
Dear [email protected],
There is an issue that I would like to bring to the attention of the tzibbur.
A few months ago, I attended a simcha where I had an uneasy feeling about the level of kashrus. With just a few inquiries at the event, I was made aware about how ignorant we, the consumer, are. I am no expert in the kashrus field, but something just didn’t sit right with me.
Since then, I have been keeping my eyes open. I have made it my business whenever attending any kind of simcha or event where there is food being served to inquire about who is responsible for the kashrus. The result has been a fascinating, revealing experience. Many times, I have walked away feeling truly impressed and assured about the level of kashrus, yet in others I was left feeling quite surprised (What would the people eating here say if they knew who they were trusting?), and sometimes I left feeling disappointed, bothered, and even truly shocked.
I am not writing this letter to share my personal assessment and opinion about what I have discovered is going on, but rather to encourage anyone reading this to formulate their own opinion.
I would like to make a suggestion: The next time you attend any event where there is food, make a few simple inquires.
Go to the kitchen and ask the caterer or the party planner who is responsible for the hashgocha of the food before it comes to the hall, and who is responsible at the actual event. Ask them to point out to you who the mashgiach temidi is.
When you go to a Kiddush, ask the rov of the shul who is responsible for the kashrus of the Kiddush. Who is making sure everything that comes into the shul has a proper hechsher?
Ask the baalei simcha who is responsible for the kashrus here.
When you go to a restaurant, ask who the mashgiach temidi is.
When calling up a home business to order a gift of cake, candy, or a meat platter, ask them: “Do you have a hechsher?”
Ask the worker behind the takeout in the supermarket, “Where is the mashgiach?”
I can assure you that you will find this to be a very interesting and eye-opening experience. You will decide on your own whether you think what is going on is normal or not.
P.S. I want to add another important point. There are many products sold in local frum supermarkets from Eretz Yisroel with an Israeli hechsher on them. There are some Israeli hechsheirim that bnei Torah would not touch, yet people are not familiar with the Israeli list and just assume that anything is good. It may be worth your while to do a little research.
Hatzlocha rabbah.
Yechiel B.
Lakewood NJ
{Matzav.com}
Some simcha halls post the letter of the Rav Hamachshir. I have been to weddings where there is a placard on the table with notification of the hechsher, authored by the Rav. I would hope these placards are maintained under guard by the Rav. I have already known of hechsher stickers that ended up in rogue hands and placed on non-kosher foods.
The OU has staff that scouts stores in frum neighborhoods and others looking for products bearing an unauthorized OU on the label. This can occur by mistake. Such auditing has been done by OU for many years. Since the NYS office that monitors compliance to kosher laws was dissolved, such auditing is crotical.
Was at a Bris. Waiter (Not Jewish) turned on the burner to make the eggs. Food came from a bagel shop (Just dropped off!!) but everything else was done by a party planner. We turned the burner off and restarted it ourselves but no-one was even aware!
Planners are now basically doing catering but they do not have Hashgacha as far as I am aware
Sadly so, so true! Every single point you pointed out is so, so on the money. I once asked a caterer exactly that question and he berated me and even yelled that if I didn’t trust “him” I shouldn’t eat. He was, he said, the most trusted caterer in the line and I had chutzpa for even inquiring! What was so wrong with my question? Until you open letter I used to think that I was wrong for having asked!
“Ask the baalei simcha who is responsible for the kashrus here.”
NO. ask anyone OTHER than the baal simcha. for 2 reasons;
A: The baalei simcha have enough on their minds greeting guests, making sure everything is ok, etc.
B: By asking the Baal simcha, you will shter their simcha, as they most likely will see your question as implying that something is wrong.
Reb Yechiel, you’re assuming that there is always a mashgiach temidi. That is incorrect. Most kashrus do NOT have a mashgiach temidi. All you have, many times, is some non religious yid wearing a paper yarmulke manning the cash register. This is especially true by many of these fast food take out joints. All the employees are foreign goyim. The only “Jew” in the building, is standing by the register. Same thing with many of the Shabbos kiddushim/Sheva brachos/auf rof seudah, the waiters are goyim. The Jew wraps up the food in the establishment. After that, it’s all goyim. I’ve been saying this for years, but people just laugh it off. They’re too busy assuring cellphones and pas palter.
עד אחד נאמן באיסורים ask questions .verify.and choose what ti do
I just had a party planner do a Simcha for me and I was surprised to show up on שבת and meet a mashgiach in the kitchen directing the staff.
Rabbi Yudel Shain has been trying to get the attention of the unknowing public for a very long time. If the letter writer is concerned, he should reach out to Reb Yudel shlita
NOTHING NEW.
IT SOUNDS LIKE U DISCOVERED AMERICA !!!!!
I KNOW THIS FOR YEARS.
NOTHING CHANGED
EVERY EHRLICH YID KNOWS HOW WHAT TO EAT.
GOOD LUCK
So you’re saying it’s okay to continue this way?
no, he is saying that anyone who does not do so is not ehrlich.
I dont know why it’s in all caps
finally
Overwhelming majority of people will it in any eatery that claims to be kosher and especially if it posts a hechsher. People have no knowledge orshow any concern as to whether a particular hechsher is reliable.
Dear Yechiel,
In your entire message you do not list one thing. You said you had an ” uneasy feeling” about the kashrus and how ignorant we all are.
How about making the point of sharing what it is you found that validated your uneasy feeling.
If you’re going to argue a point, make one first. Tell the oilam what it is you specifically found.
You’re suggesting that everyone ask the caterer who the mashgiach is. Well that would mean two things. You dont trust the person making the simcha and now 300+ people will be bothering the caterers with the same question.
I’ve been in kitchens at simchas and hotels.
I dont understand how anyone who is concerned about kashrus would step into a hotel for pesach.
Every hotel , with the holiest hechsher is subject to errors and they happen every year. How do I know? I speak to the mashgichim that are hired. They laugh if I ask is it 100% pesachdik.
But nobody wants to hear that. So they stick their head in the sand.
The best way to keep kosher Is dont eat out. Dont trust anyone or trust the responses that caterers give you. That way you’ll be safe and never eat something you shouldn’t.
This issue is particularly true of Shabbos simchas in halls where the heimishe caterer dropped off everything before Shabbos, Perhaps he set the food on the blech (hope so). He may even drop in during the simcha to check that all is going well. But most of the time there are multiple goyim making the portions. That leaves lots of room for kashrus and shmiras Shabbos problems. If the baal simcha was thoughtful, he may have ordered a mashgiach to be there throughout, but most put their trust in the caterer – after all, he is a frum Yid.
I was once at a chasunah where the caterer is under a good hashgacha, but the baal simcha purchased wines to put on each table. I noticed that the wines were not mevushal. I mentioned this to the caterer who said it is not his responsibility, but quickly went and removed all the wines anyway. Most bottle were empty or near empty by then.
Guest beware – you are on your own.
While this is a very big issue and it’s nothing new. Many of the people who are careful about these things here in the USA will eat in places in Israel that are worse then the places they won’t eat at here in the USA. I’ve personally seen Rabbonim eating in places in Israel where the meat is only glatt on occasion and that’s assuming the meat got to the Hotel without any issues of Bosur shenisalem min haayin. This issue is an issue that starts at the top down and it really needs to be corrected. (And if I dare say it’s this issue more then any other that is the cause of kids going off the derech. How can you blame them with all the timtum halev that they have.) With all this in mind and the fact that people don’t care if you go to a restaurant and they have a hechsher even if the mashgiach is not there all the time it is not a reason to be upset at the hashgacha. The reason being that depending on the establishment some places really only need a nichnas veyotzay and others work on a combination of a lesser mashgiach who is there at all times and on top of him is a mashgiach that is coming and going. While these types of arraignment might not be ideal for what you want it is by no means a knock on the hashgacha. It must also be understood that every hashgacha has to rely on leniencies and there is NO hashgacha that is perfect if someone is looking for perfect then they would need to do everything by themselves or in chaburos (these do exist in Israel).
With all this in mind I’d like to take a moment to appreciate what all the Hashgachos do to enable us to have many products and services with ease. Additionally I will like to encourage people to ask about what is being done because it lends gravity to the importance of a good hashgacha and enables hashgachos to improve and encourages businesses to improve their hashgachos.
(Case in point of where peoples interest improved the hashgacha of a restaurant is a certain very popular restaurant in Israel that a few people convinced the owner to try using a better hechsher and then the Rav of a community told his kehilah they should check and as long as it’s under that hechsher they can eat there. The restaurant has since upgraded to an even better hechsher as the owner saw it made a difference to people and brought in more business.)
I worked in several different Pesach programs and as much as I did the best that I could the kitchen facilities were huge and there 12 other mashgichim too, a couple of which were not the greatest especially the guy who was on overnight. I used to just make my own food and eat my own food in my room. That is my best recommendation for anyone who “has to go” to a Pesach program because of their extended family… cook you own food and eat in your room before or after meal times in the dining room and just eat matzah and other packaged food in the hotel dining room
There is even a greater problem with some party/event planners who get food from a variety of home businesses without ANY hashgacha – some of them homes that many would never eat in. All for the sake of having a “unique” event! Very sad.
“who the mashgiach temidi is”
Mashgiach temidi is not a halachic requirement.
“the NYS office that monitors compliance to kosher laws was dissolved”
It is still there. The Division of Kosher Law Enforcement. It is probably the best example of wasteful government spending. I have yet to meet any Jew who relies on its hechsher.
Many years ago I had breakfast with Rav Kreisworth Zt”zl and a young Chasidishe Shoichet at the home of a Gabai to a Chasidishe Ruv. During this meal we discussed various kashrus topics. I asked the Rav why some people were saying that _________’s hashgocho, at that time, was not reliable. The Rav asked the Shoichet to answer. The Shoichet stated that he used to shecht at _________. He raised his hand to his head and said that _________’s standard of kashrus was this high and anything that fell below was discarded. He then raised his hand way above his head and said that the well known Chasidishe company where he was currently employed as a Shoichet had standards so high! And anything that fell below that standard they found a heter for!
What in the world is your point?
Reb Yechiel. You are uneasy because of your questions? I might be uneasy if you shared some of the answers received.
That’s alright. You can keep your head buried very nicely in the sand. See no evil, hear no evil.
NOTHING NEW.
IT SOUNDS LIKE U DISCOVERED AMERICA!!!!!
I KNOW THIS FOR YEARS.
NOTHING CHANGED
EVERY EHRLICH YID KNOWS HOW WHAT TO EAT.