Rav Shmuel Felder, senior posek at Bais Medrash Govoha of Lakewood, gave a shiur on the halachos pertaining to porch minyanim on the Bnei Torah Phone Line. You can hear a recording of the shiur by calling 732-363-6713 and then pressing 1, 2, 50.
Some of the points mentioned in the shiur (do not pasken based on this):
-Introduction: The mekor of a tziruf through seeing each other is in hilchos zimun קצה many rishonim hold you cant be metzaref that way. it is not pashut but die to the circumstances you can be somech beshaas hadchak on the yesh makilin brought down by the mishna berura.
-If one feels he can daven better beyechidus he is not mechuyav to daven with the minyan
-Since it is a kula the chazan should have in mind during chazaras hashatz and make a tnai that it be a tefilas nedava (the question is about shabbos when there is no tefilas nedava some porch minyanim do not have chazoras hashatz)
-Kedusha, Kadish and Barchu is not a shaalah of brach levatala
-If you have a חצר in the shape of a ח the porches can join together
-If you have porches on both sides and a reshus Harabim in between they can not join
-If there’s a driveway or parking lot between porches that is used by the public or yechidim as a thoroughfare it is considered a shvill and they can not be miztaref to a minyan from both sides. however if you have 10 on one side than the porches across can join in to that minyan but they can not count ato be the 10 who make that minyan
-Ten people on porches have to be able to see each other, (Its a shaila if one can see the others but not everyone can see each other)
– If one has to turn around to see that is ok but if you have to bend over and look to the right or left that does not count
-Lechatchila it should be a minyan of רואין זה את זה or they all have to see the chazan or he sees them.
-The garbage cans between the houses is not a problem of mechitza or if it smells
-A microphone can not be used for the parts of davening that the chazan is moitze the olam but if he finds it hard to raise his voice he can use it for pesukei dezimra or the end of tefilos that do not need him to be moitze.
-The bracha of Maain sheva these minyanim are not a kvius and nothing happens if u dont say it
-Krias Hatorah: If there is a sefer Torah the Baal koreh should make the brachos for all 7 aliyos (a total of 14 brachos)
{Matzav.com}
A few corrections:
1. Rabbi Felder said, during the week you should make a tnai of nedava, and on shabbos you should be meikal and just make chazaras hashatz (he didn’t say not to make chazaras hashatz).
2. He didn’t say anything about a driveway, the problem is a path (shvil hayachid) that is opened to the public, not a driveway used by one or two families.
3. Rabbi Felder said that the Halacha by zimun that it is enough when some see the others only applies when combining just two locations however where there is more then two locations (ie. Ten porches) the only way to be mitzarif is with the chazan being able to see ten, and those ten can see the chazan.
4. What does it mean, if you have to bend over to see?! You meant if have to turn your body around to see.
Actually I listen again, regarding #3 if all ten can see each other is good, or if all can see chazan it is also good. However it is better if all ten see each other.
פסקים? מקורות? לעניין שההיתר הוא לשעת הדחק נכון אבל עד כדי כך שיצטרכו להגיע לתנאי שהחזרת השץ יהיה בתנאי אינו נכון. ולעניין לצרף מעבר רשות הרבים או דרך שהחזיקו בו רבים. עיין בשערי תשובה שמיקל. ופשוט שכשיש כמה אנשים בביתו של בעל הקורא שהוא לא יעשה כל השבע ויש לפרט זאת. ואולי אפילו כדאי שלפחות הבעל המפטיר יהיה אחר ואפילו קטן. ובאמת אשה גם יכולה לעלות.
לעניין מעין שבע היות והמניין יתקיים באותו מקום ליותר משבועיים פשוט שזה נקרא קביעות מספיק שיאמרו.
He mentions all the mekoros. Simply listen to his shiur. If it’s ok that it’s in english
Where’s the שערי תשובה
Rav Moshe Shternbuch brings up additional issues. Check it out.
To whom this may concern:
Just to let you know
The Shulchan Aruch Horav Paskens like the Magen Avrohom (the Mechaber Rama and Levush and more) that seeing and showing ones face is perfect for a Minyan as it is perfect for Zimun (as paskened in the Shulchan Aruch).
The Shulchan Aruch Horav Paskens that one should take heed not to join up only when there is filth or Avodah Zara
between those joining.
Replying to רב בישראל can you tell me where to find the שערי תשובה that you mentioned? Ty
Once upon a time people bragged ‘I have a Porshe’, now they say with pride I have a porch’ minyan.
Just to let you know and be clear:
The Shulchan Aruch Horav paskens it to be fine even when it is not a Shaas Hadechak
I assume that תפילת-נדבה also doesn’t help by מוסף, [i.e. ראש-חודש and חול-המועד] so just have to repeat מוסף without תנאי תפילת-נדבה
Re: Chazaras HaSha”tz – why not just have the Shliach Tzibur not say the quiet Shmoneh Esrei? As I learned the Halacha, the quiet Shmoneh Esrei said by the Shliach Tzibur is preparation for his main Shmoneh Esrei, which is the one said out loud. That’s why someone who is the Shliach Tzibur in a Minyan that Davens according to a Nusach that is different from the Minhag of the Shliach Tzibur, he is supposed to Daven the quiet Shmoneh Esrei according to the Minhag of the Minyan, and not his own Minhag. Accordingly, the Shliach Tzibur can just not say anything while the Tzibur says the quiet Shmoneh Esrei, then say his Shmoneh Esrei out loud afterwards – so there’d be no issue of a Bracha Levatala.
Would that work?
רב בישראל
1. Sorry for writing in English. I hope you can be moichel me
2. You are mechutzaef. How dare you write אינו נכון. Who are you?!
3. YOU are אינו נכון since a) R’ Shternbuch says the same thing as R’ Felder and b) R’ Shloime Miller is even more machmir and c) Many hold these minyanim don’t work BICHLAL, so R’ Felder is actually coming dow in the “center”, not on the “right”.
4. If you would actually listen to the shiur before writing your stupidities you’d hear all the mekoros.
5. So what if the Shaarei Tshuva is meikil? The M”b in קצה is machmir like the Taz (without even bringing another shitta).
6. Your heara about the Baal Korei he spoke out in the shiur.
7. Regarding מעין שבע: The pashtus is actually the opposite of what you wrote, as he spoke out in the shiur.
Bottom line: You are a baal gayva and a mechutzef and even if everything you said would have been correct, is that the way you write in public about a choshuva poisek?! You should be put in cherem.
I second your comments about the tone of this Rav’s comment.
Regarding “Item 3”, what he said in the shiur was the BK has to take all the aliyos, “unless there is a shvaga living there.” He didn’t say father, brother or son. Rightly or otherwise, i took that to mean that if the only residents are brothers, fathers and sons, they cannot take some aliyos since you cant call 2 brothers, etc., in a row.
Rav Felder SHLITA stated that this situation is an extreme shas hadchak because it would last several weeks and therefore should be done.
Now that yard minyanim are legal, if it rains one day, can the minyan go back to their canopied porches?