Rabbi Avi Fishoff Of Twisted Parenting Offers A Vision For A Chinuch System That Builds Up EVERY Child

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29 COMMENTS

  1. I have nephews who went to him for years and are now completely OTD. He might mean well but he has no Schooling and no degrees.

    He is entitled to his personal opinion but he has no credentials. I wish people would go to accredited or people who to school at least who know what there doing.

    • Degrees and credentials are meaningless in this day and age. If you still think paper hanging on the wall makes a man, you probably went to school and overpaid for a zero education.

  2. Rabbi Avi Fishoff’s shmooze is all based on the teachings of the previous slonimer rebbe the renowned nesivas shalom

  3. I have personally reffured countless parents struggling with their teens to Avi’s program and they are all eternally grateful for the referral and are seeing tremendous positive results

  4. Before veshinantom levonecho, it says vehoyu hadevorim hoaileh…al levovecho. Before that it says veohavto es Hashem. Is it possible that if we teach children to love Hashem (assuming we know how to do this ourselves), and how to love His “devorim” that He commands us, that we would a) have readiness for veshinantom levonecho, and b) we would discover that there is more to learning Torah than just Gemorroh with Tosefos and meforshim? Perhaps we would discover that if someone enjoyed non Gemorra, like midrash, novi, Halacha, meforshim on Chumash ETC, they might grow up as someone who enjoys deciding to learn even when no one is watching!!!!
    Perhaps a reduced tension atmosphere for those who will, leolam yilmod odom bemokom shelibo chofetz, would allow them to believe that kol nesivoseho sholom, and talmidei Chachomim are marbim sholom and benachas nishmoim.

  5. Thank you for the video of changing the way we see today’s chinuch Avi you are right on target and we need to analise today’s nisyonos they are different from past generations and we need to tune into today’s youth!

  6. As a parent of a few children who dropped out of the yeshiva system, I feel compelled to respond to Rabbi Fishoff. Rabbi Fishoff your heart is in the right place but as someone who experienced this situation a number of times let me tell you why your solution can not work and what may help the situation. First of all, what I think is missing in the total yeshiva system is there is not enough emphasis on practical halacha and yiras shomayam. I see it over and over again with my children’s friends. The Torah has lo alinu become a suggestion book. You can pick and choose what you want to do and still be called a frum yid. Whether it’s washing for bread, davening 3 times a day. to the other extreme being shomer nigia. The rules are not emphasized enough and explained. Someone once said if one rav says ossur he’ll go to another shiur where the rav will say mutar. That’s the overall attitude today. Now I can respond to the original topic. Rabbi Fishoff at what grade level are we talking about. Your plan would work in a perfect world A child is entering elementary school and with some kind of test you can say “you go to this school and you go to this school” What does happen is, a 3 year old child is interviewed by the principal and unless something is really off the child is going to be in that school until at least 8th grade. If along the way a child is really not succeeding he may go to Ichud, or Ptach, but for 99% of children they muddle through until they finish 8th grade. This is where I see the problem mushrooms. In order to get into a mesivta you need to pass a farher or an admission test for girls. How do these children feel when their friends for the last 10 years get into a mesivta by pesach and this kid is struggling to get into a yeshiva in August. The child knows it was only with ganse tovos finally got into a Mesivta. How does he feel??? Now let’s address the mesivta. We have the level one yeshivas who say these kids can’t keep up with our standards. Then we have level two. There are two kinds of level two mesivtos. There are level two mesivtas who really wants to be a level one and you have a level two who really wants to help these kids. The problem for both types is usually the children are burnt out already and as they muddle through the four years of mesivta they are totally disgusted with themselves and the yeshiva system. Programs are needed to keep these children engaged. The first type of level two can’t or won’t address the children’s issues. Yes, they will learn on a lower level but that’s about it. The other type has programs and mentors but it cost a lot. Tutions in these yeshivos are between $25000 to 30000 a year. Finally, they are out of Mesivta and now they need a beis medrish program There are many Beis medrish programs that try to help these types of boys, but to find the right match is very difficult The boys at these level are already into their clothing, phones, cars, etc. Many of these programs help the kids get part-time jobs. I had one son who had a great boss and now many years later he is B”h successful. However, usually, the boss feels he’s doing you a favor and the kid goes from one dead-end job to another. I feel the key to fix up the problem is at the transition from elementary to mesivta. Much more has to be done to get ALL children into level one mesivtas. Have mentors and tutors there. There should also be training in various occupations. Many of these children are successful in camp. Now we can’t have camp spirit the whole year, but there are many areas where these children can succeed. Hashem should help to see much yiddishe nachas from all our children. Today, Erev Rosh Chodesh Sivan Is a segula to daven for good children.

    • kol hakavod for taking the courage to comment. Avi, while what he says here sounds inspiring; has unfortunately not succeeded in many many cases when its hands on.

    • It sounds like you know first hand the problems and see that as parents we can provide a better solution. But one thing you wrote stood out that I dont understand. You wrote, “Now we can’t have camp spirit the whole year, ”
      Why not?
      Obviously kids wont have the same enthusiasm for mathematics in a class room as they do for water vollyball, but I have been amazed and seen huge strides kids make during the summer under a more relaxed atmosphere. There are some amazing rabbeim in camps who bring that energy and enthusiam into shiurim and learning, which should be encouraged in schools. Not all kids can sit in a classroom for 8 hours a day, 5/6 days a week, 40 weeks a year and be successful. I believe that the “camp atmosphere” can be harnessed and used in school time to help students accomplish more.

  7. Another point I must make is the testing system or bechinos given in class at each level but especially in mesivtos.. I understand there has to be accountability, but often the children are judged and classified by their marks. The way some menhalim handle a child who failed a bechina, farher or test you would think the child was applying to be a maggid shiur and he failed the test. We can all understand a doctor, lawyer, cpa, etc needs to take a test to see if they are knowledgeable in their field but why in the world do we have to be rodeph an otherwise good boy who didn’t do well on the test. I won’t forget how I tried to get one of son’s into a different mesivta when I told the menhal my son will be coming back to your mesivta the look on his face was, your son will be taking the average mark of the class down. This I think is a key issue.

    • if your child has anything that identifies them as different they are treated like an infection as regards to chinich! if you dont fit in get the hell out or torture you till you leave yourselves seems to be the approach.

  8. we must follow daas Torah 100%, any attack on them leads us to becoming Reform. our mesora has brought us to where we are, those that have deviated became Communists and Socialists and Zionists and others. In the shtetl if one wasn’t going to be a Rosh Yeshiva they became a poyel, its simple as that, but we never attack Daas Torah.

  9. While I love R’ Avi and commend his great work.
    When it comes to changing a Chinuch system, I believe it should be discussed and introduced by Daas Torah and Torah giants…
    Baalei batim should be the askunim arranging those meetings.
    But ultimately it’s the gedoilei Yisroel which should be making the suggestion…

    • Your suggestion is great in theory, but not only have I heard it numerous times, but I have seen with my own eyes how Rabbonim can be bought by supporters who have their own agenda.

  10. 100%. The thing is, the mosdos are the ones not listening to Daas Torah. (And, incidentally, “becoming Reform if you will.) The Gedolim from the previous generation were unanimous on this subject. Not to mention Chazal.
    Everything Avi says is backed by Daas Torah.

  11. There is no one solution fits all in any kind of situation, and especially in regard to chinuch and the yeshiva system. Every community has different needs, different rabbonim, different students and nothing will change overnight, but it is ultimately the people who have to implement it, not the board of directors, rabbeim, principals, or teachers but it is ultimately the parent body who will send their children to certain yeshivos, or pull them out, despite any possible communal backlash – real or perceived.

    • it’s the rich people who will solve this issue in chinich if they ever decide to fix it. remember if a rich person’s son gets kicked out of mesivta their are plenty of other mesivtas willing to take them even with the “track record”. whereas a typical bochur has to kick rocks! but remember why would the rich solve the problem if they are not victim to the consequences!

  12. It seems to me the debates around whose job it is to make and implement suggestions to reform today’s chinuch system are misguided. Is only Daas Torah entitled to have opinions ? Since when is the voice of a “simple Yid” (who is far from a simple Yid in his 100 percent devotion to saving hundreds of Jewish lives and families)- considered unwelcome?

    The point to be emphasized is: lives are being lost, literally and spiritually-to a system that is no longer best servicing the educational, emotional, and developmental needs of today’s Jewish youth.
    These shortcomings have rippling effects; marriages, parenting, and contributions to the Jewish world and society at large are impacted by the limiting, unforgivable labeling of students from young ages onward.

    Not all of Avi’s suggestions have to be taken literally; however, his lone, courageous, passionate voice deserves attention and respect.

    I believe his remarks are brilliant. Who can disagree with the reality that one kid might be “aleph” in gemara, while another is in middos, or in halacha or mussar or any other aspect or Torah learning and observance? How does it not make sense to recognize and foster the individuality and positive contributions of each talmid, each according to his own areas of strength, and interest, and excitement?

    With the challenges of today’s society, including fragmented, stressed, overburdened parents, it is all the more imperative to help a child develop and gain confidence in his own strengths. How could being labeled “less than”, as in anything other than “aleph” help ANY child develop a positive sense of self?

    Without question, overhaul of the yeshiva system is needed. Avi’s remarks are meant to make people think, to open discussion, to facilitate the impetus for innovation and change. He is deserving of our thanks for being the courageous lone voice -a voice which emanates from the deeply caring heart and flexible mind -of a man (not a rabbi, not a menahel, not a professional, not a therapist) of one who has worked with the dropouts of the yeshiva system for the past twenty years. Not for pay. Not for kavod. For Ahavas Yisrael.

    Things take time to change, but if nothing changes- nothing changes.

  13. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS: NO ONE CAN GIVE ADVICE UNLESS THEY LIVE IT AND HAVE SUCCESS. AVI FISHOFF LIVES AND BREATHES KIDS IN PAIN AND KNOWS OUR GENERATION. AVI FISHOFF IS SUCCESSFUL AND IS TOTALLY RIGHT. WE DO NOT FORCE YIDISHKEIT ON OUR KIDS. OUR KIDS NEED TO OWN IT. PARENTS ARE LIVING IN FEAR OF SO MANY THINGS BECAUSE OF THE YETZER HARA. WE AS KLAL YISROEL SHOULD KNOW THAT WE NEED TO STOP JUDGING JEWS. AVI FISHOFF IS AMAZING, CARING, SELFLESS, AND HELP PARENTS TO BE BETTER AND HAPPIER PARENTS AND BRING THEIR CHILDREN BACK. THE SYSTEM IS A COMPLETE MESS AND WE ARE ALL A PART OF IT UNLESS WE DO THE RATZON HASHEM AND OPEN OUR EYES TO BE REAL JEWS!!!!!!!

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