
Dear Matzav Inbox,
I took a week to gather my thoughts after the recent mesivta farher/application debacle. I needed time to calm down and clear my mind before writing this letter. I am deeply troubled by what’s happening in some communities, and I feel compelled to speak out.
And I write this letter as a longtime mechanech myself.
Let me just say it: Any rosh mesivta, any rebbi, any menahel, anyone who operates a mesivta with the sole focus of taking in only “top boys” should be ashamed of himself. Is this what Hashem wants? Is this the standard we should be setting for our boys?
Hashem, in His infinite wisdom, entrusted us with the sacred responsibility to raise our children, to raise our sons, to become bnei Torah. Our job is to help them become yirei Shomayim, to serve Him with sincerity, to learn Torah with passion, and to be good, ehrliche Yidden. This is what we are supposed to be fostering in them.
But when did Hashem say that our sole purpose as mechanchim is to work only with the “top boys”? When did Hashem tell us that we are to only teach the ones with the greatest kishron? When did Hashem tell us that if a boy doesn’t show immediate illuyishkeit, then he is somehow unworthy of the same attention?
Who invented this demented elitist system that shmeks from gaavah, from kefirah, and from middos ra’os?
There’s been a disturbing trend where the focus has shifted away from what truly matters – the development of bnei and bnos Torah – and toward a narrow, gaavadike concept of what hatzlacha looks like. And that hatzlacha is often measured by kishron and other such metrics that have nothing to do with genuine Yiddishkeit and avodas Hashem.
When did we decide that our children should be seen as commodities to be picked and chosen like free agents?
When did we stop seeing every bochur as a neshamah with untapped potential, worthy of being nurtured with patience and care?
We are so quick to dismiss those who don’t fit the mold, to place them on the side and pretend like they’re not part of the yeshiva system. But let me remind you: every single boy and girl is a precious gift from Hashem. We have no right to look down on any of them. We have no right to disregard them based on how they measure up to a certain set of criteria that was never set by the Torah.
So what’s the message we’re sending? That only the brightest, the most gifted, are the ones who matter? That the others aren’t worthy of our time, our effort, or our care?
Shame on us if that’s what we think. What a shandeh.
Hashem didn’t give us this role of chinuch to only work with the top, the best, the easiest. He gave us this role to teach, to guide, to raise every boy with love and savlanus, regardless of his strengths or weaknesses. Because every boy has the potential to become a gadol baTorah, a yorei Shomayim and a ben Torah – but only if we give him the chance for aliyah.
The mesivta and bais medrash world today has become too caught up in looking for metzuyanim.
No one is perfect. We’re all works in progress, and we need to create environments that help all of our bochurim, no matter their starting point, to blossom into the shining sources of nachas they are meant to be.
I know I’m not the only one who feels this way. There are many out there who share my frustration, and we need to speak up. We need to make it clear that Hashem’s vision for chinuch is about helping every child, not just the “metzuyanim.”
If we continue down this path, we are doing a disservice to our boys, to our kehillos, and to the future of Klal Yisroel.
And we are also a disappointment in the eyes of Hashem.
Sincerely,
A Mechanech
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I always wonder who’s writing these letters and if it’s even true. I think there’s a few people out there who are being paid by these Jewish websites to write letters. Clickbait is amazing.
In Europe, the Yeshivos catered to the Metzuyonim because there were limited slots to fund long term Torah study in a Yeshiva. In our time, every bachur needs to go though the Yeshiva years to remain Frum.
The competition to attract the best bachurim has led to a breakdown of the admitting process. The question remains, is creating elite Yeshivos an ideal environment for a bachur to grow? Or does it just feed his ego?
Is teaching Torah to an average serious bachur not enough of an accomplishment? Can’t he also become a talmid Chochom?
As an out of town rebbe in an out of town yeshiva, I don’t waste my time with less than a Metzuyan. 90 % of the class could not care less about yeshiva education. When I meet their parents I see the father learnt nothing when he was in yeshiva in the 80’-90’s- 2000’s. I tell the father, ‘ put away the iPhone’ and listen to me. But nooooo.
I have tried to teach the father and son a few lines of baba Basra, what a joke!
I suggest trade school or the US military as a viable alternative.
The tuition gelt is gone with the wind.
At the breakfast I ask the son to lead the benching, he says I didn’t wash! I saw you eating a bagel! The father says, ‘ a bagel is technically not bread’
Rabbi 11th grade rabbi
Please find yourself another job. If you feel so strongly that nothing is being learned or accomplished by the boys in your school-even if the reason is their apathy towards learning- you should step down and try to help the school find someone who is more capable of reaching and teaching them, take your place.
I appreciate your honesty. When the lies end then progress will come.
WOW!!! Power full Truth – well said!!
Moses is Moses.
Business is business.
Dear Mechanach,
Let’s summarize what you’re teaching us by your example and behavior.
1) You can anonymously attack fellow Jews.
2) You can publicly attack fellow Jews without having attempted to privately contacted them first.
3) Do you know their thoughts and reasons? You can attack fellow Jews by creating your own assumptions as to what their reasons are.
4) What is the definition of “Metzuyanim”? How do you attack people, claiming wrongdoing, which you describe by using an ambiguous word? Cut out the ambiguous word and be clear.
Who wrote this demented elitist screed that shmeks from gaavah, from kefirah, and from middos ra’os?
We have merited so many wonderful Yehsivos and mesivtos, kein yirbu! What Hashem sent us in a short 70 years is absolutely miraculous! We should be thankful and grateful for this each and every day!
Dear Mechanech,
Kindly contact 10-20 roshei mesivtos and ask them if they only accept boys who have been blessed with above-average intellect.
Ask them to describe the type of bochur which they feel they can properly educate to Torah and Yiras Shomayim.
Ask them what would make them not accept an applicant.
Once you have done your research, please write a new letter which leads with the facts.
Thank you.
You have to stop koching!! talk is cheap. If you are a mechanech and you feel something needs to be done, then do something about it. Its easy to tell everyone else what to do.
There’s thousands of problems in society, and that’s because we are in golus. We need to daven for siyata dishmaya, the geulah off course, and everyone has to do whatever they can to build a better future. Do you truly believe that having a yeshiva with all levels and all types won’t have a huge set of problems as well?!
Anyways what prompted you to talk about this issue now? Was your son rejected by a good Yeshiva?
There is a need for Yeshivas for Metzuyanim and to some degree the Yeshiva system is inherently geared for Metzuyanim. In Lita only Metzuyanim went to and were accepted in Yeshiva to begin with. The problem is that today when everyone needs to go to Yeshiva and even the heads of the Yeshivas for Metzuyanim agree that all bochurim should be in some Yeshiva there needs to be more acceptance of that reality.
In a place where there already are enough (or too many…) Yeshivas for Metzuyanim, then someone looking to be marbitz Torah and a mechanach who is opening a Yeshiva should specifically not look for Metzyunim. In a place where a metzyun feels he doesn’t have a Yeshiva where he won’t be dragged down it is correct to open such a Yeshiva .
On a general level it is a much bigger accomplishment to have a Yeshiva that is not for Metzyunim. I went to a Yeshiva where the menehal would sometimes say “I only take in the best boys” Someone who says that should not take any pride at all in who the Yeshiva produced.
(The menahal did not not say that to boast. He was trying to say that we need to expect more from ourselves. )
Do you have a problem with the Yeshivos that specialize in problem boys?
How about the Yeshivos that are middle of the road and won’t get your child into the elite Yeshivos in Israel?
Oh right, you want to send to the “top Yeshivos“ which is why you are bellyaching about the “top Yeshivos“ being elitist for your students.
You are guilty of exactly what you are accusing these Roshei Yeshivah of, except that you perhaps don’t understand your students needs and capabilities as well as them.
The tone of the letter writer sadly does not display the temperament or humility of a responsible Mechanech. Maybe that is why he is no longer teaching and guiding our children.
There is nothing wrong with a yeshiva trying to attract the best talmidim who they perceive as having the most potential for growth abd believe will benefit most from their Rabeim and sviva.
Needless to say any talmud who initially doesnt fit into that particular yeshiva’s criteria should be acceped into a yeshiva which is structured specifically for those students who need help to grow.
The tone of the letter writer sadly does not display the temperament or humility of a responsible Mechanech.
Agreed. Though one letter, written anonymously, does not define the person.
Maybe that is why he is no longer teaching and guiding our children.
What a gratuitous insult. Where does the letter say that?? If this information which you have from a different source, why did you mention it here?
I agree 100% with the letter writer. IMO someone who feels that only “elite” students are deserving of their attention doesn’t belong in chinuch.
my son got into a great mesivta relatively easily. he is not a brilliant kid but he works extremely hard day in and day out on his learning. we did not want to send him to a place where they only take brilliant boys and he didnt feel the least bit hurt by the fact that he wasnt one of the “chosen ones” who got snatched. everyone take a chill pill. makes sense that weaker boys should be in a place with boys on their level and the opposite as well. the last thing anyone wants is for their son to feel like a failure in a place thats not on their level. is it a crime for a rosh hayeshiva to want to have kids that can keep up? not in my book. the sick thing is the fact that parents hype up the “top place” and then their kid feels like dirt if they dont get in. build up ur kids, daven that they get in for the best place for THEM. not for You. all in all didnt find this distressing… stop painting this as pure evil.
all wrong skewed people writing commnets
you guys are corrupt
rav hutner said
to teach meztuyanim you need to be a goan but to teach non- metzyanim – you need to be a goan hagoanim
Kudos to all those that understand that teach torah is not only for metzyunaim
Sir Rav Meir Shapiro had all top boys the brisker Rav had top boys only.
there are plenty idf yeshivos why does every yeshiva have to have a mix
what is wrong with a yeshiva for metzuyanim where weaker boys won’t feel inferior.
What if there is only one main shiur and they want to have the shiur on a very high level
Why must your son go to that yeshiva when there are so many yeshivos
My Rebbe, R’ Bender shlita, holds very strongly that a yeshiva needs a mix. He sets up the stronger boys to learn with the weaker boys, and says that the stronger boys gain tremendously from these arrangements.
Nobody is saying that the top boys should have a weaker boy as their main chavrusah, or that they should all be in the same shiur. A good mechanech knows what is needed to bring out the best in each individual. But R’ Bender felt that a few times a week, maybe during night seder, it was extremely beneficial to set up these types of chavrusahs.
There is no doubt in my mind that after 120 we will see many rabeim who were unknown in their lifetimes being given the tremendous reward they merit for their dedicated, selfless work teaching children of all abilities and imbuing in them a love of Torah and all that it entails.
A mechanech isn’t a dog trainer trying for the highest prize at the MSG dog show for his personal glory; he’s working with the most valuable commodity every family has and he has the awesome (and scary) power and responsibility to be madrich a child in a way that will influence him for his entire life. Does a rebbe who takes in a “metzuyan” who remains a metzuyan get more credit than a rebbe who takes in a so-so student and produces a serious learner who ends up in kolel or as a rebbe? The schar a person receives is based on what they accomplish according to their abilities and nisyonos, and not all accomplishments that we can see have equal weight in shomayim.
Kudos to the rebbe who inspires the next gadol hador. Kudos to the rebbe who inspires someone to be a fine shomer Torah umitzvos. And the one who only wants to run an “elite” yeshiva for his own personal kavod? Let him raise a blue-ribbon poodle instead.
There’s room in the world for a yeshiva catering to the elite, but yeshivas should exist in every community for other students to reach their own potential. The danger exists where too many yeshivos go for the gold, leaving everyone else out in the cold.
Rav Chaim Brisker would be shocked to find out what you think of him.
The first thing you can do is face reality. At my sons last year in elementary school, the principal called all parents for a meeting. He provided a list of yeshivos, then went on to explain the levels of the yeshivas. Like, This yeshiva is extremely intense. If your son is not made to sit for 12 hrs almost straight, this is not for your son. If you send him there, he will lose out, it’s not for him.
Another yeshiva, he said this yeshiva is intense in iyun. Ask yourself if your son is going to shteig in iyun or again your son will not succeed here.
Another one was, this is for bochurim that can’t sit for too long, not for iyun, but good kids. They have more trips etc. and work with each kid individually.
This way, he went through the whole list and encouraged every father to be honest at what’s the best for his kid. Don’t shoot for too high cause you will regret it in the end when he will be miserable in this new yeshiva.
Then there is another issue we have. It pains me to say it, but many parents are petrified if their son will learn better than they. Like one person told another one, “you don’t want your son coming home telling you something is forbidden”. Another one told this same person, “watch out, he might get a nervous breakdown from learning too much”. Yet another person told him “People that learn are arrogant”.
If you fill up your kids head with movies (not that I’m against it) or other extremely interesting things, IT DOES AFFECT THEIR CONCENTRATION IN SCHOOL! Taking your kids which vacation which have certain amenities, that have private pools, or that are stam not tznius, likewise does take away their head from learning. They don’t dream about these interesting places, things, etc only at night. It spills over to daytime when the Rebbe is trying his best to make the gemarah interesting. This is till a kid is fluent in learning and really sees that it’s way more geshmak than all the above garbage (in comparison).
To recap,
Don’t send your kid to a yeshiva that is not at his level. It’s impossible for a yeshiva to cater for all levels.
Don’t send your kid to yeshiva if you don’t want him to learn and know more than you, and your dominance feels threatened (this is only till You appreciate his gadlus!)
If any of the parents own a smartphone chas vishalom, they need not apply to these mitzuyanim Yeshivos.
Wow most of the comments just prove the point of this letter.
It’s simple Klall yisroel is in shambles because of the elitist system.
We have very few Gedolim today, because we only cater to elitist boys. Who in the end don’t turn into Gedolim.
Gedolim can’t come out of and elitist system.
Everyone else can go down the drain.
Ok so they do. And Klall yisroel is losing out.
Most of the Gedolim were products of the elitist system. While that system may not work today anymore there is no denying that the elitist exclusionary Yeshivas did in fact produce far more Talmidey Chachomim than their counterpoints.
There’s tons of yeshivas today to cater to every type of boy.
Why can’t someone make a yeshiva for the top boys?
Not that I’d ever send my own kid there , but I can’t tell him not to.
Your worried for his ruchinios?
Let him fight it out with GD .
I think your comment is negative. We can do anything including a top notch yeshiva where everyone wants to be there and learn there.
Your negative comments are destroying my religion and faith.
To a yid
I have 5 sons who were not metzuyonom but in behavior and Midos they were from the bestThe yeshiva they went to had no Mesivta and sad to say EVERY SINGLE WORD this letter writer wrote is true. The system today is one big cesspool (disclaimer of course not everyone) first why is there so much focus on marks yes I understand accountability but are these kids in 7th grade applying to be a Rov, a Dayan??? How do you think a 12 year old kid who has good behaviour feels when he gets into some Bais level program in June or august I can tell you one thing it doesn’t help their yiras Shomayim and any respect for a Talmud chochom or rosh yeshiva is out the window.
To A YiD
I’m happy you only had positive experiences with the Mesivta system
I have 5 sons who were not metzuyonom but in behavior and Midos they were from the bestThe yeshiva they went to had no Mesivta and sad to say EVERY SINGLE WORD this letter writer wrote is true. The system today is one big cesspool (disclaimer of course not everyone) first why is there so much focus on marks yes I understand accountability but are these kids in 7th grade applying to be a Rov, a Dayan??? How do you think a 12 year old kid who has good behaviour feels when he gets into some Bais level program in June or august I can tell you one thing it doesn’t help their yiras Shomayim and any respect for a Talmud chochom or rosh yeshiva is out the window.
Middos mean nothing. Middos are for the loh yutzlachs. If you want to be a success and get that top tiered shidduch, you’ve got to be the smartest brightest and you have to be exceptionally good looking. Nothing personal. These are just the reality.
What do the following have in common?
Rav Moshe Feinstein
Rav Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik
The Satmar Rov
The Lubabitcher Rebbe
The Chazon Ish
Rav Eliyashev
…
None of them ever learned in yeshiva for any long period of time.
Gedolim are not made in yeshivas.
I was kicked out of yeshiva, I qualify as a godol.
As Rav Yaakov Kamentsky once put it “Had Rav Ahron Kotler not learned in a Yeshiva he Could have been what he was in Noshim and Nezikin in all of Torah. But Had Rav Ahron Kotler not learned in a Yeshiva he Would have become Rav Ahron Kotler in absolutely nothing…”
Rav Moshe Feinstein was very critical of the idea of starting impendent out of Yeshiva learning in the United States.
And some of the names on your list would have been a lot better off had they attended a Yeshiva…Even if the Yeshiva would have been Tomchei Tmimim…Let alone what they could have become had they learned in Brisk…
Sink or swim stop cuddling your bubula in Europe at 13 he’d be working in a black Smith shop at 4 am in 0 degrees. If he can’t swim at at elite level let him swim in a regular pool.