Every year there’s about 1/4 of a million to 1/2 million people but exits are not blocked. Adults and children begged the police to let them leave, but these reshoim refused. YES THE TRAGEDY WAS THE POLICE’S FAULT! Whenever police are involved, there’s chaos and tragedy.
If this stampede was caused by a few judenrat policemen blocking the exit, why didn’t our people just walk all over the evil rodfim? There’s nothing that five policemen can do against an organized thousand-strong crowd that’s directly face to face with them. Nothing short of a military unit armed with heavy weaponry can stop such crowd. Again, the exit was blocked by only five puny policemen. Unfortunately, instead of plowing through the judenrat capos and unblocking the exit, it seems that our people got scared of a police pepper spray threat, which is ridiculous, as one would think that a danger of dying from stampede outweighs a pepper spray. However, since we do not consider ourselves as one unit, the minor personal considerations took over the major considerations for others: yes dying from a stampede is more dangerous than a pepper spray, but not if another guy is doing all the dying – some of us would rather that another Jew gets stampeded to death so that they may not experience a much smaller inconvenience of getting pepper sprayed and possibly arrested. We have to change our mentality to describe ourselves simply as a Jew, as opposed to a member of this group or that group. We have to start behaving as one unit. When everyone is a team player, then everyone’s chances of survival are going way up. Unite or die.
Where were you when a few Nazis marched into ghettos comprising of thousand of people? 100,000 people without weapons and without pepper spray do not have the power of 5 police capos with weapons. Too bad you weren’t there to witness it yourself.
Dear 5:04am sleepless idiotic comment expert, are you this thick that you don’t see a difference between the holocaust victims which were often confronted by heavy machine guns placed far enough out of reach versus these five policemen armed with a pepper spray can standing 2 feet away from you?! Even in the worst possible scenario, if someone shoots a handgun a few feet away from a charging(pay attention: charging, not fleeing) crowd, he won’t be able to get out more than two or three shots before his skull becomes a soccer ball. I would understand if our people were the polite kind, incapable of pushing, but unfortunately if our people did not start pushing each other like walruses, there would be no stampede altogether. So, let me ask this again, if our people are clearly capable of pushing and happened to have a clear advantage over the exit blocking judenrat capos, why didn’t they use their advantage and charge the capos? The answer is very sad: a complete lack of unity, where the relatively minor(getting maced and arrested) personal considerations trump the major(getting stampeded) considerations of others.
When people are being crushed to death, toppling over each other, some even trying to protect their children, struggling for breath; rational solutionizing can be impossible.
Don’t blame the victims.
Regarding your theory that “it seems that our people got scared of a police pepper spray threat”, etc. and “some of us would rather that another Jew gets stampeded to death so that they may not experience a much smaller inconvenience of getting pepper sprayed”. You have it all figured out. If you would have been there, you would have known exactly what to do in one or two seconds? Do you have eyes in the back of your head? Are you so sure that your reflexive actions in such a time would have been perfect? And you are blaming the masses who were there? My brother, when was the last time you learned the Iggeres HaRamban? If you want I’d be glad to learn it with you.
Dear 1:09am Insomniac in Pain, I am not into the blaming for the sake of blaming; I am here to pinpoint the bug and to engineer a solution. The only viable solution I came up with is to unite and act as one unit, which sounds much easier than it really is. Obviously, the confusion and fear degrade rational thinking at the heat of the moment, but that can be mitigated with rational pre-planning, akin to making many repetitions of a self defense move to the point of it becoming a learned reflex. So, if you don’t like the solution of acting as one unit, argument your case without your emotional irrationality and suggest your own solution. That’s how you have an intellectual conversation.
When people are being crushed to death, toppling over each other, some even trying to protect their children, struggling for breath; rational solutionizing can be impossible.
Don’t blame the victims.
Malky 7:39, no one is blaming anyone here, just trying to pinpoint what went wrong, so that the appropriate corrective measures can be taken. This is a men’s conversation. Malky, your kids are crying while you are wasting your time typing up comments.
Bs”d Please translate into English.
it always somebody else’s fault. tell me how did people get forced in that position to begin with? were people pushing from behind?
Every year there’s about 1/4 of a million to 1/2 million people but exits are not blocked. Adults and children begged the police to let them leave, but these reshoim refused. YES THE TRAGEDY WAS THE POLICE’S FAULT! Whenever police are involved, there’s chaos and tragedy.
the people from behind could hear the same beggings yet I imagine they pushed forward. is that not plausible? so why blame the police?
If this stampede was caused by a few judenrat policemen blocking the exit, why didn’t our people just walk all over the evil rodfim? There’s nothing that five policemen can do against an organized thousand-strong crowd that’s directly face to face with them. Nothing short of a military unit armed with heavy weaponry can stop such crowd. Again, the exit was blocked by only five puny policemen. Unfortunately, instead of plowing through the judenrat capos and unblocking the exit, it seems that our people got scared of a police pepper spray threat, which is ridiculous, as one would think that a danger of dying from stampede outweighs a pepper spray. However, since we do not consider ourselves as one unit, the minor personal considerations took over the major considerations for others: yes dying from a stampede is more dangerous than a pepper spray, but not if another guy is doing all the dying – some of us would rather that another Jew gets stampeded to death so that they may not experience a much smaller inconvenience of getting pepper sprayed and possibly arrested. We have to change our mentality to describe ourselves simply as a Jew, as opposed to a member of this group or that group. We have to start behaving as one unit. When everyone is a team player, then everyone’s chances of survival are going way up. Unite or die.
Where were you when a few Nazis marched into ghettos comprising of thousand of people? 100,000 people without weapons and without pepper spray do not have the power of 5 police capos with weapons. Too bad you weren’t there to witness it yourself.
Dear 5:04am sleepless idiotic comment expert, are you this thick that you don’t see a difference between the holocaust victims which were often confronted by heavy machine guns placed far enough out of reach versus these five policemen armed with a pepper spray can standing 2 feet away from you?! Even in the worst possible scenario, if someone shoots a handgun a few feet away from a charging(pay attention: charging, not fleeing) crowd, he won’t be able to get out more than two or three shots before his skull becomes a soccer ball. I would understand if our people were the polite kind, incapable of pushing, but unfortunately if our people did not start pushing each other like walruses, there would be no stampede altogether. So, let me ask this again, if our people are clearly capable of pushing and happened to have a clear advantage over the exit blocking judenrat capos, why didn’t they use their advantage and charge the capos? The answer is very sad: a complete lack of unity, where the relatively minor(getting maced and arrested) personal considerations trump the major(getting stampeded) considerations of others.
When people are being crushed to death, toppling over each other, some even trying to protect their children, struggling for breath; rational solutionizing can be impossible.
Don’t blame the victims.
To Mr. Anonymous,
Regarding your theory that “it seems that our people got scared of a police pepper spray threat”, etc. and “some of us would rather that another Jew gets stampeded to death so that they may not experience a much smaller inconvenience of getting pepper sprayed”. You have it all figured out. If you would have been there, you would have known exactly what to do in one or two seconds? Do you have eyes in the back of your head? Are you so sure that your reflexive actions in such a time would have been perfect? And you are blaming the masses who were there? My brother, when was the last time you learned the Iggeres HaRamban? If you want I’d be glad to learn it with you.
Dear 1:09am Insomniac in Pain, I am not into the blaming for the sake of blaming; I am here to pinpoint the bug and to engineer a solution. The only viable solution I came up with is to unite and act as one unit, which sounds much easier than it really is. Obviously, the confusion and fear degrade rational thinking at the heat of the moment, but that can be mitigated with rational pre-planning, akin to making many repetitions of a self defense move to the point of it becoming a learned reflex. So, if you don’t like the solution of acting as one unit, argument your case without your emotional irrationality and suggest your own solution. That’s how you have an intellectual conversation.
When people are being crushed to death, toppling over each other, some even trying to protect their children, struggling for breath; rational solutionizing can be impossible.
Don’t blame the victims.
Malky 7:39, no one is blaming anyone here, just trying to pinpoint what went wrong, so that the appropriate corrective measures can be taken. This is a men’s conversation. Malky, your kids are crying while you are wasting your time typing up comments.