Matzav Inbox: The Insanity of Summer Schedule – Husbands in the City, Wives in the Mountains

“this is shy our kids look like this”
“this is not ‘normal'”

Guess what? once upon a time the husbands and fathers used to go away on business trips for MONTHS, same goes for a huge amount of the yeshiva kollel guys, chasidim by their rebbes etc ? That used to be ‘normal’. So calm down.

You nicely skip the only one true issue which is what the husbands do on their own the entire week in the city

Oh my, you’re totally contradidcting yourself, you ‘care’ that the husbands leave to mother to ‘cope’ all by themselves, but one sentence later complain about the mother yapping all day in the circle – seems like they’re coping very fine

This has been going on for 75-80 years. You woke up NOW?!?!?!

i am a 75 year old man and my parents did the same thing and all us 7 children grew up normal and we have wonderful children, grand-children, and great grand-children. So ii don’t know what you are talking about. That hole generation did this and they are all normal So don’t discourage this generation. You are being unfair. I would encourage all the younger generations to keep doing this they are doing thjs for parnasa purposes.

When will the insanity of thinking one size fits all end? No two people are the same, No two marriages are the same. Why do people think that because they are experiencing a problem it must be everyone else in the world is also experiencing that same problem??

I share your feelings. I could have written this. But I didn’t because I believe it is like much in the current frum world. These are trends that emerge, develop a life of their own, and are followed by many “just because”. I’m not really sure that it is about global warming, but the use of A/C inthe country is close to universal, and just about identical to life in the city. For decades, people have been saying that the mountains are so good for the kids that it was believed that denying this was bad parenting, even abuse. The expense was considered a necessity, not a luxury. But that is how the community has devolved. My reaction to this letter is “Ho, hum.” Brocho levatoloh.

This letter is riddled with inaccuracies, half truths and innuendo. I wonder if this is written by a bitter man or woman trapped in a bad marriage, or, someone simply jealous that they dont have the luxury of spending the summer, even part of it, out of the city.

“And don’t tell me, “It’s just for the summer.” That’s two months of distance, of miscommunication, of drift.”
Is it? Spouses dont communicate all week during the summer? You took a poll of married couples? Miscommunication? Thats not even possible if there is NO communication. Fathers dont speak with their kids?

“Two months of wives hanging out in the bungalow colony in “make believe world.” Is rest and relaxation, make believe? Is it all hanging out?

The letter writer is so far removed from reality, it begs the question, what did he or she smoke or drink before submitting this letter?

This is not a recent thing. Families were doing this in the 1930s. My parents, as children, spent summers in the catskills (in boarding houses) and the fathers come up for Shabbos and went back to work on Sunday. It was not “abnormal” and the children were able to be in the country for a few weeks. It did NOT destroy family/married life; my parents turned out fine.

This has got to be one of the dumbest articles, if you can call it that, ever. Full of lies and distortion. A very bitter jealous writer. Why does Matzav even allow such trash? Just to get a couple extra hits? You’ve moved on from the “missing seforim” WZO scandal?

Do you know what the situation in Europe was for the week the whole year round? Husbands left right after shabbos

Wow! This has been going on for more than 60+ years. What happened suddenly?

Amen to the brutal thruth . Were are our rabbonim ? Go to the manhattan bars and you can see many of these husbands “enjoying” their vacations

Just wondering….in the time of the Gemara the husbands would go to learn in Yeshiva and come home twice a year !! Did Chazal not think that it’s “bad” for the marriage ?? What about those people who live in Eretz Yisroel and “commute” to America weekly or bi-weekly, is that also “insane” ?? The summer-in-the-mountains is a part of the yearly cycle and it’s insane to call it “insanity”. The priorities are having the wife and children get a break in the summer and getting away from the routine as well as getting out of the hot city. The husband staying all week in the city is the way to make it work financially. Nothing more than that.
Some people find it difficult perhaps to adjust to this setup and it’s all right to not do it, but to go on a rant against this setup says more about the mind of the letter writer (as well as the state of his marriage) than the state of the marriage of the people who see this as a practical way to have a break.
Bottom Line: You don’t like it….DON”T GO !!! Those who go seem to be okay with it.
KEEP YOUR GUILT TRIP TO YOURSELF !!!

Let’s sum up the debate in one line, on an individual basis if you keep on doing something ..it means that the pluses outweigh the minuses
Kids going to camp is forced, bungalow is a choice maybe a big fight
No decent wife goes to the country if her husband is miserable. Crazy as it is ppl not only want to go but are Willing to do anything to come
The bigger issue is tthe exorbint cost which be ones 100k on Amex in 8 years

Here was go again .
I think this was in the Jewish Press 47 years ago .
It`s no longer called telecommuting .
It`s called work from home .
BTW most of our culture is based on doing thing because of the “everyone else ” syndrome the list goes on and on for better of for worse .

some marriages work out better when the spouse is away
glad you dont have one of those

Couldn’t have said it any better!

Gut Gezogt!
I always ask myself, do people hate their lives so much at home that they run away from it FOR TWO MONTHS????

With the level of immodesty, specifically in the summer, is there another choice but to run away with the children, especially bachurim???

Sounds like a disgruntled husband.

I live in a pretty decent sized out of town community. I frankly don’t even understand why people would willingly choose to live in a place where the family feels the need to escape for 2 + months of the year. A place where you need to earn $100s of thousands more to just live. You don’t really get mch bang for your buck. You have a hard time finding a parking spot near your house, shul, schol or doctor. You have an old house that has virtually no outdoor space for you to live and enjoy.
Come move out-of-town where you can earn less, you can live all 12-months of the year together with your husband, you can park by your house, you can enjoy your yard, you can easily get your children into to-notch schools.
There is a whole world out here, open your minds and come enjoy!!

You are so correct. It is a sad yearly ritual. If the father/husband is from the few that can stretch each weekend to a full 3 days+, that’s a different story – but most can’t do that – many can’t even come up Thursday night. It’s total madness.
As for the Yiddishkeit part of it – talk to the Rabbonim that have to deal with the sholom bayis aftermath of couples seeing what is doing by their neighbors.
Then of course is the unbelievable cost of it all. The tolls, gas, car repairs, increased cost of food, etc. It adds up very quickly and for most people it will kill your budget.
Let’s not forget the siyata dishmaya that is needed that drivers do not get into accidents by driving too quickly and/or tired.
But this will not change until Moshiach comes.
I am not complaining, as I am from the lucky that stay in the city. It is very peaceful, quiet, ample parking, and no traffic.

Reminds me of of the saying attributed to Rav Yoel Teitelbaum a”h, Zy”a 50 years ago
“Oib the regirung hut gamacht a gezetz as men dafen aveck furen in counry faar 8 vochin
volt the Rabbanim goizer taanis geven . ”
loosely translated :
If the government made a law that we have to exile ourselves to the mountains every summer for 8 weeks ,
the Rabbanim would have declared a fast .
The old reason was “for the kids” . They should get relief from the bad influences of the city .
Get some fresh clean air. Have the safety of leaving little ones unattended for hours and remain safe .
Socialize .
The truth is that the country costs have become unaffordable for many .
The old bungalow colonies have given away to luxury summer homes .
When everything is said and done overall the summer environment has beneficial effects on the children and most of the marriages.
There has been some movement away from the traditional Catskills to other areas including Fleishman’s, Tannersville ,Wurtsboro , Monroe , the Poconos etc which have the potential of decreasing the pressure cooker atmosphere of the Catskills.

PLEASE CORRECT MY MISTAKE …
IT SHOULD BE
Rav Yoel Teitelbaum ZY”A

Or anything you know is appropriate to say with the Satmer Rebba

100 percent!!!!! Thanks for saying it!

There is one main answer to all of the problems with protocol or accepted culture:
Do the right thing and stop caring about what other think about you for making that choice.
We can not change the entire world.
Just take care of yourself

This letter is absurd. I spent all my childhood years in the bungalow colony with those arrangements. They were the absolute best weeks of my life and I looked forward to it every year. We in BVG bungalows in the 80s and 90s still greet each other decades later with the fondest memories. There was something about it that transcended regular life. We lived in one bedroom but made the most of the outdoors and friends. True, we must thank our parents for the mesiros nefesh they had on our behalf.

I regret that as a Lakewood parent I was unable to provide my own children with the same experience. What we learned from this experience was, how to work the social world, how to utilize nature (especially us city kids!) how to manage on little gashmiyus, survival skills, and so much more! We learned that husbands and wives can be dependent on each other, and that they can also survive without each other because they can talk at night (on a rotary phone) for a few minutes.

We learned to appreciate Totty when he came up on Friday, brought treats and stuff and how to deal with the sadness of him departing on Sunday evening.

I’ve never seen it discussed before, but the author (as usual anonymous) makes some good points. But, the problem is that IN ANY EVENT for Brooklyn city dwellers, among those who can afford it, family life will be fractured during the summer with kids at sleep away camps who don’t see Totty and mommy for 8 weeks. And for stable marriages, why should the wives be subject to an oppressive summer in the city, since anyway the kids are not around. And most men are willing to get even the 2-3 days respite in the country, even if the quality is not 100%. And believe me, there are more important things to rant about such as men and strange women “shmoozing” in the country, lack of tanius, etc and much worse.

Don’t tell me what’s normal. All year long I have to greet a sweaty, stinky husband coming home after a long day’s work and then a ride on a hot subway. I don’t want to hear about his hard day or the train’s a/c that didn’t work – too bad, that’s what he signed up for! Of course I don’t have supper ready for him, but when he puts some food together, he’s always in my way – what, a cheese sandwich isn’t good enough for his majesty? And boy, does he snore when he goes to sleep after he finally finishes vacuuming, mopping and doing the kids’ homework with them. And then, at 5:00 AM his alarm rings, waking me up! How inconsiderate! He’s the one who works for a living, not me – why should I get up before 9:00, just because he needs to be in the office by 6:30?
You know what “Husband” is an acronym for? Hairy Unkempt Slob, Boorish And Needs Deodorant. I have more to say, but it’s my daily pool time, followed by my beauty nap. I just had my nails done, so we’ll be ordering in tonight. Toodles!

This rant lacks context. It also lacks evidence of any of its claims. Before air conditioning was standard fare (not so long ago, maybe late ‘50s early’60s), this arrangement was pretty much an only option. The fact that it has been continuously carried over to nowadays is likely because except in extreme cases where a husband has “problems”, it by and large works. The author seems to dislike the “yente” stigma associated with the ladies yapping about stupidities all day, and I do understand that, but evidence that the core family is greatly affected in many cases is severely lacking (as is evidence of “wayward” husbands in significant numbers). Nowadays, Torahdik families are not so into this anymore, b”h, but to “shrei” without proper context etc is probably not called for either

Rav Avigdor Miller was asked that, and he said the same.

To see Rav Miller zt”l’s words related to this, go to Toras Avigdor website, proceed to Q & A section, and do a search for “bungalow marriage”.

The letter writer is obviously right that the “country” situation is very much not normal and should not be accepted as such. If it happens to work for some, then good for them. But it is certainly not normal and there are many serious concerns with that “country” situation, unless the father/husband can work remotely and therefore stay in “the country” with his wife and family.

Spouses should be living in the same home as each other, and both parents should be living in the same home as their children. Yeshiva and lihavdil sleep-away camps are obviously a different matter.

It is silly to compare this “country” situation to hundreds of years ago when people had to travel overseas by boat or for weeks on end by horse and wagon just to earn a living. The crucial difference is that in that example they needed to go away from their home in order to make money, whereas the whole “country” thing involves the family leaving their homes, not the father/husband leaving.

Sorry to inform you some people have such an arrangement all year long. The husband is away most of the week or he comes home after the kids go to sleep at night so the kids see him for a few minutes in the morning if they’re lucky!! Then hopefully he spends quality time with the kids all week

get a job

Its extremely cruel towards the husband for a wife and children to go on a eight week vacation spree while the husband shvitzes in the city, all alone and then has to work hard all year round to pay for the family’s vacation.

i believe r avigdor miller ztl discussed this…. everyone has to consult their own das torah as with everything else in life

WHEN I WAS A REBBE IN A PROMINENT BROOKLYN YESHIVA. ONE MY PARENTS OF MY TALMIDIM, A BAL BUAS AND VERY CONFORTABLE, DROVE A MOTORCYCLE AS A HOBBY.
TOLD ME, RABBI , I AM GIVING ADVICE FOR THE SUMMER. GO UP ONCE A WEEK, EVEN FOR A FEW HOURS.
I FOLLOWED HIS ADVICE AND WE HAD A BETTER SUMMER.TRY IT.

And if they stay home for the summer, what do the kids do? The astronomical price of sleep away ,or even day camp, makes this option unaffordable for most large families. Sitting at home playing video games, cruising the streets? Suggest some affordable alternatives to the upstate bungalow experience.

The reason why this bungalow minhag started in the first place was originally to avoid the influences of the street and to survive the summer heat. (Heat and better-quality air was actually the main reason. Additionally, summer camps in the mountains used to provide food and a healthier environment for poor city children who lacked that.)

Please remember in the times before air-conditioning, New Yorkers sometimes slept summer nights on flat roofs or fire escapes – and even then, that didn’t provide enough relief.

Rav Avigdor Miller’s daughter remembers him fanning her and her siblings with a piece of cardboard while the children slept at night.

New York in the summer without A/C is pretty much insufferable.

Summer epidemics of polio also drove people to the mountains and beaches.

That’s why summer in the bungalow used to work out for families – they had vital reasons for doing it. But nowadays, it’s an unnecessary and very expensive hassle.

Nowadays, most people live in 2-story homes with a backyard and central air-conditioning.

I myself live in Eretz Yisrael in an apartment and at the most, we might vacation up North for a few days. It’s hot in the summer and we manage happily without running away for 2 months.

And New Yorkers can do the same. Why spend the entire summer in the bungalow, especially at so much expense?

Take trip/vacation for a few days, a week, two weeks, if you’d like and that’s it.

Q:
Should a husband and wife separate in order to go to the country in the summer?

A:
In general, a husband and wife should never separate. That’s the purpose of having a wife and having a husband. והיו לבשר אחד – And they will become one flesh (Bereishis 2:24). You don’t separate from your hands or from your feet. You have to realize that it’s one personality. It’s not just a team, it’s a personality. They must always be together.

Now, it doesn’t mean that when he goes to the synagogue that she has to be in the background. Or that when she’s going, let’s say, to the sewing club, that he should hang around and look on, no. Each has his or her separate interests, but in general, they’re together.

Sometimes, he has to go away on a trip for work; he can’t take her along, it can’t be helped. A woman, however, just to go off on a pleasure trip someplace without her husband, that’s not to be recommended at all. Unless she has to go for certain business that the husband cannot go along. Let’s say, she has to go for some purpose, she can’t remain behind. And he has to remain here because of his business, that’s something else. But just for the sake of pleasure to separate, that’s against the principles on which marriage is founded.
TAPE # 508 (June 1984)

Q:
Is it proper this bungalow style vacation where the wife sees her husband only on Shabbos?

A:
And the answer is, if it’s a benefit for the children then it’s proper. Because עמלנו אלו הבנים – All of our work is our children. If the children in the bungalow can have a better environment than in the city, if they can have a very good rebbe, and very good chaveirim or chaveiros, then it’s worth it.

The only criterion is how much ruchniyus will the children gain. And on that basis this kind of arrangement is justified.
TAPE # 517 (August 1984)

Rav Avigdor Miller on Bungalow Marriages

Q:
Should a husband and wife separate in order to go to the country in the summer?

A:
In general, a husband and wife should never separate. That’s the purpose of having a wife and having a husband. והיו לבשר אחד – And they will become one flesh (Bereishis 2:24). You don’t separate from your hands or from your feet. You have to realize that it’s one personality. It’s not just a team, it’s a personality. They must always be together.

Now, it doesn’t mean that when he goes to the synagogue that she has to be in the background. Or that when she’s going, let’s say, to the sewing club, that he should hang around and look on, no. Each has his or her separate interests, but in general, they’re together.

Sometimes, he has to go away on a trip for work; he can’t take her along, it can’t be helped. A woman, however, just to go off on a pleasure trip someplace without her husband, that’s not to be recommended at all. Unless she has to go for certain business that the husband cannot go along. Let’s say, she has to go for some purpose, she can’t remain behind. And he has to remain here because of his business, that’s something else. But just for the sake of pleasure to separate, that’s against the principles on which marriage is founded.
TAPE # 508 (June 1984)

Q:
Is it proper this bungalow style vacation where the wife sees her husband only on Shabbos?

A:
And the answer is, if it’s a benefit for the children then it’s proper. Because עמלנו אלו הבנים – All of our work is our children. If the children in the bungalow can have a better environment than in the city, if they can have a very good rebbe, and very good chaveirim or chaveiros, then it’s worth it.

The only criterion is how much ruchniyus will the children gain. And on that basis this kind of arrangement is justified.
TAPE # 517 (August 1984)

Oiy, he’s vight. My husband doodles away all of his time at group of comic book addicts, staring thru comic books for hours. I miss him so much all veek long and our time together is so short that it doesn’t go vell. All i vant is to share a slow bowl of chicken soup together and some bonding. Ven ve are together at hime all veek long dis happens but ven ve’re separated by the bungalow, all I can do all day is kvetch vith the other wives. Vaiting for liberation vhen all de bungalos and camps are closed for good, ve return to summer life in the city and use de savings to eat pickles together on Delancy.

if it works for you great if not not. do whatever works for you