
Dear Editor,
I watched the music video posted yesterday on Matzav.com here.
The video and its depiction are foolish.
People who have no depth misconstrue the Chareidi vs. Chiloni tension as a love-hate problem. This is the furthest thing from the truth!
Frum, chareidi people are generally from the most accepting and forgiving people on the planet.
These “fights” are generally not about love and brotherhood. They are about standards.
One group wants to maintain their standards while another group wants to break down any standards.
It’s a similar argument between “progressives,” who want to abolish jails in the name of “inclusion,” while normal people say it’s got nothing to do with inclusion and everything to do with standards of public safety.
Please, do not allow a music video to muddle the facts and depict chareidim as being equivalent to chilonim in a battle lekadeish Sheim Shomayim. It is a distortion of the facts and someone has to call this out in public.
Thank you.
N. Bergman
{Matzav.com}
Very well said. So many times we just see things and move on.
We don’t always realize that the messages are subliminally affecting us.
Frum, chareidi people are generally from the most accepting and forgiving people on the planet.
I wish this were true about those who always attend or get involved in protests too. Scweky wishes his version of the protests were true too. Both of you are sugarcoating reality.
One group wants to maintain their standards while another group wants to break down any standards.
Going to Rechov Yaffo to protest tinokos Shnisba driving on shabbos is not about fighting a group looking to break any standards. That is just one example.
@anonomous
It IS true.
Demonstrably so.
But when one group walks into the life of “those involved in the protests” and completely wrecks their mode of living with ZERO respect for their standards, you will get pushback.
I was by (not part) some of these protests, the cops do it for fun. Did yo know that when these protests are called for by the Eida, the signs state explicitly no aggression, and no children under 18? (seen that numerous times when I was there). Dont confuse the stupid clips you see of extremists with the reality of what is taking place. Theres more than enough clips of secular extremists to even it out.
Second, of course going to rechov yaffo to protest shabbos desecration is protesting the breaking of standrds, it used to be that shabbos was, for the most part, at least publicly kept in Yerushalayim.
Standards of Judiasm and community standards are also standards, and they should be respected.
Although the entertainer publishing the video is probably incapable of the nuance required to appreciate this letter, he should have at least realized that it’s a mistake to focus on a controversial issue such as this. Jewish entertainment ‘celebs’ should be told: “you have an amazing voice, so USE it — for SINGING….
We’re tired of ‘bravery’, PR taken straight out of the Hollywood playbook.
Our sages say “Eizehu Oshir Hasameach Bechelko”. Stick to your vocation, and please – leave the Torah be.
Thank you for speaking up you make a great point and our view on religious struggles shouldn’t be molded by singers and their songs (nothing against the singer)
Agreed. It’s time the liberals amongst us stop. These chelonim hate us like poison. We don’t have to bend over backwards for them to “placate” them. It’s time we stop twisting ourselves into pretzels to somehow someway maybe efsher they’ll suddenly love us and want to become Frum.
The writer is 100% correct. The last frames says it all. “Even if he is not ‘kamocha'” No JEW is not kamocha. And ahavas Yisroel is NEVER chinom. The fact one is a Jew is reason to love them. Precicely because he/she IS kamocha. Precicely because we all share nishmas Yisroel.
But that commonality is also why Torah observant Jews “protest” the behaviors of less observant Yidden. BECAUSE we share nishmas Yisroel! Because we ALL stood at Har Sinai! Because we ALL said na’aseh v’nishmah!
Who started Chinuch Atzmai? Who started Lev L’Achim? Who started Yad L’Achim? Who started SHUVU? Who started OORAH? Who opened Ratzad? Who opened Be’er HaGolah? Who fouded Rav Tov Intrnational Rescue Organiztion. Who runs the Vaad L’Hatzolas Nidchei Yisroel?
The above foolish commentary is a good example of what the EXCELLENT and MEANINGFUL video is trying to fight against. How it is possible to see anything negative in this video is only if someone is looking to be negative and hateful. The fact is there is so much divide in EY between charedim and chilonim, and all this video is trying to do is dream of times of love which we can all do ourselves a little by showing positivity and love, like if we don’t post or listen to such foolish commentary.
You bring forth the foolishness very well.
You write “there is so much divide in EY between chareidim and chilonim, and ALL THIS VIDEO IS TRYING TO DO IS “DREAM” OF TIMES OF LOVE…”
There. That is precisely the foolishness. You speak of the divide with ZERO mention of WHY it exists, then you proceed to dream….
Well my friend, if you will not pay attention to the what and why, it will remain just that, a dream.
יהי רצון שנקיים מצוות ואהבת את ה’ אלוקיך ויהא שם שמים מתאהב על ידינו
Well written – to the point!!
BERGMAN – WELL SAID!!
It is refreshing to see this letter and the here comments defending the truth. Chareidim are the most loving and accepting people. However we cannot accept all kinds of immorality or those engaging in all kinds of immorality in Eretz Yisroel or anywhere worldwide. We protest those trying to destroy the hecheisheirim, geirus process, and all halachik institutions and processes by trying to “reform with Reformism” that has led hundreds of thousands of Jews, and perhaps even millions ofJews, to assimilate over the past two centuries. We stand up for the Torah, minhugim and kevod Shemayim and “love” in this case is a PR, irrelevant word.
This post has serious cognitive dissonance.
You may be right that certain things should not be tolerated but you when you are running around protesting things you can not claim you are the most loving and accepting people. Perhaps the situation does not allow for it but don’t claim to be who you aren’t.
Thats not true. You can protest abominable behavior vehemently and still be a loving person.
Are soldiers who fight terrorists not loving people because they fight?
The type of people who look to be combat soldiers usually don’t pride or describe themselves for being the most loving and accepting people.
And there is a major difference between a soldier putting his own life at risks for other peoples safety and someone going to a protest or engaging in other behavior that boils down to safe harassments of other people.
I’m saying this as someone who used to go to hafgonas and scream Shabbos! at car but now deeply regrets it
I did not watch the video (my filter blocks anything from YouTube) but reading the letter of Mr. Bergman, I think I get the point.
I will say this: Generally speaking, the people who are involved in kiruv rechokim in Israel are not the people participating in protests. There are two different ways of bringing Yidishkeit to the masses, which sometimes conflict. Kiruv rechokim demands leaving channels open in which chilonim will want to hear what Torah says. Hafgonos (which is really just the tip of the iceberg of religious domination in Israel) only help to achieve short-term goals, like closing roads on Shabbos, or prevent a certain kever from being excavated, but in the realm of charedi-chiloni relationship, they alienate.
This alienation is fine if you don’t believe there is any hope of influencing chilonim. But the fact is that chilonim are people, not indoctrinated zombies, and they can be influenced to become more religious, and they do, by the thousands. If you believe in the kiruv movement, you would understand that every interaction between charedim and chilonim that is inspiring, uplifting, and creates positive energy, carries enormous potential for making Israel more religious. And every hafgono, which is broadcast throughout Israel by the antireligious media, will intensify the message that religious people are dominating, selfish, cruel, barbaric, threatening, etc., which makes the real kiruv efforts so much more difficult.
So yes, stop the hate. Meaning, stop doing this that alienate chilonim, so that their view of charedim should be שיהא שם שמים מתאהב על ידך
You mention maintaining standards. Again, this is true if the media is on your side. If the media will carry your message as sweet, peace-loving tzadikim, who just want to make sure that Klal Yisroel is doing the Rotzon of Hashem, and you will be respected for that – go for it. שכרך הרבה מאד. Unfortunately, too often, this is not the message the hostile media will choose to broadcast. And if that’s the case, what’s the purpose of the demonstration? Can you take achrayus for all the hate that will be merachek millions of achenu Bnei Yisroel?
The slogan ‘veohavto lereiach afilu im hu loh komocha’was used at the pro gay protest in Israel.
These twisted words are used to promote liberal propaganda & should not be used for the real mitzvah of ahavas chinom.
Wow. So Matzav is censoring again. How mature.
Since when does a singer get a right to tell us about hashkafa? that’s a purely non Jewish and liberal woke idea.
I have a quick litmus test to figure out whether the posts against the video are Leshem Shamayim. Have you davened for the secular Israelis to become frum and have a connection with Hashem? Do you do so every day as if Chas Veshalom a relative was off the derech? If yes, then you have every right to lovingly protest Chillul Shabbos, etc. If not, then your probably involved because you like machlokes.
Thats moronic.
I actually wrote the letter
No, It was not purely L’shem shamayim. Just like your comment wasnt.
Its funny that you get so “pure” when it comes for standing up for the Kavod of frum yidden. I’m proud to do that “shelo Lishma”, and maybe one day, it will be Lishma, while you belittle the very real struggles of being frum and maintaining ACTUAL purity in a world gone mad.
As a tinok shenishba who was raised an atheist but became frum, I am more qualified to express an opinion on this subject matter than the self-proclaimed kiruv experts. Here is my 2 cents:
1. Reason to be frum: No one changes their life because of empty hugs and hype. You need REAL things to drive you. The initial push comes from anywhere between hippie spirituality to Jewish-power nationalism. This initial push is a seed that sprouts upon exposure to the beautiful Emes of Torah, from Gemora for some to Chasidus and Mussar for others. Hype has a place ONLY as a short-term stimulus that has to be immediately solidified by the real things, such as Lumud haTorah and Shmiras Hamitzvos. A hype without the solidifying steps is a road to nowhere. Coincidentally, any of the so-called frum from birth who don’t know WHY they are frum, and who are just observing due to habit and social pressure and not because they believe in H, have no chance of surviving a stress-test. Perhaps, it’s the contemporary “chinuch” establishment’s stressing out the cookie-cutter compliance and stifling of critical thinking that produces the current off-the-derech epidemic, but I digress. As far as kiruv is concerned, it’s not necessarily the vocal protesters that are a turnoff to a potential baal teshuva, but the empty superficial often-snobby fools who are devoid of any pnimius but somehow consider themselves religious.
2. Making Shmiras Hamitzvos easy: Once someone has a reason and a drive, they need a practical and easy way to proceed. That means the entire support infrastructure: from easily available kosher food to educational institutions to shadchanus assistance to making friends in the frum community. While the food situation is better than it was three decades ago, other items are severely lacking. There’s no bigger turnoff than when someone becomes frum with great mesiras nefesh, gets married and creates a family despite the “best efforts” of many so-called frum people, and then their frum from birth kids are denied a yeshiva admission because of the snobby establishment mentioned in item 1 – that makes practical observance very hard to say the least. So, no, I don’t need your stupid songs and hugs – let’s start with no snubbing policy.
In conclusion: I am not a fan of Neturei Karta types to say the least, but it’s not them who are turning people away. The people that turn people away and often commit a real Chilul H are not the crazy-eyed “kanoim” but the soft-spoken establishment types who interpret being verbally polite as “good midos” and who are completely empty on the inside.
Additionally, a special note to the self-proclaimed “kiruv professionals”: don’t you dare to even think that you “made someone frum”. This way of thinking involves condescension that will come to the surface no-matter how well masked. View yourself as merely an assistant gardener, who merely waters the seeds when needed, and treat every Yid as a brother, including the people you are trying to assist.
The writer is probably mostly right as far as “who started” is concerned, but right now both sides simply hate each other, and every member of the opposite side, with no real justification.
Well, are the Chilonim done with breaking down standards?
Is it all just water under the bridge?
IMHO, the video is saying that despite our opinions, we can love each other as Yidden.
Is one allowed to add words to the Torah?! I thought that was Baal toseph, an issue dioraisa?! The pasuk says, Viohavta loreiacha komocha. No words added! Who gives the composer of this song video the right to sanitize the Torah hakdosha?!
LOL
Your right, The whole song is off, and is focused on the wrong words, see “kamocha” is not reffering to “WHOM” we love, rather to HOW we must love, but the song writer clearly doesnt understand the implication of “L’rayacha”.
Here is another pasuk to illustrate: “Misanecha Hashem Esnah, V’im eskotcha eskotat”
You have all missed the point. Shwekey is advertising a problem among the Jewish people. I wish he would have done so without showing the sinat chinum parts and just promote ahavat chinum which doesnt mean we have to hug each other but RESPECT each other. Understand that we all have our own personal interests but above all Hashem wants us to get along. We are His Children. I dont expect my children to all be the same and I love them all equally but when I see them fight I have to cringe as I expect Hashem does when he sees the images Shwekey chose to advertise. I think his efforts will only backfire. When we choose a project we have to think of the repercussions. I am not sure this video does that.
The writer did NOT miss the point.
That is EXACTLY the point! We can all respect each other as Human beings, but that has NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH to do with caving in on standards. Stop conflating the two.
Singers are not authors of Haskafah, but they sure can convey an obvious truth.
When R’ Aryeh Levin went to be מוחה to storeowners open on Shabbos, he sat there and told the owner that I’m here to see your costumers come and go to appreciate your נסיון in keeping Shabbos, and THAT is all he had to say! Contrast that with yelling ‘Nazi’ at a policeman doing his job, that for all we know put on תפילין that morning…
Dear MadShweks 10:25, “doing his job” is exactly the argument that nazis tried to defend themselves with at Nuremberg, but it didn’t work for them that well, as I recall. The only argument for any person-in-power is very simple: is what you are doing moral and ethical(not in the relativistic, but as in generally accepted by the civilized humanity sense of the word), or is it not. If you defend the islamonazis and the perverts who attack the Jews, and prosecute Jews who dare to defend their traditions and their lives, that is what makes you as lacking a moral compass as a nazi – hence calling you a nazi is an accurate description.
Time for a roundtable discussion.