
Dear Rabeim, Morahs, Teachers, Paras, and others who help in our children’s chinuch,
Based the amount of good you do you are extremely underpaid. No debate and no question about it. A caring, hard-working, dedicated Rebbe helps lay the foundation for a lifetime of being a frum person, a mentsch, a ben Torah, a baal midos, and those traits continue to be passed down and shared with the student’s peers too. I personally find it impossible to adequately express the hakoras hatov we have to several extraordinary educators our children have been fortunate to have.
You are not underpaid because we don’t appreciate you. You are underpaid because we simply can’t afford to pay what you’re worth. A class of 12 kids and a tuition of $10,000 comes out to a total of $120,000 which must be divided among building maintenance, food, electricity and upkeep of the building, school supplies such as books, desks, and chairs, administrative staff, cooks, Rebbiem and teachers. That’s if everybody pays full tuition, which many do not, because even $10,000 is more than they can afford. Many of us go into credit card debt, take home equity loans and overdraw our accounts in our effort to pay full tuition, or as close to full as possible.
You have our respect, our gratitude, our thanks and our appreciation. We have no complaint if you need to leave the profession in order to pay your own bills, just sorrow both for you and the children who’ll now miss out.
We do request of you to please not have tynos on us parents, most of whom aren’t in great financial shape either.
Once again, thank you.
A Parent
{Matzav.com}
Garbage! you don’t pay enough because you don’t have your priorities straight! Skip going out for dinner once a week or the latest Lexus and the extravagant parties and you’ll be able to pay them what they’re worth, Same for Rosh mosdos. If you needed more money to upgrade to a fancier house in Orlando for pesach Or the new Rolex limited edition you’d somehow come up with the money right? So make it work for the Rabbeim.
Unfortunately Dave has a point. 20-30 kids is more like it. This is not an issue that you can make one blanket statement about. However, sometimes, too often, it does seem that the administration does not have their priorities straight. It’s not only yeshivahs, other mosdos too which bring in huge amounts of money pay their rank and file workers low salaries. Human nature: you do everything you can get away with.
Ruach Hatorah: v’ahavta lireiacha kamocha. What if your son was one of the rebeim, how would you feel about the issue?
Dear Parent,
I appreciate your open letter. I am the rebbee of your child and your letter warms my heart. It doesn’t help with my financial shortfall but at least you can express appreciation and respect. Sadly many of the parent body express such contemptuous language: bold and contentious messages and blatant disrespect. I fully understand that there’s a lot of stress that you’re dealing with out there but do show respect towards me and my colleagues who have dedicated our lives to raising your children. You also enjoy a good word so do we. The job is very tough but we do come in each day filled with zest and vigor to help your child develop. Be courteous and nice! Be respectful. You, letter writer are, there are far too many that forget that we’re also human.
Too bad! No one forced you to become a Rebbe. You knew going in what the going salary in your particular mosod was/is. If the only reason you went into chinuch/klei kodesh was in order to get “chashuva” shidduchim for your own kids, then you were never lishem shomayim anyway.
How dare you paint every single person in chinuch with that black brush. How dare you think to know the motivations for going into klei kodesh. Sickening comment. Kids from houses like yours need loving rabbeim and teachers the most, with all the poison they probably hear from you. They’d probably be off the D without these Rabbeim you so flippantly smear. Shame on you, afra lipumecha
Touched a raw nerve, eh? The truth hurts.
“ me and my colleagues who have dedicated our lives to raising your children.”
This is the problem I as a parent struggle with yeshiva rabbayim and menahel. I, not them, am the parent and I not them as raising my child. They treat themselves as the parent of my child when dictating which family simchas my son may or may not go to and for how long. Further, many but not all of them are hypocritical when taking their own time off yeshiva to attend their family simchos.
My Gemora, containing the maamarei CHaZa”L I must assume you believe in and accept with the greatest amount of emunas Chachomim and kabbolas ohl, says parents bring their children into Olam Ha’Zeh and Rebbeim bring them into Olam Ha’Ba. I fear we may have influenced by the street and those who, while they may align themselves with a moral and political agenda similar to ours, they do have neither the Torah nor its chachomim.
Parents are owed a great deal – a tremendous amount – of respect and hakoras Tovah. But the “hashgachah hut ge’firt” that tinokos shel beis Abban have been handed over to the Beis Rabban. ViLimadtem es bineichem, eilu ha’talmidim.
I wish people in chinuch would stop kvetching already. Chinuch isn’t a lucrative job and more importantly it never has been. If you went into chinuch then you should have expected to barely scrape by financially — if for whatever reason you were too foolish to realize the low pay when you started out then you have 2 choices (A.) Accept your lot or (B.) get a different job — but don’t keep your job kvetch about it!!!!
Who was kvetching? I believe this was a parent who wrote the letter not a Rebbe.
FYI – many are following your sage advice and not going into chinuch anymore. Those who want to still work with children are choosing therapies or special Ed. They have the ability to earn more money working 1 on 1.
Pretty soon, there won’t be any Rabbeim left to teach your child. Then who will be kvetching!
Who was kvetching? I believe this was a parent who wrote the letter not a Rebbe.
FYI – many are following your sage advice and not going into chinuch anymore. Those who want to still work with children are choosing therapies or special Ed. They have the ability to earn more money working 1 on 1.
Pretty soon, there won’t be any Rabbeim left to teach your child. Then who will be kvetching!
I am quite similar to this writer. I have limitless gratitude to those educators who were selfless in their work. I have showed my appreciation in many ways. But there is much I could not do.
Firstly, the money I was being asked to shell out was exorbitant. I had several children. There was no option of recognizing that I had a sizable number of children to consider that in negotiating a contract. I was also limited by having a seasonal income, and the timeliness of the the payments was an issue known about in advance, and there was understanding of this at the outset. But when the balance was behind, I was informed that my children would be barred from entering the building. No pleading was accepted, and prior agreements were chucked in favor of their greed.
Secondly, some of the educators were tzaddikim, to whom I still express gratitude. But others were not. They were either hired because of their connections, or because of their lack of experience that allowed the wages to be set low. Regardless, they were intense discipliners, not teachers. And they did inflict damage on my kids. The shaming, the name calling, the interfering with friendships, the unbridled rage were all examples of someone who is inthe wrong field of employment. To blame this form of abusive behavior on low pay is bizarre. To obtain good wages, there needs to be the responsibility to prove oneself. It should be mandatory that employment where one will have charge over children require training. Not this is standard practice, often not even a model class. And reports to a menahel that all is not well with a rebbe or teacher often are more likely to provoke defensiveness than an effort to intervene, and maybe even replace.
So it is a two way street. Many parents struggle to pay tuition. And many teachers and rebbeiim are undeserving of adequate pay. I would love to see all angles of this situation resolved. Our parnosoh should be an example of the unlimited Divine shefa. And our yeshivos should weed out those who should not be in positions of authority until they can demonstrate their ability. This merit pay needs to be oblivious to the family connections to the administration.
Dear parent,
Everything you say is correct. It is a huge financial strain to pay full tuition. However, when you say, sorry that this is how it is, that is where the problem starts. How can the talmid chochom who is giving his life and nefesh to give Torah to the next dor, who spends more time with your child than you do, be neglected?!
You must must must, band together with fellow parents, lay leaders and admin to fundraise for the rebbe! Klal yisroel is blessed with massive wealth. Not just assets, but actual liquid cash. If you can’t pay more that is understandable. But the complacency towards the rebbe is not. It sounds like a bigger achrayus on your end. It is.
Try this new radical idea. Be a leader. Rally your fellow parents and board members and begin a revolution. It is doable and within reach. There is no question that if you do this lemaan Hashem you will see tremendous hatzlocha.
Don’t feel sorry for the rebbe. Here is an idea. Now go do something about it.
As someone who has been a Rebbi for 30 years, I respectfully disagree. For some reason, Klal Yisrael as a whole has not put its money where its mouth is. We hear lip service to the gadlus of being a mechanech but aside from a few (and far between) examples, it’s empty praise.
We don’t view mechanchim as professionals; if we did, we would not tolerate them tutoring after hours to make ends meet. I don’t know of dentists who do cleanings (or fillings or extractions) after hours at parients’ houses to cover their bills. We wouldn’t hire a trial lawyer if we knew that he spent time each night doing odd jobs to keep afloat.
We do, however, take our personal spending very seriously. We drive luxury cars, just because we want to, and that’s fine – just don’t say that there is no money available. Instead of the Audi, Infiniti and Range Rover, perhaps there is something that screams a little less loudly.
What to do?
1) Luxury ‘tax’. If someone needs to have the BMW – he should enjoy it, but keep in mind that raises the bar (and empties the kitty) that much more. Same with over-the-top vacations, weddings, clothes etc. There is money for what we want.
2) Grant Rebbeim free tuition for all of his children. Period. Keep in mind, once a class is formed, the extra child (or two) in a class does not dramatically increase the cost.
3) Pay on time. I’ve worked in three mosdos and went into foreclosure three times. I ended up owing over two hundred thousand dollars over the house’s purchase price. Someone(s?) should set up a central Mosad Gemach that can loan to meet a payroll. Adding a 5% surcharge (iska-ed, of course) to the Mosad upon accessing funds. This would act as a deterrent to being ‘lazy’ about collecting.
There are solutions. We just have to want to put them into practice.
So, if a Dentist were to open his office from only, say, 9 AM to 1 PM, and had to do other work to supplement his income, then that would be a more accurate comparison to a teacher who works those same hours and then does tutoring to supplement his or her income.
1) I think most “in-town” Yeshivos and Beis Yaakovs have greater than 12 students per class yet possibly charge less than $10,000 per student. But a class of twenty-five students and collecting only $5,000 dollars a student brings in $125,000 dollars. And while that is still likely not enough, we are not including in the equation the fund-raisers, and donations from other sources including, but not limited to those coming from wealthy individuals, foundations, and grants (both private and governmental).
2) Girl’s schools face a particular challenge as once married, alumni typically are supporting the schools of their husbands’ choice. Perhaps this – the level of hakoras Tovah owed Beis Yaakovs – should be investigated and a p’sak given.
3) Out-of-town schools, while class size MAY be smaller, on the average, tuitions are typically much higher and the percentage of Klei Kodesh as part of the parent body is likely smaller, thus rising the level of the average tuition coolected.
BOTTOM LINE – less money spent on fancy buildings and more money allotted to salaries may help a bit.
Which class has only 12 kids?
which school has 12 children classes most have 30
and what did the school do with all the ppp money cares act funds etc
no school reduced tuition or gave back a pennt while students were zooming
and no cook no lunch hardly any electric etc and alot of other costs that were not there ie custodian
The schools certainly had other expenses then.
If there is a will there’s a way! If the public wants it enough it can definitely happen.
Btw I don’t think the average yeshiva class size is anywhere near 10.
You don’t tell that to the grocery, to your plumber, doctor, of if chalilah you need a mental help professional. We get away with it because the dedicated mechanchim are willing to work for less in their passion for their work and can not leverage or negotiate. Doesn’t make it fair.
Yes, it is their passion that makes them do it anyways. They’re not naïve going in thinking that they’re going to make money, they just have a pure desire to help be mechanech klal yisrael that overrides their desire for a parnassa. I am a 19 year old girl that is only getting her feet wet in chinuch…. I barely switched sides of the desk at this point… I’m aware that my friends at office jobs are getting paid at least double what I’m getting for starting at an office job. I want to be able to support a family while my husband learns, and I am more than capable of getting a well paying job with a fancy degree. I am choosing to go into chinuch despite the low pay because I have a passion to help YOUR children. When I request a reasonable salary when I have a family iy”H, it’s not because I didn’t know the low pay going in. When I ask it’s because I’m hoping that people finally decided to priorities where their money goes and allow dedicated people to be mechanech their children b’kavod. We know the risks of low salary going in, and we’re willing to take them, but still, we’re asking you…
This must have been written by an out of towner.
“Class of 12 kids”? Tuition at $10,000?
Where do you live?!? I’d bet somewhere out of the tri-state area where the cost of living is also much less.
Is it the opinion of the author of this letter that the majority of our classes have 12 students?
Every word written here is certainly true. However are priorities of importance correct? Do we pay extra money to match our children’s clothing rather than using good hand me downs? Must a sheitel be top of the line? Are our vacations consistent with our budget and with consideration for tuition? The list goes on and on. Unfortunately much is spent in trying to keep up with the jones. And of course the jones who push up tour needs…
To commenter #3, Enough is Enough, enjoy nachas from your children. Likely with your attitude you don’t have much. Sorry, your comment is shameful. This group of people dedicated their lives to help you raise your children.
Many Yeshivas have extra money
We need to get A kol Kora from the Gedolim about the importance of paying the Rebbeim and the Moras a respectful salary
And many Yeshivos pay their staff good salaries.
Ever heard of School vouchers? Do some research and demand from your elected officials to provide you with them. Oh, you don’t vote? It’s bittul torah? It’s not tznius? You don’t want jury duty? Suffer the consequences.
While it is true that there are some who make tuition payments a lower priority than paying for luxuries, they are the exception rather than the rule. Most parents struggle to pay the tuition for their many children. When I had all my children is school, my tuition bill was more than half of my husband’s and my take-home pay! That was before the mortgage, food, and other daily expenses. We never went on vacation, we had one used car even though we lived far from any shopping center, and our home was very simply furnished. Tuition was paid on time; we were never late. However, there was no way that we would be able to pay any more than we did. A large majority of families were in the same situation. So please, do not make accusations about the life-styles of parents without any basis in fact. The parents who may possibly be able to pay more tuition if they wouldn’t live a lavish life-style are in the minority. Even if they would pay more, it would not be enough to significantly bring up the salaries of our Rebbeim and Moros.
Hate to be so flippant, but if your kid’s chinuch doesn’t come first, then your priorities are a little screwed. Not to mention that your sons Rebbi has bli ayin hara a family to support as well.
Why don’t you try making Pesach on a Rebbi’s salary, or make a takanah wedding, without going into debt. Then you can talk.
It’s obvious the letter write has no appreciation for the mesiras nefesh those who dedicate their lives to teaching Torah display. May Hashem open your eyes b’karov.
I just got my new Audi RS6 Avant. I’m good.
“ I don’t know of dentists who do cleanings (or fillings or extractions) after hours at parients’ houses to cover their bills. We wouldn’t hire a trial lawyer if we knew that he spent time each night doing odd jobs to keep afloat.”
“ I don’t know of dentists who do cleanings (or fillings or extractions) after hours at parients’ houses to cover their bills. We wouldn’t hire a trial lawyer if we knew that he spent time each night doing odd jobs to keep afloat.”
You couldn’t be more wrong!
Me and my colleague professionals indeed work overtime every night doing odd jobs, for CPA this is extra tax returns, for lawyer extra legal work etc..
Why? Bc if we don’t, we can’t pay our kids tuitions. This is not to mention that while most Rabbeyim were living it up at age 18-26, we sacrificed including summers and sweating away with tests, classes and studying. We work summers too.
How about skipping Orlando this Pesach and paying your full tuition instead?
Living it up? With all due respect, and I mean that, learning bi’iyun for even four hours a day, let alone three sedarim a day (or even two), delving into the deepest waters of the Yam HaTalmud, to clarify and rectify shitos in the Rishonim and achronim, preparing weekly or monthly chaburos which will be viciously peer reviewed, preparing for bechinos on hundreds of pages of Shulchan Aruch at a time, with the nosei keilim, and all “closed book” is grueling. Anyone I know who has attended a Yarchei Kallah for two or three days, comes back, not only exhausted, but also with a new-found respect and appreciation for the Ben Yeshivah.
How does a ben Torah “rectify” a shito?
Who made the mistake?
Just asking….
Rabbeim and Moro’s especially are a PT job so we really need to double the salaries if we want to compare to FT positions..
Nope nope and nope. Rabbeim, teachers, and Moros spend an exorbitant amount of time (and there own money) preparing, mentoring, giving guidance, and a host of other things that arise from their commitment to current and former talmidim and talmidos. You simply have no idea what your talking about
Part Time?! I was a Rebbe for about thirteen and taught secular studies prior to and during that time. The amount of time spent preparing lessons (yes, even on material taught every year, for every year is a different class, and every class is a different group of individual students), creating tests which will tell me if I taught the material well, which will challenge the students without breaking them, and which will show them how much they have learned, and not what they still have to learn, speaking to parents almost daily to report how well their son is doing (a good question he asked or answered, a chesed he did, etc.), comments on report cards (yes I did not simply write not working to his potential; each talmid and parent would see in writing what his strengths are, how he truly contributes to the class) easily took up more time than I spent in the classroom. So if anything is being doubled, it should be the actual salary, not the imagined salary.
Kllal Yisroel’s problems are always solved on the internet. Great. Keep them coming.
I am HS teacher, as the years go by they add one more student and my class gets larger and larger- by now there are over 40 girls in my classes (nothing close to 12!), and all the while the salary remains pretty similar. Do you know how long it takes to grade each test paper or report, then multiply it by 40.. and all that is done at home. Perhaps teachers should get paid per student. The whole system makes no sense to the students and to the teachers, something is very wrong with the system!
Hundreds of thousands spend to make Pesach with Mickey. I understand that they represent about 10% of the frum velt. And they can spend their money as they want, I am sure they give their Ma’aser money or more.
Still.
We can do better.
We must still remember that parnasa is from Shamayim , for teachers, for parents, for everyone.
e.g.I totally agree
not true
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