
Rabbi David Bashevkin, the New York-based Director of Education of NCSY, recently appeared on the Kosher Money podcast. During his conversation, he took aim at the “gvir culture” prevalent in the frum community.
WATCH:
WATCH:
FULL EPISODE:
Rabbi David Bashevkin, the New York-based Director of Education of NCSY, recently appeared on the Kosher Money podcast. During his conversation, he took aim at the “gvir culture” prevalent in the frum community.
WATCH:
WATCH:
FULL EPISODE:
Lets put this into perspective. I’m old enough to go back 50 years. My parents were middle class, My mother only worked after most of the children were married. I don’t think my father ever made more then 50,000 a year but they were able to buy a house in Boro Park, pay tution, make weddings etc. Back in the day going to kollel or being a rebbi was very respectable although that meant you needed every program in the book to make it. Fast forward to the last 20 years – middle class means the struggling class. Kolllel and rebbeim may still be respected but they can’t make ends meet. Their children don’t want to struggle and live on programs so of course they want to be a gvir.
In my opinion, that statement is not so true look at so many givirs who don’t have fancy houses, oh and by the way maybe you forget that our shuls and yeshivas are still open and running because of them without them are yeshivas might not stay open so instead of giving them Musser maybe say thank you i think that he should say sorry
Who said that it is only the gevirim who need to reflect?
In fact, who said that it’s primarily the gevirim who need to reflect??
It’s primarily all of us who need to rethink this culture.
If a magazine is for or about the ‘rich and famous’, then I don’t need it influencing my family. If a song is only popular or good due to being composed by the ‘rich and famous’, then I won’t have time to sing it at my Shabbos table, as there are too many songs which are objectively warm and uplifting without the ‘rich and famous’ aspect.
Rethink his message. It’s worthwhile.
You missed his point. 100% Klal Yisroel needs and wants gvirim to fund institutions and torah. His point is that the she’ifis is no longer to be the Talmud chochom but rather from the get go to be the gvir and we’ve made them into the gedolei yisroel instead of the tomchei Torah. Read Moishe Reichmann book. He was a billionaire but his desire was to be in the bais medrash. I believe that was the authors point.
Very true and well said. It is scary that the young look up to them as role models and so want to be like them and live their type of life style
But I also think that our Gedolim, Rebbes and Roshei Yeshivos, put them on that pedestal which gives them this stamp of approval. It is true that need drives them to give them such kovod, but if we would simultaneously give at least the same kovod to our young Talmidei Chachomim and Magidei Shiur, that would somewhat rectify this problem.
Thank you Rabbi Bashevkin. I’ve been trying to say the exact same thing, in numerous ways, here on Matzav, but in their sanctimonious indignation, they’ve always bend over backwards to be michaneff the gevirim.
What’s wrong with having money. I myself was already a Gevir in my early twenties but never boasted about it. I lived a simple life even though I was already a multi millionaire. Today I support my kids in kollel and keep a low profile. Very few people know if me as a multi millionaire and I like it that way. I donate to causes I support. Of course it’s mostly for Torah but I have donated over a hundred thousand to help Trumps election behind the scenes.
He spoke about being blessed with money, intelect, artistic ability or any other blessing? He spoke about ‘gvir culture’, or the culture of the ‘rich and famous’.
If all the Gvirim would behave like you we’ll have an עולם התיקון
You didn’t give $100k to Trump. That’s illegal, coming from a private citizen. You don’t even have a potnto piss in, so keep your mouth shut. Idiot.
He didnt say he gave money to trump. He said he donated to help trump’s campaign.
and who said it was a private citizen? maybe he donated it as a corporate donor.
To you, ben tzion dave, I would remind you to rather keep YOUR mouth shut and have people think you are a fool, than open it and remove all doubt.
You really think highly of yourself. You’re a legend in your own mind.
Rabbi Bashevkin’s own father can be considered in the category of a givir and at the same time is humble, doesn’t live in an ostentatious manor and has proper priorities and is an example of how a gvir should live.
Additionally, in any category of people, whether Klei kodesh or balei batim, there are those who will have proper midos and those who will not. For example, there are givirim who are humble, have proper midos and use their wealth properly and there are those who do not. Conversely, there are klei kodesh who are tzadikim and are a shinning example and there are those who are the opposite.
There is nothing wrong with trying to emulate a gvir who uses his wealth that HKBH gave him properly.
I feel that Rabbi Bashevkin is over generalizing and over simplifying the topic.
Very true what he says but nothing will change
Soo right.
I’ve seen many who make it into the gvir group that claims to be daas torah, yet they never quote any even kitzur (which is short and easy, as opposed to shulchan aruch, gemara, etc which take much more effort and time). I see many who idolize them for their money. Yes it’s very scary.
A+. Couldn’t have said it better
Make that R Dr. Bashevkin, he just defended his doctoral thesis.
Now he can defend this.
He is not saying there is anything wrong with being a gvir. He is not suggesting everyone be poor
What he is saying is that we should not make them into celebrities and treat them differently because they have money.
Thank you for being brave enough to say this loud and clear. Although I live out of town where being yeshivish is still not considered “nerdy”, it is still prevalent here to a much lesser degree, and I see how yiddishkeit is based on culture rather than the real authentic stuff like davening, learning and being machmir b’mitzvos. How frum a person is, is based on how you dress, how fashionable you are, how your house looks, how with it you are and it all stems from the “gvir” attitude. Being yeshivish and looking up to our gedolim, rabbanim and klei kodesh is “out” and looking up to the baaei batim is “in”. We need baalei batim and this doesn’t take away from all they do for klal yisroel. We know without them torah is doomed. But they are not and never will be equal to Torah. As long as our society puts an emphasis on the gashmiyus defining a person, this will not change. And all influencers in the Torah world can work together to change this attitude. The yeshivish oilam should not be considered nerds!!!
It’s not the yeshivish that makes you a nerd but rather the out of town yeshivish that does it.
In Iggeres HaRamban – The Ramban’s Letter
(Written to his elder son, Nachman, with the instruction to read it weekly.)
It says… “And now, my son, understand and observe that whoever feels that he is greater than others is rebelling against the Kingship of Hashem, because he is adorning himself with His garments, as it is written (Tehillim 93:1), “Hashem reigns, He wears clothes of pride.” Why should one feel proud? Is it because of wealth? Hashem makes one poor or rich (I Shmuel 2:7). Is it because of honor? It belongs to Hashem, as we read (I Divrei Hayamim 29:12), “Wealth and honor come from You.” So how could one adorn himself with Hashem’s honor? And one who is proud of his wisdom surely knows that Hashem “takes away the speech of assured men and reasoning from the sages” (Iyov 12:20)!? So we see that everyone is the same before Hashem, since with His anger He lowers the proud and when He wishes He raises the low. So lower yourself and Hashem will lift you up!
Therefore, I will now explain to you how to always behave humbly. Speak gently at all times, with your head bowed, your eyes looking down to the ground and your heart focusing on Hashem. Don’t look at the face of the person to whom you are speaking. Consider everyone as greater than yourself. If he is wise or rich, you should give him respect. If he is poor and you are richer — or wiser — than he, consider yourself to be more guilty than he, and that he is more worthy than you, since when he sins it is through error, while yours is deliberate and you should know better!…”
boruch hashem many yidden today have been blessed with an extraordinary amount of wealth and they literally don’t even know what to do with their wealth. A gvir today has a home in Brooklyn, Lakewood, Miami, Country and of course Israel. Succos, Pesach, Chanukah, midwinter and summer vacations are spent in luxurious hotels. It is a wonder a gvir knows where they will be sleeping in any given night. when a gvir makes a simcha today it has to be over the top wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars in a matter of hours. The food that gets thrown out at these simchas could feed many yeshivas and poor kollel families for weeks.
Unfortunately today it is the gvir that is leading the way in klal yisroel and not the gedolim.
Just as an example a gvir recently made a bar mitzva and all his gvir friends instead of bringing seforim as gifts they each brought bottles of the fanciest bottles of schnaps some costing a few thousand dollars each. The bar mitzva boy got so much shnaps that they had no room in the house to keep it except in the poor kids room.
Things are so out of control with the Jones trying to out do the Jones is no wonder the goyim hate us so much.
How are you not embarrassed to write that headline?? Did you listen to what he said? He respectfully and carefully pointed out see pitfalls of idolizing people based of financial status alone. But that headline probably wouldn’t have gotten as many clicks… Shame on you.
Are you from that crowd?
True true. When I tell people that my father always said that Gvirim are usually Gvirim on the expense of something else and very often not mentally well. To think how idolizing the Torah world has become of the Gvir and the rebbish world ; it is freightening. The real ben torah at the side is nothing. It ended up pushing Bnei Torah also into Elitism; you cant be called a true ben torah if you don’t write a sefer. Say a speech. DO something that will bring you kavod. It’s all because of the Kavod that the Torah world began giving with anyone that has financial privelege or something else and not just old fashioned torah.
Rabbi/Dr/Mr Bashevkin
Do you already know exactly what you need to correct in yourself before you start tooting to the greater klal?
I guess you are already perfect!