We grew up that the Yesod of yiddishkeit is about mesiras nefesh for Torah Umitzvos. That Torah and tefilla protect.
The Rebbe himself states that the haters will either way hate.
So why so quick to give up. Why so worried about what the sonei yisroel will think. Suddenly tefilla Btzibbur doesnt protect us? Only when its convenient? Wheres the mesiras nefesh for our yiddishkeit????
I went to the backyard minyan on yom tov (we all stood 6 ft apart) and stood in the freezing cold for hours. The hashpaah it had on my kids that Totty has such mesiras nefesh for davening is a level of chinuch I will never be able to accomplish by davening at home
I don’t get it.
Is there any rov who said you should daven with a minyan these days? Chinuch could also mean though I want to daven with a minyan, the rabbonim said no, so we listen to them whether we understand them or not.
Yes there are many rabbonim who permit davening on porches. And why not if you are 6 feet apart or more. Many porches are as much as 20-30 feet apart. To decide Hashem doesn’t want minyanim and therefore say that even if you are many feet apart still you should not daven with a minyan is preposterous. Anyone knows anything about Halacha knows we first determine if Halacha permits something and not first determine what we feel Hashem wants us to do. If we are more then 6 feet apart and as much as 20-30 feet apart then according to the cdc we are completely permitted To gather. In that case we surely should daven with a minyan. And why would this cause chilul Hashem, if we are many feet apart we are not gathering and not breaking any rules of the cdc. And these goyim who are annoyed by this would be annoyed by our chanukah licht as well. Is it Hashem’s will that we close our doors and windows when lighting Chanukah licht as well. Chas Veshalom
I don’t get you.
You talk about mesiras nefesh for Yiddishkeit and about chinuch. Maybe now the chinuch should be that I listen to the rabbonim though I do not understand them. (Devarim 17 passuk 11 Rashi)
What about the hashpaah that totty knows better than gedolei yisroel and doctors? That just about every posek in the world said one way, but totty and his backyard minyan disagreed and were not only moser nefesh but were rotzchim as well? You should be embarrassed not proud.
Enough with the “Rotzchim” hyperbole. When it comes to shopping in grocery suddenly no one is a rotzeach?! Are the customers standing 6 feet away from the cashiers? Of course not. The pesach aisles are jammed with shoppers in close vicinity of each other. Only when it comes to tefilla Btzibbur (standing 6 feet apart) are we Rotzchim?????
Got some bad news for you, just read that sometimes this virus can travel over 13 feet and possibly longer. If there’s even a slight chasash sakana, why take chances especially with your kids?????
Do you take your kids into your car with you? Surely you are aware that every time you hit the road theres a “slight chashash sakana”……. why take chances especially with your kids?????
Answer – We do our best to drive carefully. We seat belt ourselves and our kids and follow the road rules. Same here. If we stand 6 feet apart, the risk is no greater than driving. So why give up on our koach of tefilla btzibbur?
More deaths will be caused by crowded shoppers in the pesach aisles and customers standing within 6 feet of the cashiers than by me standing 6 feet away OUTDOORS in someones backyard. Why arent you bothered by the shopping situation? Is our connection to God via tefilla btzibbur any less critical to our jewish values and existence than a 5 lb bag of potatoes?
Esav sonei l’yaakov is true and will always be true.
As the Dayan said, it will be true regardless – whether there are porch minyanim or not.
Sadly, and I am not pointing fingers, but there were a few who disobeyed the chok hamedinah for days and even weeks, and they were those who brought the sinah of esav upon us on an even greater level.
The media were busy with those for two weeks and more, as there were sects in our Judaism who were blatantly flaunting the rules.
Perhaps now if people see that there is proper social distancing all around, and they see that even when it comes to davaning, they/we are being extremely careful and staying a house-distance away from each other, perhaps that would create some positive media.
Perhaps Hashem wants the amen yehei shemai rabbah under these circumstances. I don’t know.
It would also be nice if many or some of those on this “no minyan” bandwagon would get up publicly and proclaim that they were wrong before by defying the advice of the WHO and the CDC and the government. That would also create some positive media and dare I say a kiddush Hashem.
Gut moed to all; refuos, simchos and yeshuos – with a minyan or without
The Dayan spoke very well but let’s give our Yidden the benefit of the doubt. Non-Jews or secular Jews have no problem squishing into jammed packed subway cars, shopping in malls, going to parks and beaches in groups and are not arrested, why shouldn’t we – who are not going anywhere – be allowed to do the minimum – daven on porches?
Let’s not kid ourselves. This corona virus, like the blood libels of former times, was released from labs targeting Jews. Whatever we do, whether we daven in the house or on our porches, the anti-Semites out there will accuse us anyhow. So we might as well do what we may.
I dont get it, you truly dont get it. This has nothing to do with mesiras nefesh for mitzvos. This is all about protecting lives. There is no middle ground. Any gathering is a health hazard
When they will have a complete shutdown , meaning, absolutely nothing open including Walmarts etc, banks, and esp the Transit wherein there is a clear violation of Cdc rules… It is then that the porch minyanim will perhaps have to cease. Otherwise, why is minyan less important than the guy shopping in Home Depot for a project.
There are many gedolim that indeed hold you should try daven w minyan within a safe environment. Even the letter from Rav Chaim K states nothing regarding safe porch minyanim.
As Rav Gamliel Rabinowtz said: it is at a time like this that we indeeed need the protection of minyan…
Maybe we should hide our beard and payos now just to look better in the eyes of the goyim ? Or maybe we should refrain from going out all together like groceries and bank work essential places where it is permitted just because the goyim ?
If the only way to daven Bminyan would be by holding weapons, would all minyanim stop forever? Or would we create awareness and proper training before abolishing our connection with Hashem thru tefilla btzibur?
At our backyard minyan, we have sanitizer at the entrance, everyone is properly distanced and spread out, so whats wrong? Why give up krias hatorah, Kedusha, duchanen, amein yehei shmei rabba?
Those of your ilk are called ‘chasid shoteh’! hatzalah,bikur cholim,rabbanim,frum doctors,etc. are in the trenches of this war.whatever you know and think,they know one thousand times more! their hearts yearn for krias hatorah,kedusha,duchanen,amein yehei shmai rabba,etc.as much as you do! im kol zeh they beg and cry, many with tears actually streaming down their faces and beg: NO MINYANIM!not no minyan in shul,not no minyan in someones’ house, no minyan period!!!!! that includes with sanitizer,masks,gloves,500 feet between each mispallel,etc etc etc. your brilliant logic regarding buying pet project in home depot or shopping in favorite food store notwithstanding some awfully fine Jews who are moser nefesh to save Jews are actually calling those of your ilk a rodef.That should give you pause rather than gaavidik attitude that no one feels your incredible yearning for kedusha!
Though I don’t know for sure, it seems to me from the contect of the Rov’s words, that the Rov Shlita was adressing the kehilla of frume yidden in Montreal. The demographics there are such that the yidden live interspersed amongst their French Canadian neighbors, some of whom who are notoriously antisemitic.
While there is no great love for us anywhere we are in this bitter galus, I am not sure that the Rov meant the porch minyanim in self-contained frum neighborhoods (where the whole block is made up of frume yidden) such as some blocks in BP and Flatbush.
Though I may be misinformed, I have not heard of any of the Rabbanim in BP and Flatbush complaining against these minyanim with clearly proper social distancing, except perhaps strictly on halachic grounds (of which issues do exist).
On yhe next block from me 4 houses had 3 men each. they all stood on their porches while I stood in the street. Social distancing was maintained between families. Members of the same families may or may not have socially distanced.And one of the participants was a Rosh Yeshivah.
Those of your ilk are called ‘chasid shoteh’! hatzalah,bikur cholim,rabbanim,frum doctors,etc. are in the trenches of this war.whatever you know and think,they know one thousand times more! their hearts yearn for krias hatorah,kedusha,duchanen,amein yehei shmai rabba,etc.as much as you do! im kol zeh they beg and cry, many with tears actually streaming down their faces and beg: NO MINYANIM!not no minyan in shul,not no minyan in someones’ house, no minyan period!!!!! that includes with sanitizer,masks,gloves,500 feet between each mispallel,etc etc etc. your brilliant logic regarding buying pet project in home depot or shopping in favorite food store notwithstanding some awfully fine Jews who are moser nefesh to save Jews are actually calling those of your ilk a rodef.That should give you pause rather than gaavidik attitude that no one feels your incredible yearning for kedusha!
basic idea is because of Esav Sonei es Yaakov we know that Sinah against the Yidden is a reality. During a time of a difficult gezeirah from shomayim, when the goyim are looking at us, it is not ratzon Hashem to try to make minyanim at the expense of increasing sinas Yisrael
I do NOT believe anyone died or will die cus they davened in a minyan or went to the mikve. Yes, having purim parties without caring about warnings, and a lack of social distancing in the stores pre yt shopping and other non protective measures may have been a factor. Ludicrous to blame it on pple doing heilige things. completely loosing the plot. You don’t want to do the minyan; dont. You don’t want to go to the Mikve; don’t But to say thats the cause??????
The point is not because some anonymous commentator believes so. The point is that “Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: all who respond “Yehei shmei rabbah…” with all their might have their evil decrees torn up” has been the yesod of our yiddishkeit. To insinuate that participating in a minyan (standing 6 feet apart) and calling out “yehei shmei rabba” will have the opposite effect and actually kill people goes against all the yesodei emunah that we were taught and raised with
While I supported above Porch minyanim, I saw one mention Mikva.
No way!
There is NO way one should go to the mikvah when there is a CLEAR option of using 9 קבין
This is precisely the case wherein Halcha dictates to use that method.
Going to the mikvah is certain a situation of putting yourself in danger.
Every time you enter that mikva you transgress the issur of
ונשמרתם מ א ד את נפשותיכם!
As I understood it, he has no problem with the idea of a porch minyan from the point of view of social distancing. He wasn’t addressing backyard-style or street minyanim either which have been forbidden by the rabbonim here in EY due to the danger of contagion, even with the distance. He was addressing the issue of davening in public and out loud, which is necessary for porch minyanim while in the proximity of goyish neighbors who already hate us when we are not disturbing their peace and quiet. Here in EY, those minyanim are everywhere and throughout the day. I can imagine how it would drive a goy crazy – especially when he too is stuck at home.
When in golus, we must always remember our goyish neighbors and never do anything to provoke them. This is why we do not light the menorah outside the door on chanukah and why many people do not walk with a tallis on in the street without a coat on top of it.
I miss his drashos so much. It was a treat that this year he had to give it over the phone so I got to hear the entire drosha.
Outside Eretz Yisroel, it is definitely and completely forbidden to make minyonim!! If you mamesh can’t daven beyechidus, better not to daven! Don’t dictate to Hashem how to serve Him. Davening outside with a minyan is avoda zara. Hashem said He wants you to daven beyechidis and you’ll show Him how it’s done with a minyan. That’s right, I’ll outsmart Hashem! That’s not yiddishkeit. The mesirus nefesh for mitzvos at this moment is to daven to Hashem by yourself and alone. No one to look at. No one to listen to. Just you and Hashem. Some people can’t listen to Hashem as their culture is unfortunately stronger than their yiras shomayim.
Recognize that Hashem decides how He should be served. Not you.
OMG, we have here a real Navi who heard Hashem speak.
Puleaze, who is dictating to Hashem how to serve him? Thats utterly ridiculous. No one here is dictating to Hashem and outsmarting him. We are each looking to serve him per our best understanding. No one can truly state they know exactly what the Rotzon Hashem is. Is it the Satmar derech? Litvish? Mizrachi? Chabad? Shivim Panim La’torah. To state that “Davening outside with a minyan is avoda zara” is mamesh apikorsus.
For all those saying “mesiras nefesh” the true mesiras nefesh is doing what the ratzon hashem is, and where I live; in Lakewood, all the senior poskim said specifically not to make these minyanim. If someone has a rov that allows OK, but to just disregard rabanim and claim that’s mesiras nefesh is anything but the truth.
You want to know mesiras nefesh? The main Dr. in mayanei hayeshua hospital in Beni Brak, who treated many great Rebbes, Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivos, is a Lubavitcher chosid in his 70’s. He never touched his beard, being that hes’s Chabad. He just did, so that the mask could fit on his face properly. He said he was crying when he did it, but knew it’s the right thing.
That’s mesiras nefesh!
Let’s first define porch Minyonim: a Minyan where the participants are each on their own porch and there is no issue with social distancing. That said, most of these comments are irrelevant at best.
Why don’t you call those prominent poskim, all 4 and ask off the record if your porch is 20 feet from the next can you daven with a minyan on it. Period.
I cannot believe what I am reading here where many of you are “mesiras nefesh” to daven with a minyan. I do not want to be part of your family as it clearly states that these Minyanim will “backfire” in Shamyim.
To the ignorant masses:
Open a gemara and read what it says one should do when there is a mageifa
Until you don’t do so, you don’t have any authority to speak out against what a Godal or Rav4who states that one should daven at home byechidus
It is clear that the Rov was talking about the Montreal community, with it’s specific problems of anti-semitism and the fact that yidden live next door to goyim. Each person should follow the psak of the Rov in their city, how he sizes up that specific situation.
In Eretz Yisroel, where yidden live amongst other yidden, and especially frum yidden, the situation is very different.
In fact, R’ Moshe Shternbuch has written a long teshuva about the halachic parameters of davening properly with porch minyanim, and praises those who do so while making sure to keep all social distancing measures. The Eidah Chareidis of Yerushalayim and other rabbonim have also came out encouraging porch minyanim in Eretz Yisroel, while stressing that it is not allowed if social distancing cannot be maintained. The Israeli Government has specifically allowed it as well, and save for a few vehemently anti-frum individuals, the non-frum public doesn’t seem to mind.
While some researchers have recently claimed that the virus can spread further than 6 feet, this is still not the official stance of the various government health ministries, CDC or WHO and remains unclear if it can be proven to be so commonplace as to change the social distancing rules. Dr Fauchi of the CDC has so far disregarded these claims. Maybe on this we can say “Shomer Pesa’im Hashem”.
to “I dont get it”: you wrote “The hashpaah it had on my kids that Totty has such mesiras nefesh for davening is a level of chinuch I will never be able to accomplish by davening at home”
And what will the hashpaah be when you and maybe a couple of others at your minyan drop dead from the virus?
The chinuch for your kids will be that Totty was a total moron who thought he knew better than every medical expert. I would never want to be meshadech any of my kids with fools like you or your outdoor minyan friends.
The old saying is very true – YOU JUST CANNOT FIX STUPID!!
And the same goes for Heshy (you know who you are) with your stupid gay rants already.
LISTEN !
THE ROV WAS REFERRING TO MONTREAL
WITH VERY MANY STRONG ANTI-SEMITES AROUND
WITH THIS IN MIND, THE GOYIM ARE GOING TO USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE THAT THE JEWS ARE SPREADING THE VIRUS
AND NOT ALLOW JEWS WHO’S LIVE IS IN DANGER,FROM GETTING MEDICAL HELP,AS WE SEE WHAT HAPPENED WITH ‘TOSH” AND THE JEWISH GENERAL HOSPITAL(which the hospital should be ashamed of)
THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OF THE ROV
A GUTTEN YOM TOV
LISTEN !
THE ROV WAS REFERRING TO MONTREAL
WITH VERY MANY STRONG ANTI-SEMITES AROUND
WITH THIS IN MIND, THE GOYIM ARE GOING TO USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE THAT THE JEWS ARE SPREADING THE VIRUS
AND NOT ALLOW JEWS WHO’S LIFES IS IN DANGER,FROM GETTING MEDICAL HELP,AS WE SEE WHAT HAPPENED WITH ‘TOSH” AND THE JEWISH GENERAL HOSPITAL(which the hospital should be ashamed of)
THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OF THE ROV
A GUTTEN YOM TOV
99% of rabbonim said exactly as the Dayan said.
Can someone translate please?
We grew up that the Yesod of yiddishkeit is about mesiras nefesh for Torah Umitzvos. That Torah and tefilla protect.
The Rebbe himself states that the haters will either way hate.
So why so quick to give up. Why so worried about what the sonei yisroel will think. Suddenly tefilla Btzibbur doesnt protect us? Only when its convenient? Wheres the mesiras nefesh for our yiddishkeit????
I went to the backyard minyan on yom tov (we all stood 6 ft apart) and stood in the freezing cold for hours. The hashpaah it had on my kids that Totty has such mesiras nefesh for davening is a level of chinuch I will never be able to accomplish by davening at home
I don’t get it.
Is there any rov who said you should daven with a minyan these days? Chinuch could also mean though I want to daven with a minyan, the rabbonim said no, so we listen to them whether we understand them or not.
Yes there are many rabbonim who permit davening on porches. And why not if you are 6 feet apart or more. Many porches are as much as 20-30 feet apart. To decide Hashem doesn’t want minyanim and therefore say that even if you are many feet apart still you should not daven with a minyan is preposterous. Anyone knows anything about Halacha knows we first determine if Halacha permits something and not first determine what we feel Hashem wants us to do. If we are more then 6 feet apart and as much as 20-30 feet apart then according to the cdc we are completely permitted To gather. In that case we surely should daven with a minyan. And why would this cause chilul Hashem, if we are many feet apart we are not gathering and not breaking any rules of the cdc. And these goyim who are annoyed by this would be annoyed by our chanukah licht as well. Is it Hashem’s will that we close our doors and windows when lighting Chanukah licht as well. Chas Veshalom
I don’t get you.
You talk about mesiras nefesh for Yiddishkeit and about chinuch. Maybe now the chinuch should be that I listen to the rabbonim though I do not understand them. (Devarim 17 passuk 11 Rashi)
What about the hashpaah that totty knows better than gedolei yisroel and doctors? That just about every posek in the world said one way, but totty and his backyard minyan disagreed and were not only moser nefesh but were rotzchim as well? You should be embarrassed not proud.
Enough with the “Rotzchim” hyperbole. When it comes to shopping in grocery suddenly no one is a rotzeach?! Are the customers standing 6 feet away from the cashiers? Of course not. The pesach aisles are jammed with shoppers in close vicinity of each other. Only when it comes to tefilla Btzibbur (standing 6 feet apart) are we Rotzchim?????
Got some bad news for you, just read that sometimes this virus can travel over 13 feet and possibly longer. If there’s even a slight chasash sakana, why take chances especially with your kids?????
Do you take your kids into your car with you? Surely you are aware that every time you hit the road theres a “slight chashash sakana”……. why take chances especially with your kids?????
Answer – We do our best to drive carefully. We seat belt ourselves and our kids and follow the road rules. Same here. If we stand 6 feet apart, the risk is no greater than driving. So why give up on our koach of tefilla btzibbur?
Hashpaah on your kids?
By showing them that it is OK to break the laws of the medinah shel chesed in which you reside?
Stop playing the “holier-than-thou” act before you cause another death in Klal Yisrael, chas v’shalom.
Doug, this reminds me of what one of my roshei yeshivas used to say frequently about some of the “masmidim” in his yeshiva:
“He has a gemoorah koop. But nisht vit de commen sensen.”
Douglas
More deaths will be caused by crowded shoppers in the pesach aisles and customers standing within 6 feet of the cashiers than by me standing 6 feet away OUTDOORS in someones backyard. Why arent you bothered by the shopping situation? Is our connection to God via tefilla btzibbur any less critical to our jewish values and existence than a 5 lb bag of potatoes?
agreed. great time for sonei daas and all those who are meikel in general to have a party.
Very powerful
Thank you Matzav for posting
Esav sonei l’yaakov is true and will always be true.
As the Dayan said, it will be true regardless – whether there are porch minyanim or not.
Sadly, and I am not pointing fingers, but there were a few who disobeyed the chok hamedinah for days and even weeks, and they were those who brought the sinah of esav upon us on an even greater level.
The media were busy with those for two weeks and more, as there were sects in our Judaism who were blatantly flaunting the rules.
Perhaps now if people see that there is proper social distancing all around, and they see that even when it comes to davaning, they/we are being extremely careful and staying a house-distance away from each other, perhaps that would create some positive media.
Perhaps Hashem wants the amen yehei shemai rabbah under these circumstances. I don’t know.
It would also be nice if many or some of those on this “no minyan” bandwagon would get up publicly and proclaim that they were wrong before by defying the advice of the WHO and the CDC and the government. That would also create some positive media and dare I say a kiddush Hashem.
Gut moed to all; refuos, simchos and yeshuos – with a minyan or without
The Dayan spoke very well but let’s give our Yidden the benefit of the doubt. Non-Jews or secular Jews have no problem squishing into jammed packed subway cars, shopping in malls, going to parks and beaches in groups and are not arrested, why shouldn’t we – who are not going anywhere – be allowed to do the minimum – daven on porches?
Let’s not kid ourselves. This corona virus, like the blood libels of former times, was released from labs targeting Jews. Whatever we do, whether we daven in the house or on our porches, the anti-Semites out there will accuse us anyhow. So we might as well do what we may.
Please tell me you are joking
I dont get it, you truly dont get it. This has nothing to do with mesiras nefesh for mitzvos. This is all about protecting lives. There is no middle ground. Any gathering is a health hazard
When they will have a complete shutdown , meaning, absolutely nothing open including Walmarts etc, banks, and esp the Transit wherein there is a clear violation of Cdc rules… It is then that the porch minyanim will perhaps have to cease. Otherwise, why is minyan less important than the guy shopping in Home Depot for a project.
There are many gedolim that indeed hold you should try daven w minyan within a safe environment. Even the letter from Rav Chaim K states nothing regarding safe porch minyanim.
As Rav Gamliel Rabinowtz said: it is at a time like this that we indeeed need the protection of minyan…
Maybe we should hide our beard and payos now just to look better in the eyes of the goyim ? Or maybe we should refrain from going out all together like groceries and bank work essential places where it is permitted just because the goyim ?
would you feel safe in a shul that gave out loaded weapons for all to hold including children?
If the only way to daven Bminyan would be by holding weapons, would all minyanim stop forever? Or would we create awareness and proper training before abolishing our connection with Hashem thru tefilla btzibur?
At our backyard minyan, we have sanitizer at the entrance, everyone is properly distanced and spread out, so whats wrong? Why give up krias hatorah, Kedusha, duchanen, amein yehei shmei rabba?
Because our rabbis said so.
Those of your ilk are called ‘chasid shoteh’! hatzalah,bikur cholim,rabbanim,frum doctors,etc. are in the trenches of this war.whatever you know and think,they know one thousand times more! their hearts yearn for krias hatorah,kedusha,duchanen,amein yehei shmai rabba,etc.as much as you do! im kol zeh they beg and cry, many with tears actually streaming down their faces and beg: NO MINYANIM!not no minyan in shul,not no minyan in someones’ house, no minyan period!!!!! that includes with sanitizer,masks,gloves,500 feet between each mispallel,etc etc etc. your brilliant logic regarding buying pet project in home depot or shopping in favorite food store notwithstanding some awfully fine Jews who are moser nefesh to save Jews are actually calling those of your ilk a rodef.That should give you pause rather than gaavidik attitude that no one feels your incredible yearning for kedusha!
Though I don’t know for sure, it seems to me from the contect of the Rov’s words, that the Rov Shlita was adressing the kehilla of frume yidden in Montreal. The demographics there are such that the yidden live interspersed amongst their French Canadian neighbors, some of whom who are notoriously antisemitic.
While there is no great love for us anywhere we are in this bitter galus, I am not sure that the Rov meant the porch minyanim in self-contained frum neighborhoods (where the whole block is made up of frume yidden) such as some blocks in BP and Flatbush.
Though I may be misinformed, I have not heard of any of the Rabbanim in BP and Flatbush complaining against these minyanim with clearly proper social distancing, except perhaps strictly on halachic grounds (of which issues do exist).
On yhe next block from me 4 houses had 3 men each. they all stood on their porches while I stood in the street. Social distancing was maintained between families. Members of the same families may or may not have socially distanced.And one of the participants was a Rosh Yeshivah.
Those of your ilk are called ‘chasid shoteh’! hatzalah,bikur cholim,rabbanim,frum doctors,etc. are in the trenches of this war.whatever you know and think,they know one thousand times more! their hearts yearn for krias hatorah,kedusha,duchanen,amein yehei shmai rabba,etc.as much as you do! im kol zeh they beg and cry, many with tears actually streaming down their faces and beg: NO MINYANIM!not no minyan in shul,not no minyan in someones’ house, no minyan period!!!!! that includes with sanitizer,masks,gloves,500 feet between each mispallel,etc etc etc. your brilliant logic regarding buying pet project in home depot or shopping in favorite food store notwithstanding some awfully fine Jews who are moser nefesh to save Jews are actually calling those of your ilk a rodef.That should give you pause rather than gaavidik attitude that no one feels your incredible yearning for kedusha!
Please afford the simple courtesy to we Deplorables of publishing the sermon in English or עברית.
basic idea is because of Esav Sonei es Yaakov we know that Sinah against the Yidden is a reality. During a time of a difficult gezeirah from shomayim, when the goyim are looking at us, it is not ratzon Hashem to try to make minyanim at the expense of increasing sinas Yisrael
I do NOT believe anyone died or will die cus they davened in a minyan or went to the mikve. Yes, having purim parties without caring about warnings, and a lack of social distancing in the stores pre yt shopping and other non protective measures may have been a factor. Ludicrous to blame it on pple doing heilige things. completely loosing the plot. You don’t want to do the minyan; dont. You don’t want to go to the Mikve; don’t But to say thats the cause??????
Well, that settles it. You believe this, so, for some reason, we should, too.
RAM,
The point is not because some anonymous commentator believes so. The point is that “Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: all who respond “Yehei shmei rabbah…” with all their might have their evil decrees torn up” has been the yesod of our yiddishkeit. To insinuate that participating in a minyan (standing 6 feet apart) and calling out “yehei shmei rabba” will have the opposite effect and actually kill people goes against all the yesodei emunah that we were taught and raised with
moron!
While I supported above Porch minyanim, I saw one mention Mikva.
No way!
There is NO way one should go to the mikvah when there is a CLEAR option of using 9 קבין
This is precisely the case wherein Halcha dictates to use that method.
Going to the mikvah is certain a situation of putting yourself in danger.
Every time you enter that mikva you transgress the issur of
ונשמרתם מ א ד את נפשותיכם!
Are you guys insane!!?!
Name ONE posek who permitted it.
As I understood it, he has no problem with the idea of a porch minyan from the point of view of social distancing. He wasn’t addressing backyard-style or street minyanim either which have been forbidden by the rabbonim here in EY due to the danger of contagion, even with the distance. He was addressing the issue of davening in public and out loud, which is necessary for porch minyanim while in the proximity of goyish neighbors who already hate us when we are not disturbing their peace and quiet. Here in EY, those minyanim are everywhere and throughout the day. I can imagine how it would drive a goy crazy – especially when he too is stuck at home.
When in golus, we must always remember our goyish neighbors and never do anything to provoke them. This is why we do not light the menorah outside the door on chanukah and why many people do not walk with a tallis on in the street without a coat on top of it.
I miss his drashos so much. It was a treat that this year he had to give it over the phone so I got to hear the entire drosha.
Outside Eretz Yisroel, it is definitely and completely forbidden to make minyonim!! If you mamesh can’t daven beyechidus, better not to daven! Don’t dictate to Hashem how to serve Him. Davening outside with a minyan is avoda zara. Hashem said He wants you to daven beyechidis and you’ll show Him how it’s done with a minyan. That’s right, I’ll outsmart Hashem! That’s not yiddishkeit. The mesirus nefesh for mitzvos at this moment is to daven to Hashem by yourself and alone. No one to look at. No one to listen to. Just you and Hashem. Some people can’t listen to Hashem as their culture is unfortunately stronger than their yiras shomayim.
Recognize that Hashem decides how He should be served. Not you.
“Hashem said He wants you to daven beyechidis”
OMG, we have here a real Navi who heard Hashem speak.
Puleaze, who is dictating to Hashem how to serve him? Thats utterly ridiculous. No one here is dictating to Hashem and outsmarting him. We are each looking to serve him per our best understanding. No one can truly state they know exactly what the Rotzon Hashem is. Is it the Satmar derech? Litvish? Mizrachi? Chabad? Shivim Panim La’torah. To state that “Davening outside with a minyan is avoda zara” is mamesh apikorsus.
For all those saying “mesiras nefesh” the true mesiras nefesh is doing what the ratzon hashem is, and where I live; in Lakewood, all the senior poskim said specifically not to make these minyanim. If someone has a rov that allows OK, but to just disregard rabanim and claim that’s mesiras nefesh is anything but the truth.
You want to know mesiras nefesh? The main Dr. in mayanei hayeshua hospital in Beni Brak, who treated many great Rebbes, Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivos, is a Lubavitcher chosid in his 70’s. He never touched his beard, being that hes’s Chabad. He just did, so that the mask could fit on his face properly. He said he was crying when he did it, but knew it’s the right thing.
That’s mesiras nefesh!
Let’s first define porch Minyonim: a Minyan where the participants are each on their own porch and there is no issue with social distancing. That said, most of these comments are irrelevant at best.
Why don’t you call those prominent poskim, all 4 and ask off the record if your porch is 20 feet from the next can you daven with a minyan on it. Period.
I cannot believe what I am reading here where many of you are “mesiras nefesh” to daven with a minyan. I do not want to be part of your family as it clearly states that these Minyanim will “backfire” in Shamyim.
“as it clearly states that these Minyanim will “backfire” in Shamyim.”
Where exactly does it state that?
To the ignorant masses:
Open a gemara and read what it says one should do when there is a mageifa
Until you don’t do so, you don’t have any authority to speak out against what a Godal or Rav4who states that one should daven at home byechidus
It is clear that the Rov was talking about the Montreal community, with it’s specific problems of anti-semitism and the fact that yidden live next door to goyim. Each person should follow the psak of the Rov in their city, how he sizes up that specific situation.
In Eretz Yisroel, where yidden live amongst other yidden, and especially frum yidden, the situation is very different.
In fact, R’ Moshe Shternbuch has written a long teshuva about the halachic parameters of davening properly with porch minyanim, and praises those who do so while making sure to keep all social distancing measures. The Eidah Chareidis of Yerushalayim and other rabbonim have also came out encouraging porch minyanim in Eretz Yisroel, while stressing that it is not allowed if social distancing cannot be maintained. The Israeli Government has specifically allowed it as well, and save for a few vehemently anti-frum individuals, the non-frum public doesn’t seem to mind.
While some researchers have recently claimed that the virus can spread further than 6 feet, this is still not the official stance of the various government health ministries, CDC or WHO and remains unclear if it can be proven to be so commonplace as to change the social distancing rules. Dr Fauchi of the CDC has so far disregarded these claims. Maybe on this we can say “Shomer Pesa’im Hashem”.
to “I dont get it”: you wrote “The hashpaah it had on my kids that Totty has such mesiras nefesh for davening is a level of chinuch I will never be able to accomplish by davening at home”
And what will the hashpaah be when you and maybe a couple of others at your minyan drop dead from the virus?
The chinuch for your kids will be that Totty was a total moron who thought he knew better than every medical expert. I would never want to be meshadech any of my kids with fools like you or your outdoor minyan friends.
The old saying is very true – YOU JUST CANNOT FIX STUPID!!
And the same goes for Heshy (you know who you are) with your stupid gay rants already.
Rav Moshe Shternbuch has now written a teshuva that all who can should daven on porches maintaining social distancing.
LISTEN !
THE ROV WAS REFERRING TO MONTREAL
WITH VERY MANY STRONG ANTI-SEMITES AROUND
WITH THIS IN MIND, THE GOYIM ARE GOING TO USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE THAT THE JEWS ARE SPREADING THE VIRUS
AND NOT ALLOW JEWS WHO’S LIVE IS IN DANGER,FROM GETTING MEDICAL HELP,AS WE SEE WHAT HAPPENED WITH ‘TOSH” AND THE JEWISH GENERAL HOSPITAL(which the hospital should be ashamed of)
THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OF THE ROV
A GUTTEN YOM TOV
LISTEN !
THE ROV WAS REFERRING TO MONTREAL
WITH VERY MANY STRONG ANTI-SEMITES AROUND
WITH THIS IN MIND, THE GOYIM ARE GOING TO USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE THAT THE JEWS ARE SPREADING THE VIRUS
AND NOT ALLOW JEWS WHO’S LIFES IS IN DANGER,FROM GETTING MEDICAL HELP,AS WE SEE WHAT HAPPENED WITH ‘TOSH” AND THE JEWISH GENERAL HOSPITAL(which the hospital should be ashamed of)
THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND WAS ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OF THE ROV
A GUTTEN YOM TOV