for any vaccine.
      Unfortunately, most doctors don’t even know what ingredients are in the vaccines. And if you think that is ok because they just need to know the ingredients are safe, that is not true. Even if all the ingredients were generally safe (hint: they are not), a particular patient can have an allergy to one of the ingredients (such as egg, yeast, soy, milk etc) and should not receive that vaccine.
      I’d also be interested to learn more about the permissibility of the ingredients like pig, human fetal cells, monkey kidney cells etc. I’m not saying they are not allowed, just that it would be interesting to learn why it’s ok to inject these into our bodies.
      Further, I challenge any pro-vaxxer to explain the heter to vaccinate with Hepatitis B given at birth; it is an STD and can also be contracted by sharing drug needles. Unless the baby’s mother is positive for hepatitis B (this is tested both at the beginning and end of pregnancy, so it is not some unknown fact), there is no benefit to the baby whatsoever to receive this vaccine, but it still carries all the risk.
      The same for the HPV vaccine – how does introducing risk with no benefit at all to the patient not violate the mitzvah of venishmartem me’od l’nafshoseichem?

  16. COULD IT BE…..PERHAPS IS IT POSSIBLE……THAT THE DOCTORS HAVE MISLEAD THE ROV…..THERE IS NO GEMORO OR HALOCHO THAT SAYS “THY MUST VACCINATE” OR “SHALL VACCINATE”, IT IS THE CDC AND OR SOME OTHER PHONY SOURCES.
    COULD IT BE THAT SOMEONE MISLEADS A EHRLICHE ROV?????!!!!!!!! DID THE ROV SEE THE DATA?? I KNOW THAT HE DIDN’T! BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA TO BACK IT UP.

    SO TO ALL THE NEBECH GULLIBLE VAXXERS: MAY HASHEM PROTECT YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU PUT YOUR TRUST IN THE DOCTORS, FDA AND CDC. WE THE PEOPLE WHO RESEARCHED AND DON’T STICK POISON INTO OUR MOST BELOVED PRESENT DAVEN FOR YOU AND HOPE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE SUCH QUACKS AND EXTREME NAIVE, NARROW MINDED PEOPLE.

    THE LAST TIME I CHECKED ONLY “HASHEM” CAN’T MAKE A MISTAKE

  17. As somebody who would be called an “Anti-Vaxxer”, I could tell you with certainty that frum doctors are saving people with their antibiotics and other remedies. However, many doctors have come forth and said that in medical school the only thing that is taught in regard to vaccines is that “Vaccines are safe and effective” …”Many lives were saved …” They then go on to teach the vaccine schedule. They discuss nothing of the ingredients or the benefits vs. the risks… I have witnessed doctors crying on documentaries saying that when they later learned of the ingredients in vaccines, they realized how much harm they may have caused.

    Now that the public is getting more educated and starting to question vaccines, they are teaching about “Vaccine Hesitancy”- How to convince parents that vaccines are good!

    The doctors go by the education they received, they do not mean any harm chas veshalom.

    And to all the pro-vaxxers out there who think that we are so irrational and so illogical, why did the Journal of Pediatrics write that most of the parents that hesitate to give vaccines are those making an income of 70,000 and above (meaning the higher income earners are the ones questioning vaccines.)?
    Maybe we are not so ignorant after all?

  18. Check out these articles on conflict of interest between CDC, ACIP, etc. and vaccine manufacturers:

    Vaccine Policy Makers and Conflicts of Interest

    Prevalence of Industry support and its relationship to research integrity

    The unofficial vaccine educators: Are CDC funded non-profits sufficiently independent?

    Conflict of Interest in Vaccine Policy making Majority Staff Report Committee on Government Reform US House of Representatives, June 15, 2000

    How Independent are vaccine defenders?

  19. As the remark above by “flatbushantivaxxer” pointed out, the real truth is THE EXACT OPPOSITE: That a person who DID get a vaccination, he or she IS THE ONE who is a danger to other people!! This is because he or she has just had pumped into him or her an excessively huge amount of the dangerous germs that make the disease.

    Now though, the doctrine of vaccinations is that pumping into the person all these bad germs is actually a “good” thing, for when they get inside, they trigger the person’s immune system to produce antibodies to them. These new antibodies then neutralize these bad germs that were injected and ward off any further invasion of them, thus making the person “immune” to the disease.

    However, this process (of the person’s system producing the antibodies, and the antibodies neutralizing the germs) takes a certain period of time to process. And, regarding that, each person is different: in some people, it takes a number of days, in other people, it takes a number of weeks, and in still other people, it can take even a number of months!

    So during these days or weeks or months that it is taking the process to process, this person is carrying around this gigantic of gigantic influx of very dangerous disease germs!!

    Furthermore, the disease germs ARE NOT the only component of the vaccine; in that vaccine solution that is pumped into the person, (in addition to the germs) are also measures of mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, and other substances to act as preservatives & stabilizers. So this person is carrying around not only a massive volume of harmful germs, he or she is also carrying around significant quantities of harmful poisons. So it is inevitable that at least a little bit of this very toxic soup is going to evaporate out of him or her into the surrounding space, and when he or she breathes out and coughs, even more of this toxic concoction is going to come out into the air and hurt nearby people.

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