Matzav Inbox: Why I Live in Chutz Laaretz: The Disgusting Anti-Chareidi Rhetoric is Not for Me

I was once asked by a taxi driver who picked me up at the airport why I still live in the USA and not Israel. “Because in America we have freedom of religion”, I answered.

FYI, all Yidden no matter where they live are still in Golus. Don’t drink the Zionist coolaid.

What is the point of this article. This is exactly the right time that you should come to Israel and show the other what it means to be a Frum Yid, and make a Kiddush Hashem. This is exactly the right time, when we can do our part to build Eretz Yisrael with a vision that takes into account Ahavas Hashem, Ahavas Hatorah, Ahavas Am Yisrael and Ahavas Haaretz.

Nebach. I really feel for you.

So no such rhetoric exists in golus, about Chareidim or about all Orthodox or about all Jews? Your pristine little neighborhood is hermetically sealed against unpleasantness? Wake up!

Hey live in EY and affect a change! Let them see the folly of their position as was evidenced in B’nai Brak last week! The ability to go to the Kosel, Chevron, Kever Rachel, Maran’s kever, Meron etc. don’t talk to you?

Moshiach can’t come until the erev rav are completely destroyed. Let’s daven shtark for their quick downfall.

As another American Charidie I also does not live in Eretz Yisroel but for the oppisite reasons. I do not feel that I can bring up my children in the Israeli Chareidi system without having grown up in it myself.

I highly doubt the author of this letter is being wholly truthful with his motives for not living in Eretz Yisroel. Did he live there before this all erupted?

Thirty years ago I was a bochur learning in Brisk, living right off Meah Shearim full of kanois against the “Zionists” and their hostility to frum world. I first started to rethink my approach when I was busy sounding off to some Americans who (in my view) were too ignorant of the issues. One of the comments I made was about the hostility of the secular Israeli press to the frum world as opposed to the secular Jewish American press (today they are equally hostile, but back then the secular Jewish American press rarely had anti frum articles or editorials) One of the people answered that there is a major difference. The American frum community does not try to force secular Jewish Americans to keep mitzvas, does not harass them personally for things like driving on Shabbos, does not demand money from them for their institutions, never initiates public confrontation with them etc. etc. etc. If they did things would probably be very different in the US as well.

V’ain l’harich b’zeh

Living in the Holy Land is a zchus, a merit, even if there are Leftists, Erev Rav, anti-Chareidim, anti-Semites and other undesired elements – like in the rest of the world – living among us.

Shivui netel
Share The Burden
Don’t continue to cop-out, especially if it is difficult

Matzav Inbox: Why I Live in Chutz Laaretz: The Disgusting Anti-Chareidi Rhetoric is Not for Me

But the rhetoric and antisemitism in places like The New York Times, secular Jewish publications like The Forward, and a big part of the online world is for you?

The Democruds will soon make it up and become as bad if not worse than any left leaning Israeli.

Charedim bring it on themselves eg after whining about it for at least a generation they took some political pork instead, refused to stand & rally for
Bagatz
Reform
Backslapping temporarily each other for those fake media blip accolades,waiting to be fed to the alligator last but then swiftly complaining again as usual eg like this post

I agree, but shalom must go both ways and the anti-secular hate speech must also be toned down

Chazal tell us, “It’s better to live in Eretz Yisroel in a city of idol worshippers than in a toradik neighborhood in Galus.”
Besides, they only hate us because of our actions or inaction. This is a widely accepted Jewish hashkafa. Everything that happens in the world is because of our actions.
Plus, I think you’re overrating how bad it is. Please chill.

Charedim there bring it on themselves eg after whining about it for at least a generation they took some political pork instead, refused to stand & rally for
Bagatz
Reform
Backslapping temporarily each other for those fake media blip accolades,waiting to be fed to the alligator last but then swiftly complaining again as usual eg like this post

HONESTY PLEASE

Can you dig a little deeper and share what real concerns you have?
Perhaps there are financial reasons you prefer not to move to EY or many other things that could be.
But this alone is absolutely not a reason. For example, the entire anti-religious Yeshiva regulations – if you’re bored, and want to hear what all the anti-Frum people have to say in the USA, maybe you want to reconsider moving out of the states, maybe the moon is a good place??

No one should be subjected to vitriolic rhetoric or made to feel like a burden or outsider in their own homeland.

The irony of this sentence must have gone completely over the head of the guy who wrote it…

Yes, there is a tremendous amount of anti-Chardie sentiment among certain segments in Israel. Let us not pretend that it would not be a lot less if certain segments of the Charidei community in Israel minded their own business instead of being so confrontational and pouring so much vitriol on their secular adversaries.

Dear A Yid In Golus,

As an avid Matzav reader for many years, I am actually quite shocked that they have chosen to give credence to this article, which in such large headlines, and currently brandished at the top of the page, is a giant chilul Hashem. Especially by someone, as the author himself pointed out, who is not zocheh to live in EY, and therefore offers one of the least authoritative views on this topic.

Chareidi Jews who reside in Eretz Yisrael BH are not subject to daily rhetoric and vitriol. They live a very holy and fulfilling life. And harder in many ways, because things are not as easy or convenient as in Chutz L’Aretz. And arguing that one needs to live in Chutz L’aretz in order to safeguard their mental and emotional health because of terrible left wing views and rhetoric, is not only ridiculous, but completely anti Torah, and tremendously insulting to the millions who love living in Eretz Yisrael for the amazing spiritual experience and spiritual life it provides which is not to be found anywhere else in the world.
Interview the people there, and find out how many have been accosted by secular vitriol which has disrupted their emotional and mental life to such an extent that they felt they needed to leave the country. IF they have even encountered it personally at all. And ask them about the incredibly rich spiritual landscape in which the Torah is alive and integrated into their lives in a way which can only be done in a Jewish country, and how that adds a huge dimension to their mental and emotional well being.
Way back in the time of Chanukah, MOST of the Jews were unfortunately left, secular, off the derech, anti Torah. This is not a new phenomenon. It’s very upsetting and sad. But it is up to the frum people to stand their ground for Torah and kedusha and to stay strong. It is up to the frum people to be an example and be mekarev the people in Klal Yisrael who are unfortunately far from the Torah and the truth. Maybe the reason why the left are so vocal (in addition to getting a huge dose of inspiration from the left in the US) is because they are so scared that Eretz Yisrael’s population has shifted, and is davka becoming more frum, and more of a makom of Torah.

But if you want to stay in Chutz L’Aretz and be surrounded by their leftist views and agendas, including their gender issues and anti religious views, a tremendous amount of exposure to non tznius things, and that is beneficial to your mental health, instead of being in a place which has the most kedusha in the world, the most Torah learning, the most spiritual benefits (and as a side point, where the government, despite being secular, actually funds and supports many Bais Yaakovs, Yeshivas and Kollel learning) then fine. But don’t extort other people not to move there for such backward reasoning.

And for all of the terrible stories of vitriol etc there are many more beautiful and poignant stories and episodes of ahavas yisrael in Eretz Yisrael, among people of all stripes from secular, left, chassidish, yeshivish etc. And it is uplifting and heartwarming and incredible. But if you want to focus on newspaper articles which are written to incite and garner views, and not dig a little deeper to truly understand the truth and true experience, then it is your loss.

Careful. The Shin Daled will be coming after you.

I can’t guess why you choose to remain living outside of E”Y, but the reason you state sounds like a lame excuse – shallow rationalization.
Go live in a frum neighborhood in Yerushalayim, for example, don’t read or listen to the news and you will not encounter secular hatred. Most secular Jews don’t hate chareidim. It’s just a handful of leftists who hog the headlines of the leftist media and don’t have enough people to come to demonstrations, so they pay mercenaries to join them. When I ride buses and the light rail through secular neighborhoods in Yerushalayim, no one says boo to me.
On the other hand, growing up in Boro Park, I encountered vicious antisemitism and indecent men on more than one occasion. Plus your children are a lot more exposed to the horrible woke culture all around them a whole lot more than in Israel, have Xmas advertising all over the place for a least a month, and are much less innocent than your average chareidi child.
Relatives who live in chutz la’aretz (including Ir HaTorah d’Lakewood) have more than once remarked in great admiration how much purer the children are here in Artzeinu Hakedosha and much less materialistic. Of course, it also depends on how you bring up your children, but culturally, there is a lot less emphasis on gashmius. They also live and breathe the mitzvos hateluyos ba’aretz, even if they don’t own any land – trumos and ma’asros, shmittah… The entire year of shmitta all school children are deeply imbued with lessons on emuna, bitachon and “כי לי כל הארץ”. Plus you merit (and witness) greater hashgacha pratis (עיני ה’ אלוקיך בה מראשית השנה ועד אחרית שנה). There is so much to gain – both for yourself and your family.
There are legitimate reasons to live in chutz la’aretz – parnassa, caring for elderly parents, teaching Torah, etc. but your reason is a poor excuse so don’t pat yourself on the back and try to convince others that they should not dream of keeping the mitzva of yishuv ha’aretz (according to the Ramban) until Moshiach. It is your loss by choice.

Very, very sad. Machlokes and sinas chinam continue to destroy thousands of years after they caused the churban.

They don’t like being looked down on. They don’t like paying for welfare and they don’t like that you won’t serve in the army. I can’t blame them.

Until now, you lived in EY and now you’re leaving because of anti-charedi rhetoric?
Or you always lived in Chutz laaretz and now you found a post-facto justification for doing so?
Regardless of the above, were you born in EY, or are you an American?
Americans don’t need reasons to not live in EY. They are ultimately more comfortable in a country where they know the language and the culture, and where they have family and friends. They will always feel like outsiders in EY.
And if you are an Israeli (but yet mange to know such a good English to write this letter), the reason you state that caused you to decide to leave your country, your family, and everything your familiar with to start a new life in a different country – sounds hardly believable.

Sounds like a Yetzer Harah excuse rather than a Yetzer Tov reason.
Besides this, the hatred against frum Jews is only in the media, especialy if you live in traditionalist cities like Yerushalayim, Beth Shemesh, Netanya, Tzefat etc.
If you don’t stroll Tel Aviv or listen to secular TV, you are very unlikely to encounter anti-Charedi contention.

Matzav, you couldn’t tell this whole piece was a troll?

what a stupid article
50 years ago it was much worse
and bigger tzadikim than you rabbonnim and rebbes chose to live in EY nonetheless!!!

Re: “the recent displays of contempt and derogatory accusations against religious Jews by certain segments of Israeli society have been deeply disheartening and unsettling”. Also, “accused of being a burden, and a bloodsucker” etc.
No offense but you are obviously a very thin-skinned person. You know that as a Frum Yid you are doing the right thing, so why should you care what the secular and leftist Israelis say? Just laugh it off. You should feel sorry for them. Feel sorry that they never got a Torah Chinuch. If a five year-old ridiculed you, would you get insulted? And tell me the truth, did anyone ever say these things to you personally? Look how the Yidden in Bnei Brak handled the protesters. They didn’t get insulted. They greeted them with smiles and refreshments! They didn’t take their protestations to heart. They have the right perspective. By taking the attitudes of the secular left seriously you are actually legitimizing their views. And that is a reason to leave or not to want to live in EY? Look what the Gemara says in Pesachim 49b about the hatred of the amaratzim to the talmedai chachamim. It’s natural. The talmedai chachamim pity them. And you should be aware that the majority of non-frum Jews in Israel respect the frum Jews and respect Yidishkeit. They unfortunately are not educated and don’t know to practice it. And THEY are, the SILENT MAJORITY. It’s the media, controlled by the left and left-wing politicians who entice and blow things up. May Hashem enlighten all His children to see things as they should.

The reason the left in Israel is so hysterical is because they realize that they are finally outnumbered by the rest of the population. This is a new phenomenon. They cannot make peace with losing the election to religious people and those who are willing to include them in their government. They are truly afraid their lives will change and they will be forced to live in a religious country. That’s not true, of course, but the incitement in that direction is enormous. They see their power waning, and are desperate to hold on.
We have seen, in Bnei Brak, that whenever leftists troublemakers came there to protest, they were greeted with Ahavas Yisrael, soft words, snacks and drinks. It had a powerful impact. So come here, and be part of the change!

Sorry to dissapoint you, but we have the same vitriol here and on the same subjects. Lib”a/Substantial Equivalency, keren arnona/messing around with public school districts, welfare & taxes, etc etc.

You’re only choosing to live in a bubble in the United States where you won’t notice the hate against us.

So you could live in a bubble in Israel too.

You will be “treated like trash because I am a religious Jew” in NY and Paris and Australia and anywhere because IT IS Golus – even in EY. That doesn’t excuse you from trying to live in EY. שלשה דברים נקנין ביסורין includes EY. Suck it up and move already. Who said life is easy anyway? Ask Yaakov Avinu what happened when he wanted to live a life of ease.

Is this serious??

Finally, someone is addressing a huge problem that’s being brushed under the rug, particularly for Americans living in EY. Americans living in EY are failing their children in a big way. for all you Americans living there, pick up and leave and live in a place where your children can live in the freedom of yiddeshkayt.

For a guy who has such a visceral dislike for hateful rhetoric it’s just amazing how familiar the author if this letter is with it. For a guy claiming he doesn’t live in Eretz Yisroel to avoid such rhetoric is amazing how on top of it he manages to be from afar.

“After what we’ve seen the last few days with the disgusting anti-chareidi sentiment among the secular and left in Israel, why should I subject myself to that?”
Oh yeah, Live in the land of Bernie, AOC, Tlaib, Obama, ie. Yup much better. The diff is when the Big Man comes, I’ll be living in E.Y. And where will you end up? No, no eagle wings for you. You gave up that right. E.Y.’s borders will expand over the entire world. And who will have the zchus to live in what once was Yerushalayim, Chevron, Tzfas – and who’ll stay in the neo EY – Flatbush, Lakewood, Crown Hieghts, etc.?
I’ll be going to the Malcha Stadium to see and hear shiur from Moshe Rabainu, explained by Reb Shimon, R Akiva, expounded by the RAMBAM, and explained by the Brisker Rav. And you my dear friend will be watching it all on Cable!
Wow, what a cop-out. You didn’t convince me for an iota. Good Luck!!!

The author of this article does not understand that much of the hate that secular Jews have against Chareidim is self-inflicted, caused by the Chareidim themselves.

Chareidim do not understand that flaws in their behavior are very noticeable, and those flaws increase the hate that secular Jews have towards Chareidim.

The Zionists commenting here know well that the author is very much on the mark: only in the Zionist paradise does one have to worry about his kids being subject to Zionist shmad and dealing with the Zionists and their shmad army, including attempting to get an exemption.

Only in the Zionist paradise do the Zionists hate Jews.

The bottom line is that Zionism is shmad: Zionism’s entire purpose is to change the Jewish people from a Torah-based people to a G-d-less and idolatrous land-based “nation”.

Everyone who lives in the Zionist paradise (“Israel”) has to deal with that shmad to varying degrees. It is also not at all simple to raise American kids there.

Israelis (citizens or otherwise) also have the bonus of immersion with pereh adam and worrying about the same pereh adam due to the cataclysmic mess the Zionists made.

Finally, there is no need to apologize; Hashem wants each Jew where he or she will serve Him best. If that’s in Eretz Yisrael, then that’s great. If not, then not. No need to be ashamed CH”V; you live wherever your and your family grow best in Judaism.

why evryone surprized

gedolah sinas am uretz etc

Why do people who write more than 2-3 lines believe anyone will read their lengthy comments?

The reason for Israelis or chutznikim in Eretz Yisroel carry a chein, a kedusha, a tzura of the highest level is not because it’s just beautiful here; it’s because of all the yesurim, all the injustices the chareidim encounter, all the discrimination, all the limitations which makes living in eretz yisroel such mesiras nefesh and thus gives us so much inner strength as yidden; emuna and bitachon. It polishes our relationship with hkb”h up to be much stronger. Running away from these nisyonos is giving up becoming a better stronger yid; despite all of the koshi, we stay here and grow stronger.

To a Yid in Golus,
You arent alone. You are actually in good company, as a matter of fact, 10 out of 12 meraglim also saw only the negative in EY and made disastorous deciasions based on this and caused a bichiya lidoros.

There are unquestionably many challenges of living in Eretz Yisrael, both in getting there and sustaining oneself and a family. Many individuals cannot just easily overcome and contend with these challenges. However, this does not preclude one from yearning for Eretz Yisrael nor does it exempt one from the mitzvah of yishuv Eretz Yisrael.

In all cases, speaking “bad’ about Eretz Yisrael is inexcusable and strictly forbidden. If you don’t want to live there or even attempt to go home, that’s your issue (even if it damages the collective of Am Yisrael), though, maybe that’ll change one day. No matter what, I will not tolerate those who repeat the Chet Hameraglim.

Rambam, Hilkhot Melakhim 5:12: “A person should live in the Land of Israel under all circumstances, even in a city in which the majority are idol worshipers, and should not live outside the Land even in a city in which the majority are Jews.”