Mishnayos Learning for Martin Grossman

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grossman-mishnayos-small[Sign below.] As the saga of Martin Grossman winds to a close following his levaya Wednesday night in Monsey and subsequent kevurah in Liberty, NY, some Yidden have chose to devote their time for the neshama of this Jew whom they never met or even knew. Below is a sign for Mishnayos learning as a zechus for the neshama of Michoel Yechiel ben Avraham. The sign is one of several hanging at Beth Medrash Govoha, located in Lakewood, NJ, and America’s largest yeshiva.

Many mesechtos have been taken, though quite a number remain. The aim is to complete Shisha Sidrei Mishnah in time for Martin’s shloshim on 4 Nissan.

Many Jews around the world continue to be surprised by the attention that this case has garnered and the response of tens of thousands of Jews to the plight of Mr. Grossman, who was executed Tuesday night as reported here on Matzav.com.

Click here to view the Mishnayos sign hanging at BMG, and then click on the image to magnify it.

{Dovid Bernstein-Matzav.com Newscenter}


  1. Oh come on arent we carrying this a bit to far? Most convicts on death row find religion.Why are we making him into a martyr? Is it because we have so few of our own to look up to? We have to make heros out of murderers?

  2. Rebbe… are you nuts? Hy’d…He murdered someone for crying out loud. Why are you making him into a tzadik and martyr? I really don’t understand

  3. I seriously believe that people should ask an adom gadol before deciding what to affix after his name.
    There is no question that he brings one great zechus with him, and that is uniting the klal.

    His story also gives hope to the asurim among the klal, whether imprisoned for deliberate actions, or caught up in a web due to their naivete, or imprisoned because of their pure sacriice for the klal (as in the Israeli MIAs), or other causes. Hope that people have them in mind when they daven, hope that when they are free and presumably rehabilitated they will be given second chances if Martin, a”h (and I do hope his tortured soul is at peace), could be so embraced.

  4. Nice thought, but I’ll be learning for a different murderer on Death Row. Am checking the list of inmates and their crimes right now.

  5. Today’s issue of the London “Jewish Chronicle” carries a report on the execution of Martin Grossman.

    I will not waste this site’s bandwidth or readers’ patience by quoting the entire article, but the last two sentences are worthwhile bringing to your attention.

    “There are almost 400 inmates on Florida’s death row. TWENTY ARE JEWISH.” My capital letters)

    Given the precedent set by the efforts by anash to intervene on behalf of Martin Grossman, may we assume, kal vechomer, that the same enormous amounts of energy and time will be devoted to these twenty Jewish condemned men?

  6. to Yes! Great idea!
    Coming from a dysfunctional family with an abusive parent I bet you I’m a nothing compared to the Tzaddik R’ Grossman who did teshuva on his past sins. I who strive to better my middos and not hurt people, not blame my past am nothing compared to sinners who do the worst possible aveiros and then do teshuva. I hope you do have some Ahavos Yisroel left over for simple people like me.

  7. This is GREAT!! All in the spirit of PURIM!!
    I thimk I will hang up a mishnayos sheet for the aseres b’nei Homon, who also got capital punishment!!

  8. I think its an amazing mitzvah and yes this nirtzach uluv hashuloim is different then other nirtzuchim on death row because firstly he recieved a very unfair trial and if you dont agree with this then I guess you have more legal expertise then allan dershowitz and I assume that for all the question marks allan dershowitz addressed you have good answers for and secondly it is highly likely that this nirtzach a.h. was killed for the soul reason that he was a yid now is it possible that even in the goldini medina of america a jew did not recieve full justice? well look into this case and you will see many many question marks whether his accomplice mr taylor had a part in the murder and whether he lied to save his skin e.t.c. Now to say oh this man is a brutal murderer and deserved to die well I assume you witnessed the murder from the begining to the end well then I am left to wonder why you werent used as a witness; now is the Governor that handed the sentence a anti semite well oh yes thats very possible that and I mean I find it intresting how ignoring the rabbis never gets addressed by all the so called tsadikim sticking up for this Governor and his born again christian ideas which are absolutely anti semitic although in disguise also gets ignored by these so called tsadikim ignore the Governor who is part of a cult that believes in supporting israel in order to one day convert jews to the religion of oisoi ish now with regards to the blinded people who say oh america serves justice to every citizen regardless of their religion well sir you are absolutely no different to the yiden in germany prior to world war 2 and trust me they never believed or let people believe that germany might turn its back on yiden one day. Now we must acknowledge that america has been a medina shel chesed up untill now and we are in gulus and no we will not always recieve fair treatment this is gulus but to deny this well thats silly but respect for our goverment officials well of course we have to but to protest in order not to be oiver on lo samod al dam reiechu well we have to but not be disappointed with the result because we are in gulus

  9. I am putting up a sign for Mishnayos to help Rubashkin get Zechusim!

    I challange anyone out there to name me 3 other jewish inmates on death row somewhere in this country. Find them and let’s start bombarding the courts and politicians and get a head start and let’s get him Frum so if we fail he can go to the chair with a yarmulke and we can bury him on Har Menuchos in Chelkas harabonim. Woooo that’s Choshuv!

    Silly people – get with the program here. Become pasionate and active with something you can accomplish with a good cause, there are Aniyim that need our help, there are yeshivos who can’t make payrol, there are Cholim who need visitors, there are Almonos who need Chizuk, there are teenagers who need a friend, there are addicts who need direction – there is no end to the Nisyonos and no end to the opportunities HKB”H is offering us to see how real we are. Let’s wake up and pump our adrenilin and do do do do and then do some more for all these people with their challenges. Don’t sit back and feel good because you called the governer a Nazi or you decided this murderer is our poster boy for Gadlus.

    Antyone who says the Grossman brought Achdus to Klal Yisroel missed the boat. Grossman did nothing but kill a human being. The Aguda, the Young Israel and all the other Mosdos who asked us to help, the people who behind the scenes created the movement – they get the reward and they and ONLY they are the cause for some much needed Achdus amongst our people but Grossman did NOTHING!!!!! Get it through your heads – he did absolutely nothing to bring us together in any way. He killed a person in a country that is good to Yidden, in a state with capital punishment and where a system (not a perfect one) is in place to deal with murderers. So if you have a problem then lobby Florida to change their rules, lobby the judges to be fair or do what you want to help but stop this shenanigan of making this grossman guy into a hero.

  10. Yeah me too. I have a few good ones in mind, one killed 3 people one is an arsonist and someone died in the house. Hmm tough decision.

  11. Hy”d?! Are you serious? I have seen him called Reb, Zatzal, Tzadik, Kadosh, niftar al kiddush Hashem….Have we lost our minds?! This is what happens when emotional hysteria kidnaps rational thought. Yes the Rabbanim asked us to intervene and ask for clemency. BUT THEY/NEVER ASKED US TO MAKE HIM INTO AN AVODAH ZARA!

  12. this is so messed up its insane! what is this world getting to. i am a shomer torah and mitzvos and never miss davening and have a seder in the morning and night and this foresaken town wont allow my kids in school! maybe I SHOULD KILL SOMEONE! and get sympathy INSANE!!!!

  13. Englisher/#6:

    That quote you provided from the leftist religious-hating Jewish Chronicle that 20 of 400 of Florida death row inmates are Jewish, is a bold-faced LIE.

    That would’ve meant 5% of death row is Jewish, which is absurd on the face of it. That would mean Jews are overrepresented on death row in proportion to their population. Jews represent less than 5% of Florida (as well as the U.S.) population. In is a statistical fact that Jews are WAY WAY UNDERREPRESENTED in the criminal ranks in general, and even less so for the crime of murder.

    That alone should’ve flagged anyone to the Chronicle’s bold-faced lie. But a simple look at the death row roster will demonstrate that you will have trouble finding even less than a handful of Jews on death row across the entire country.

  14. to Yes! only Great idea was intended for you.
    The rest of my comments are for the Chassidim of the R’ Mordche Grossman z’tl, who died al kiddush Hashem under the brutal anti-Semitic Gov. Crist after ingesting a treif sandwich.

  15. i’m taking back part of my comments on Grossman about the treif sandwich . There seems to be some confusion whether the sandwchich was kosher or not. I think it is an important detail which should be cleared up as does most of this story which seems to be a glossing over of the facts with bloggers providing a lot of contradictory facts.

  16. The late Reb Michoel Yechiel Grossman A”H did not eat treif. The canteen has kosher meat sandwiches that they have been providing ever since the Jewish inmates won a lawsuit against the State of Florida, requiring it to provide Kosher food equivalent to their non-Kosher menu.

  17. Those of you with all this crazed mercy and lauding of Grossman are not motivated by our religion. Don’t be mistaken for one second. your misplaced mercy and lunatic ideas about referring to him as a holy soul are all misplaced racial pride no different from any other race who cares about its people – add to that the innate inborn nature of mercy we are all born with. We are supposed to be better than that. We are supposed to use our heads. The people that make him into a tzadik or refer to him with HY”D are absolute morons who totally miss the point of our very rational religion. Wake up and use some seichel.

  18. #12 – It means more if you find somebody who did something really horrible. Then, when you elevate him to tzaddik level, you can feel every better about yourself. I’ve found somebody who did something really horrific, but unfortunately, he wasn’t a Yid. Bummer. Can I give him an imaginary conversion so I can learn in his honor? As long as we’re being creative, here…

  19. Oy gevald, lots of hatred, ignorance, illiterate judgment, and outright Midos Grieois is going on here. Most of you have not studied the case, have not went through all the trial transcripts, testimony, mental health records, etc. I did. I do not have the time to offer an education here, but I can tell you that: would you have studied the history of this case, you would have agreed that for one, chances are that Martin Grossman did not shoot Ms. Parks, and if he did, he certainly did not meet any criteria for capital punishment even according to the proponents of the death penalty. You would ask, how is it then possible that such a travesty of justice took place IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE? if that is your question, then I have news for you, you have not been enough with the system. Eitherway, I ask that commenters here stop displaying ignorance, and offering such harsh judgment on Mr. Grossman, when you don’t know the story. And yes, lets learn Mishnayos Leilu Nishmas this tortured Neshama who hasn’t seen a good day in his life; Reb Michoel Yechial ben Avraham A”H.

  20. #20 Mandy – right on.

    This insanity is crazy. Maybe some of the people making Grossman into a big tzaddik started ad delo yoda early this year.

  21. The thing that eats me up the most is that most frum yidden who live their lives al pi torah and are omed bnisayon on a daily basis will never be a hero, never get a zatzal never have so many people care about him. I think this thing happened to show us just how off the mark we are. Hashem is telling us look how KRUM you have become in the golus. This case was a real venehapoch hu. The murderer becomes the Tzadik Gadol Rebbe…and the victim Mrs. Parks and her family get called Nazis and other names innapropriate for a Jewish site. We really need to fix our wagon before it completely topples over!

  22. Baruch Hashem!

    I am tremendously happy and nispoel to see Acheinu Bnei Yisroel accepting a Yiddishe brother who has done a complete teshuva gemura, like Reb Michoel Yechiel zichrono l’vrocho, even after such a difficult thing in his past and a very difficult life and are organizing saying the complete Mishnayos on behalf of his heilige neshomo and accept him as a 100% koshere yid following such teshuva as we are commanded to do by the Ribono Shel Olam for a brother who repents to accept lovingly and completely and treat as a truly righteous individual.

  23. to #24- YOu are 100% correct. Most of the people who have commented are very self-righteous and lack Ahavas Yisroel.

    TO #14: All your Torah is gornisht if you cannot show empathy and love for a fellow Jew.
    What Hashem hates most is arrogance and self-righteousness you should know this very well.

  24. #16.Good point. I was thinking about the same issue. I was once talking with 2 Puerto Rican co-workers who have been in jail. One of them wondered to me out loud why there is not one single Jewish prisoner!He didn’t meant to compliment, it was just excruciatingly confusing.
    The other replied that there are but very few.

    The first asked why they were there.

    He replied “for killing”(he was there for that himself)

  25. To the “Rebbe” (#16):

    Please do not shoot the messenger!

    I merely report what the highly respected newspaper had to say.

  26. Thanks you #24 I just wish you did go through the details in this case in order to get all the biased closed minded individuals assuring us who the murderer that night was a couple of facts straight now I think mr Grossman was a mr and not a rabbi but and thats far cry from those calling him a blood thirsty murderer the gmara says about the tsadik who went up to heaven and saw righteous people on the bottom and seemingly evil people on the top noone who studied this case thoroughly knows one hundred percent for certain who killed parker that night and allan dershowitz who is not chushid on being pro charedi found many flaws in this case but it seems the closed minded individuals out there are the so called tsadikim defending the Governor and the florida justice system mr Grossman was not rabbi and hardly led a frum lifestyle but at the end of his life he said vidu and shma yisroel and was then killed for being jewish well 90% at least was for that reason and so he died kudosh with vidu and shma like yiden are on yom kipur and so if you still think he died a rushu well then I guess you have a different torah to toras moshe well then please say it loud and clear, we have a torah and tsadikim that teach us how to act in different circumstances and so if your torah is ruled by rush limbaugh and other self acclaiming yoidei sefer well then please say it clearly so we know who you are now if you do know the torah well from there you will know wats considered killing and whats needed for sanhedrin to paskin now with regards to that so called jewish chronicle which hates anything shayich to toras moshe which the englisher yid mentioned earlier well ok we got the story that englisher yid set it straight for all the enlightened yiden here they dont care for toras moshe and would pervert the torah if that sick newspaper finds it right or if rush limbaugh the new yodei sefer agrees.

  27. #33 “Englisher Yid”:

    I am pointing out the disingenuous un”Jewish” Kronckile is neither highly respected nor truthful.

    BTW, where you in the U.K. this Shabbos?

  28. I was in Golders Green. I davened at Munk’s.

    Where were you, “Rebbe”? Not in London and not in the UK. When you live here you can comment on British matters. Until then, keep your rebbish nose out and your mouth shut.

    Have you even read the Jewish Chronicle – or do you just dish out lashon hara and sinas hinam automatically and without engaging your brain?

  29. Our readers may have read of the petira of Rebbetzin Hollander, the aishes chaver of an odom gadol; they had no children. I would love to see such an endeavor for mishnayos for her. (Though quite possibly it is already a done deal. I can only hope.)

  30. to for Rebbetzin Hollander a’h
    did she kill anyone in her life and did teshuva? otherwise I dont think she can get the kind of attention Grossman did.

    No one should hok a chainik that he didnt kill Parks otherwise he would never have apologized for killing her before he was killed- he wouldve deny his involvement in the murder and said that they are killing a wrong man.

  31. Anglisher/#37:

    Yes, I’ve taken a look at that rag, and it wasn’t long to realize the falsehoods it spreads. The above example I gave earlier in this thread, is one of its more notorious examples.

    Now that you’ve confirmed you were in England this Shabbos, pray tell us if you came to this website and made post #33 after davening in Munk’s Friday night, or perhaps you rather came online to make that post prior to Shabbos morning’s davening…?

  32. bb #39: Even someone who worshipped avoda zora or killed someone can do a full teshuva and becomee a tzaddik like Reb Michoel Yechiel z’l.

    Rebbe #40: Great catch! I always suspected something was amiss from the comments of englisher “yid”. I never thought it could be hes a mechallel shabbos bfarhesya mamish. But as is now obvious his comment 33 was made on Shabbos nebach! He ought to change the second part of his screenname to goy.

  33. In this horrific tragedy that has just happened, on which we certainly must empathetically exclaim “BORUCH DAIYAN HAEMES!!” B’Ezras HaShem, let us examine it this way. In all aspects of life, it is well realized that something that is on the extremes of good or bad is a relatively simple item and is relatively easy to understand and relatively easy to deal with. If the something though is somewhere “in the middle,” then, it is a far more complicated situation and is thus far more difficult to understand and far more difficult to deal with.

    For an example, let us look at the issue itself of this case: mental dysfunction. A person who, Boruch HaShem, has good full functioning mental health, is great and is a good productive contributing member of society. A person who, Chas V’Shalom – G-D Forbid, and Lo Alaynu – It should not happen to us, is completely insane or is severely retarded, is, very unfortunately, extremely terrible, and is not going to be able to contribute much to society. However, we very well know what he is: a total invalid, and we clearly know what needs to be done with him: very tragically, he has to be “put away” in a specialized institution that can properly care for him.

    However, a person who is “partially retarded,” or a person who has numerous serious mental disturbances, but who also is “largely” in the real world, forms a much more complicated case. Of course, of course, we are totally thrilled and thankful that, Boruch HaShem, he is not totally retarded or totally insane. At the same time though, his complicated case is going to be quite difficult to figure out and deal with.

    How can we evaluate him? He is obviously somewhere “in the middle,” but what does “somewhere in the middle” supposed to mean? All that we can say is: “He is too ‘well’ to be ‘sick'”; yet, at the same time, “He is too ‘sick’ to be ‘well'”!! Furthermore, what should we do with him? To giggle and say “Haul him off to the ‘funny farm’!!” is outright wrong, for “He is too well to be sick”!! However, that he should now be productive — many times they tried to give him jobs, but he was always all wrapped up in his imagined fantasies — “He is too sick to be well”!!

    Mechoel Yechiel Grossman, Alav HaShalom, was obviously a man who was “somewhere in the middle.” There is no question at all that he was badly messed up. IQ testing showed him to be significantly low; he suffered with the horrific disease of Epilepsy, and the anti-seizure medications he had to be on caused him further mental impairment and illicit drug and alcohol addictions; the death of his father, Alav HaShalom, brought on even more emotional disturbances.

    At the same time though, his bad IQ level was that of only “borderline” retardation. He obviously was not fully retarded or insane, for if he had been so really, really bad, then LONG BEFORE HE WAS 19, even against his will, he WOULD have already been placed and locked up in an institution. Since he was not so really, really bad, he was instead allowed to freely “roam the streets”!

    (This was clearly totally wrong, for while he may not have required institutionalization, he still had a lot of very serious problems and thus desperately needed to be under some kind of very tight supervision. When he did freely “roam the streets,” we tragically saw the terrible calamities that soon came: he stole, did jail time for that, found a gun, took a friend in a park to play with it, and assaulted and killed an officer, which thus brought the end to his own life.)

    Furthermore, when he and his friend were caught by the park officer, he fully realized who she was and what her position was and what she in her position was going to do to him. He fully understood what being arrested meant, and he fully understood what being put (back) in jail meant.

    Once Miss. Parks was dead, he well realized what he had done and that were he to be caught, he would be in very big trouble. He well knew and well implemented the steps he had to take to keep the police from discovering that he was the murderer of Miss. Parks: he thoroughly cleaned out his van, and he changed his tires.

    This last point is extremely significant. It is well known that at the location of every major crime, one of the first items that the police look for and take photographs of and sometimes even plaster impressions of is any tire-tread marks that are on the ground. With such pieces of forensic evidence, they are often able to catch the criminals by matching the (copies) of the tire-tread marks that were at the crime scene with the tread on the tires of suspects’ vehicles. This crime solving method works because most criminals and most people don’t even begin to think about the marks on the ground that their tires make.

    Yet Mr. Grossman WAS keenly aware of the tire business and DID think about it and thus went and actually changed his tires!! On this one, he was really “one up” on most other criminals! On this one, he was really “smarter” than the “normal” people!

    Clearly, Mechoel Grossman was “somewhere in the middle.”

    He definately was a messed up person with some pretty significant neurological problems.

    At the same time though, his significant neurological problems were “borderline,” and despite these problems, he did show a number of signs of some pretty sophisticated intelligence.

    So again, he was a messed up person with significant neurological problems. And that is why we all empathetically appealed to the government that he should NOT be responsible for his crimes.

    At the same time though, his neurological problems were borderline, and despite these problems, he did show some pretty sophisticated intelligence. And this is why the government empathetically responded that he SHOULD be responsible for his crimes!

    Again, this is an amazing twist of life. If Mr. Grossman would have been a full healthy well functioning person, he probably would have lived a good productive long life. If, Chas V’Shalom, he would have been completely retarded or completely wacked off his mind, he would have been held in a institution somewhere, and would have never have been able to get into the terrible trouble that he did. Even if he would have still somehow managed to do some violent action on someone, when he would have been brought into the courtroom and would have blabered off a slew of incoherent speech, everyone, even the victim’s family, would have realized that, very unfortunately, he is off his box, and the most you can do is put him in a nut house.

    Mr. Grossman though, was not this; he was “in the middle.” Therefore, he WAS allowed to go out by himself. Therefore, he DID get himself into really big trouble. Therefore, when his defense lawyers and much of the Jewish community and much of the general community tried to beg the government that he had neurological problems, the government retorted that despite these problems, he still had some good mental funtioning and thus did deserve the ultimate punishment.

    Yes, the fact that he was “in the middle” made things turn out much, much, much worse for him.

  34. (Continuation of previous comment #45)

    So I just explained over and over and over again that this was a case that is “in the middle.” In a case that is in the middle, there are logical arguments with valid points that can be made BOTH WAYS. Now if a person decides that he agrees with the set of arguments of way #2, even if those particular arguments are not 100% correct, he is still someone who tries to reason logically; he is not a “stupid” person, and he is certainly not a “bad” person.

    In this case, the various government officials decided that they agreed with the set of arguments that Mr. Grossman DID have enough intelligence to be responsible for his crimes and thus did deserve the ultimate punishment. As I elaborated on above, this set of arguments did have some very valid points, and even if it was not 100% correct, the officials who agreed with it cannot be called “bad” or “wicked” or “anti-Semitic.”

    Our Torah does teach us that all peoples are Mechuyav – are obligated to set up proper systems of police and courts to enforce the laws of humanity. Ever since the beginnings of human civilization, all countries have more or less done this; either because they had this Mesorah – these transmitted instructions from what HaShem taught Adam HaRishon and Noach, or because it is basic human logic that there must be law and order.

    Now, in the “Western” Christian nations of Europe, North America, and South America, they obviously have very great respect for our Tanach, which they call “The Bible” — specifically, they call it the “Old Testament” of “The Bible.” They also have some respect for some of the little pieces that they may know about of our Talmud too. With this respect, there is no doubt that many of the general principles of our Torah HaK’dosha of proper justice were in the minds of the legislators of these nations when they established their own systems of jurisprudence.

    Now though, does this mean that when they were writing up their laws, they had on the tables in front of them volumes of the Chumash with the commentary of Rashi, opened to Parshas Mishpatim, or volumes of the Talmud, opened to Mesecta Sanhedrin, or volumes of the Shulchan Aruch, opened to Chelek Choshen Mishpat?? Does this mean that the Supreme Court of the United States and the little Supreme Courts of each of the fiftey states of the United States all have for their instructions and guidelines the exact same, L’Havdil, Halachos of the Beis Din HaElyon of the Sanhedrin???

    Obviously: “NO”!!

    And the truth is, there is a huge question mark on if they even have any requirement to!! In a consultation with one of the Mashgichim of Yeshivas Ner Yisroel in Baltimore, Rav Moshe Eiseman, Sh’lita, I well remember how he related to me this issue. There is a Machlokes Rishonim if the Chiyuv – the obligation that non-Jews have to set up a police-court system is that the jurisprudence rules of their sytem are the exact same Halachos that the Torah says, or, that the jurisprudence rules of their sytem DO NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE the exact same Halachos that the Torah says; rather, as long as they make up a set of rules that are fair and logical, that is good enough, and they have fulfilled their obligation!

  35. Yet, as we know the enforcement of the Mitzvos of Bnei Noach specifically exempt Yidden. Yidden are only under the jurisdiction of Beis Din and are exempt from all proceedings and laws of the Bnei Noach.

  36. (Continuation of previous comment #46)

    So I just explained that the government officials who decided with the set of arguments that Mr. Grossman did have enough intelligence to be responsible for his crimes and thus did deserve the death penalty cannot at all be called “bad” or “wicked” or “anti-Semitic.”

    On the contrary, even though they did not do our request, there actually still is a good bit of APPRECIATION that we have to have to them!

    Of course, all of these officials themselves will tell us that our very first thanks and appreciation and the complete basis of all of our thanks and appreciation is to be to THE ONE WHO MAKES EVERYTHING!

    Now though, of all of this “everything that HaShem makes” — including these government officials whom a lot of us are mad at — what specific things are there of what they did that we have to be so thankful for?

    1.) We must be exceedingly thankful that Governor Crist’s office accepted all of our telephone calls — many, many thousands of telephone calls — and patiently listened as we explained our reasons for our request.

    It is very well known in our society how, when someone whom we do not like and whom we feel is a “pest” tries to call us on the telephone, we simply do not take his calls! With the device of the “Caller ID,” we know it is this guy who is calling, and we have many elaborate ways to avoid him:

    A.) We let the phone ring without picking it up at all.

    B.) We let the answering machine or the voice mail “answer” the call.

    C.) We have a secretary answer, who will tell him an outright sheker like: “You just missed him! He had to go to a meeting; he did not say when or even if he will be back today!” “He is out of town until after next week!” “He will have to call you back; what is your number?”

    D.) We pick up the receiver but immediately hang it up. The caller will think he was just disconnected and will try again. But again, we do the same thing. The caller may try a few more times (if he is at a pay phone, he will loose a lot of quarters!!) until he gets the full sting of the hint that we ARE avoiding him!!

    (Of course, this is very wrong; at the very least, it is Ona’as Devarim – mean, hurtful words. I am just relating what IS done in the “it’s a rough world out there!”)

    Yet here — and it goes without saying that they saw on their caller ID screens the Jewish sounding names and the addresses in the Jewish neighborhoods of Boro Park, Monsey, Lakewood, etc. — the governor’s office did not do any of this!! Instead, they answered every call and patiently listened as, over and over and over again, we explained the same arguments — which they did not agree with — about Mr. Grossman’s mental impairment and our request to thus spare him.

    2.) We must be further thankful that Governor Crist, even though he obviously did not agree with our position and did not grant our request, he still stated that he FULLY RESPECTED our position and FULLY RESPECTED our making our request! His words are quoted right here on Matzav in the earlier article at http://matzav.com/crist-says-he-was-swamped-with-support-for-martin-grossman-but-facts-prevailed where it relates: “Crist said a group of rabbis and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz were among those urging the execution be stopped. ‘THE SINCERITY OF THEIR MESSAGE IS WITHOUT QUESTION,’ Crist said” (emphasis mine).

    3.) We must be further thankful that, as is explained in this earlier Matzav article at http://matzav.com/crist-says-he-was-swamped-with-support-for-martin-grossman-but-facts-prevailed, even in his rejection of our request, the issue was not that Governor Crist really DISAGREED with our arguments about Mr. Grossman’s neurological diseases. In a certain way, he did “agree” with us that Mr. Grossman was a messed up person. What he said though was that he felt that we were NOT AWARE of all the facts, for, as related above there were a number of points that showed that despite his problems, he still had some high intelligence.

  37. Rebbe: Exactly.

    And therefore, al pi din, Reb Michoel Yechiel z”l was NOT considered a rotzeach (as Parks was a nochri) AND the al pi din the Noachide courts of Florida had no jurisdiction over Reb Michoel Yechiel z”l AND thus all of us in Klal Yisroel had an obligation of Pikuach Nefesh mamish is rescuing Reb Michoel Yechiel z”l.

  38. (Continuation of previous comment #48)

    At the basis of this, we must be extremely thankful that for this stage of our Galus, HaShem, in His infinite mercy and wisdom, grants us to live in the blessed land of the United States of America and similar countries. Of course though, we must stress that we are not, I repeat, we ARE NOT saying in any way or form at all that the peoples of these countries are any kind of “Tzadikkim” – are any kind of “perfect saints”!! They themselves openly state that they are very, very, very far from perfect. They themselves openly state that they are overwhelmed by countless difficult problems that they do not know how to solve. They themselves openly admit that the various levels of their governments are beset with numerous scandals of all kinds of corruption. Before their elections, numerous activists — my favorite one is the radio talk show host “Michael Savage” — openly warn the populace to NOT BE FOOLED by all the inspiring, idealistic, campaign rhetoric, FOR 99% OF IT IS ALL FAKE!! Before their elections, numerous activists — my favorite one is the radio talk show host “Michael Savage” — openly warn the populace to NOT expect anything (positive) and that the “choice” in the election is like the “choice” of “Diet Coke” and “Diet Pepsi”!!

    What we must very greatly appreciate though, is that, Boruch HaShem, these are nations that are, at least officially:

    1.) Founded on principles of right and justice and respect for each individual.

    2.) Where, as was stated by the founder of the nation, its first leader, President George Washington when he visited a Jewish congregation, prejudice and bigotry have no place.

    3.) Where the leaders are not thought of as “rulers” but rather as “public servants.”

    As the leaders are thought of as “public servants,” in other words, that they are working for the general population, the general population is welcomed and even encouraged TO CONTACT them. The general population is welcomed and even encouraged to contact their leaders and tell them what THEY think! The general population is welcomed and even encouraged to contact their leaders and tell them what they think: Do they agree with what they are doing? Do they think that they are doing something wrong? Would they like to see something done differently?

    [Of course, we well know that with all of this “humility” of asking for our opinions, at the end of the day, these elected officials are still going to do what they think is the best course of action. (Very often, that “best course of action” is going to be what will most benefit the officials’ corporate backers who gave the most $$$$.)]

    This is what took place just now in the Mechoel Grossman case. At the end of the day, the relevant officials still decided that Mr. Grossman did deserve capital punishment. At the same time though, they allowed and welcomed and respected our WELL OVER 100,000 telephone calls, emails, and signatures on paper and online petitions requesting clemency.

    To fully appreciate this, we need to contrast it with what is done in countries and societies that operate with a totally very DIFFERENT “set of rules.”

    It was not that long ago, just in 1989, that in the severely wicked country of Communist China, countless Chinese citizens made numerous protests of all the severe sick corruption throughout the country. Finally, the Communist government decided that it had had “enough”; it deployed its army around the area of the demonstrations in the capital city. The signal was given and the army moved; with endless lines of tanks with their cannon, it simply mashed down many thousands of civilian people and turned the streets and plazas and boulevards of downtown Beijing into lakes of blood!!

    Right now, as we are in Aveilus for Mechoel Grossman, and as I am typing these words, over in the wicked country of Iran, countless thousands of people are out on the streets attempting to protest the false election “results,” which merely extended continued rule of the current tyrant, and every day, the police are firing into the crowds and killing scores of people.

    There is an extremely excellent book that was published in the Torah world about 30 years ago. It is called “Subota” and was written by an “Avroham Netzach” (this is a pen name). The book is an autobiography in which the author relates his story of how — obviously, because he was a Torah observing Jew — he was arrested by the Communist police and incarcerated in the Soviet prison system for a full twenty years. In blood chilling detail, he graphically describes the harrowing sadistic torment and torture and abuse he was put through in the jails and Siberian labor camps of the “beautiful” “Utopia” of holy, holy, holy, holy, Communist Russia.

    Through his long internment, he was exposed to and witnessed what was done to scores of other prisoners. One of these episodes that he relates is as follows.

    On August 23, 1939, Adolf Hitler, Yemach Shemo V’Zichro, and Joseph Stalin, Yemach Shemo V’Zichro, made up and signed a formal treaty called “the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact.” (This treaty really formed a German-Russian alliance in which Stalin had originally planned that the two countries with their powerful armies would together conquer the world!! The first implementation of this plan came just a few days latter, on September 1, 1939, when the Nazi forces attacked and overran the western side of Poland, and on September 17, 1939, when the Soviet forces attacked and overran the eastern side of Poland.)

    Around the time that the news of this treaty was announced in Russia, a Jewish man sitting at home with his family, remarked to them that he felt that Stalin was making a very grave mistake.

    (Of course, as we all very well know, the actual truth IS that making this alliance really was an exceedingly terrible plan for Russia. For with this pact and its Soviet approval of a Nazi invasion of Poland, the Germans were thus able to establish and build up there a large military machine. Then, a short time latter, on June 22, 1941, these German forces there became part of an extensive German army that smashed into the Soviet Union — in a battle front that stretched for over 1,000 miles from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea — in what was one of the very largest massive land invasions in the history of the world. The German offensive was initially brilliantly successful and came extremely close to totally knocking out the Soviet Union.)

    So again, this little man in his private home remarks to his family that this joining up with Germany was going to be very bad for Russia, which was the obvious truth.

    Soon after this, word of what this man had said somehow leaked to outside of his house and reached the ears of the police. The man was quickly arrested and put to death. The man’s wife and children were also arrested and deported to a Soviet prison forced labor camp in Siberia.

  39. Are we worse than the State of Florida? They have finally put the Martin Grossman case to rest.It seems that some people here need to pursue him and be mekatreg(to spiritually prosecute)on him.Enough is enough!

    Think of this scenario:

    Yankel Shmerel comes to the Bais Din Shel Maaloh – the Heavenly Court after his demise:

    Beis Din:So you want to enter Gan Eden?

    Yankel:Of course- true, I may have done this that and the other thing,but come on, I wasn’t such a thing as a murderer!

    Beis Din:Yes, but you have spoken loshon horo which is worse than idlatry,adultery and murder combine(as the Mishna or Tosefta in Maseches Pe’ah state.)You also looked at women which is a very grave sin much more than you ever imagined…………………..

    Yankel:Yeah, but come on it was only a verbal expression or movement of the eyes.Come on I wasn’t a murderer!

    Bais Din:What do you mean – it was much worse!

    Yankel:Yeah, burt I was drunk and under the influence of olam hazeh and the Yetzer Hara.I was premedicated.

    Beis din:Well did you judge others like that?How did you judge Martin Grossman?…………………..

    We are judged measure for measure


  40. another disturbing issue:

    Do we refer to him as a murderer who happens to be a Jew or a Jew who happens to have murdered one time in his life?From Torah hashkafa it is obvious the latter.and yet, even so,if one does Teshuva(repentence)then the Heavenly Court does not even mention ANYTHING of his past(see Rambam)So why are people still referring to him as a murderer?

    We need a heavy dosage of Torah that describes that Klal Yisroel are brothers and that on a higher level they are part of each other and higher than that, they are absolutely one and even higher, they are united and become G-dly(not G-dlike,G-d forbid)?!As the Tanya and others say that their very being a botul to that of G-d’s? WE are talking about a Chelek Eloka Mima’al!

  41. Some say that Orthodox Jews indulge in guilt.ell,since i was never anything else, I can’t verify that being accurate. I suppose that the right amount in the right place is acceptable.

    If you need to fill your Jewish need for guilt, than feel guilty for not doing enough for Martin not the reverse.As for me, I distributed 1000 fliers on his behalf. if I wouldn’t have done so, I would have been guilty.Let’s apply our guilt where we’re supposed to.


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