So I guess a Chosson and Kalla don’t deserve to have their chaveirim come to their Simcha. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. Disinviting your friends of 20+ years is a sure way to create ahavas yisroel. Having no friends will definitely create more ahava viachva vireius. Being nossen bioel applies to a Simcha as well. Illogical. Will never happen.
Tone down the extra curricular? Yes, definitely. No 5+ piece band. No singers flown in. No 3rd grade Rebbe flown in from different countries. No extra extravagant flowers. No stupid limousines. No hotel rooms. BUT FRIENDS? Yes yes and yes.
The reality is, we have flush toilets, fax machines, and drive automobiles instead of horse and buggy. Saying that 10 generations ago weddings were simple, is so immature and irrelevant, it doesn’t warrant a response.
I’m not a rosh yeshiva or a rov, but I don’t understand.
Why connect a terrible magaifa, to something (over-the-top simchas) that although might be foolish, but is 100% muttar m’doraysa and m’drabunun?
Dear Shmuel,
Who says that it is 100 pecent muttar? If the money we have is really from Hashem, and there are poor people around us who do not have money for basic needs, would Hashem want us to give our extra money to them or to spend it on ourselves on luxuries? Put it this way: When our time comes and we are facing Hashem up in Shamayim and He asks us why we neglected the poor (even if we gave Hashem’s money to some poor people but there were still others in need) and instead spent Hashem’s money on nonsense for ourselves, might we then be sorry for our actions down here on Earth and wish we had done otherwise?
To shmuel: the connection seems clear to me. In last couple weeks we witnessed simchas that were by default very small and toned down and saw that it’s a possibility and that perhaps it’s a lesson we can learn as a result of the magaifa ..noone is saying that’s why the magaifa happened. And those simchas seemed more meaningful and special actually. How many times do you go to a simcha cuz you “have to” and really you belong home with your family etc….of course we want to share in others’ simchas but imagine we only went to the ones that we were very close to? That would make the ones we attended more meaningful and the ones we don’t belong at, it would save money for the baalei simcha..usually money they don’t even have …just my opinion
I read the above קול קורא which on the surface is awesome and AMAZING.
I’m making a chasuna in June be”h. The contract with the caterer/hall makes you pay for 250 couples regardless of how many show up. 450 minimum! I’m going to have to pay for 450 meals even if I stick to the above request. So what am I to do?
You can ask the caterer to lower the price, or you can accept it as your sacrifice for the good of Klal Yisrael. I think it is a small price to pay when you look at the whole picture. And it will be a good zechus for your family, especially for the chassan and kallah!
When I made chasunas we also had the “minimum” issue. We kept the dinner guest list small and the caterer allowed us to put the extra $ from the minimum toward the simchas chosson v kallah refreshments. Another idea? Would the caterer be willing to put the extra $ toward any other needs you may have before or after the chasuna such as the Shabbos before or after?
I applaud them for their courage and strength in coming up with these takanos.
I daven that they enforce it by not attending simchis that don’t follow these new takanos.
Too little , too late. It’s almost a slap in the face!
And who says Hashem is going to allow having a wedding of even 100!
Plus we all know 250 means 350 and before you know it, things will get right back to what they were before.
Fantastic idea! I think Hashem was waiting for things like this, but since we were not doing them, Hashem forced them upon us.
Let’s try to tone down our lifestyles in all ways. We see now how unimportant certain things are. Let’s focus on what is important.
Look how much tzedaka Klal Yisrael is giving now for the bereaved families and for other families in need. It is certainly bringing zechusim to us that we so desperately need now. But let us not need more tragedies to understand what we should spend our money on, and what we should not spend our money on.
We must realize that it is not OUR money. It is Hashem’s money, and we must spend it in the way that brings us zechusim – not on fancy weddings, fancy cars, fancy homes, fancy clothing, fancy parties, fancy mishlaoch manos, etc. These expenditures are a waste of the money that Hashem loans to us in this world. They will do nothing for us in the next world. But when we use our G-d given money to help those in need, when we conduct ourselves humbly, this will be our ticket to a a good life here and in the world to come.
Tehillim Perek 41: “Praiseworthy is he who contemplates the needy, on the day of evil Hashem will deliver him. Hashem will preserve him and restore him to life, and he will be happy on earth, and You will not give him over to the desire of his foes.”
Michah 6: “He has told you, O man, what is good! What does Hashem require of you but to do justice, to love kindness and walk humbly with your G-d.”
I do not know for sure. I used the word “think” in my second sentence.
Also based on the words of tehillim and michah (and many other sources that I did not quote), it would seem to make sense. No?
And we need to make sure that the money we give to tzedaka was earned honestly, and not gained at someone else’s expense. We must pay our workers on time and a decent wage, pay for jobs done for us in a timely fashion, honor contracts, follow the laws of the land, etc.
If the money we give to tzedaka is tainted in any way, I do not think Hashem counts that tzedaka to our credit.
Who’s making large simchas now? It’s not as if a bris can be postponed, a wedding can be postponed, or even a shidduch can be postponed. Not the time now to talk about toning down large simchos for the future.
The point is that we’ve been forced to make small simchas with only siblings present and very close family. If we accept upon ourselves to voluntarily continue this in moderation (max 250), the zchus may help end the forced situation.
I think davka this is the time! Hashem doesn’t send us tzaros except to wake us up ! I think we all know in our hearts and neshamos that this aspect of our lives has to change. Hashem was not happy with how we were spending HIS money and He forced us into this scenario where luxuries do not exist anymore.
Shmuel ,
Yerushalayim was destroyed because they paskened exactly by halacha and didn’t have a heart. Wedding expenses have given heart attacks , severe debt and unbearable stress. You’ll find d’oreises snd d’rabanans there galore. Many baalei simchas can’t even be truly happy when marrying off the children. So the mitzvah of being mesameach chooson kallah, which includes father and mother is what? It’s extra money being forced to be squeezed out . There’s a d’oreise there someplace.
When powerful people will stop the masses will follow. However when during an outbreak a person who owns a chasuna hall makes a chasuna in it with only 50 men only 50 women we are doomed. Shame on such people
How about the deoraytah of Lo Taamod Al Dam Reyyecho ?
Family,s finances depleted , shalom bayit broken and forever in debt. Children in cheder must be taught the middah of not lusting after extravagance. Don’t give thousands in the exchange of gifts between chattann / kallah either if you can’t afford it. It’s almost nothing if the young man is a big pilpul lamdan but want lavish gifts and weddings. Same for girl. If you’re not rich, accept it and don’t imitate. It’s out of control. People are embarrased and nobody cares. Shaming people is deoyraytah. Lay out the table with sponge cake and finished. I’m wearing a $19.99 Casio watch and it gives me accurate time.
We need to change our attitudes fast.
Just a question. Can we get people to publicly pledge they will NOT attend such a chasuna if it takes place by one of their own?
How about the razy elaborate mansions in the home cities AND the same with summer country homes>
I thought we would have learned from the last time this was tried. If you don’t put a dollar amount on it it’s worthless. According to this one can fly 250 people to Hawaii rent a hotel serve a meal that will cost $200 per plate have the New York Philharmonic orchestra play, Spielberg film the event, Fly in all the choshve yidden from the whole world and you’re such a good person for listening. But the person who comes from a family of 14 is mishadich with someone with 13 children and they each come from very large mishpachas have 260 immediate family at their chicken dinner in a yeshiva dining room are poretz geder. 250 people is not being realistic. Let all who think this is a good idea take out their invite list and 90% will see 125 people per side is not realistic. Part 1
Reminds me of an article in the Jewish Press by Rabbi Klass 40 years ago that an unusual number of infant deaths in Far Rockaway was punishment for mixed dancing.
Put a dollar amount on it. it’s usually not the seuda that is the issue it’s everything else. Put a limit of $500 on the kallah’s gown, all other family members can only wear dresses up to $300 the chasan’s suit $300 and everyone else $200. The seuda can only cost up to $10,000. Limit the amount spent on the music and singer and photography. A takana needs a dollar amount not a people amount. We saw this last time this was tried when a person with a very large house could make an elaborate vort in his house and the person who lived with 11 children in a 3 bedroom apartment also had to use his house. Who were you putting more stress on. Number limits don’t help only dollar limits will help
My brother had exactly this story he was the first one to make a vort after our kehilla made a takana that vorts can only be made in your house. He was told to cancel the hall he booked. So he made it in his house which meant his wife had to take off from work to buy things and to set up. Since he has a small apartment and one entrance the men and woman were getting in each other’s way. A neighbor saw what was going on and set up for the woman in her house. By the way, the rosh hakahal who pushed for this takanah made all his vorts in his house but he was able to afford to hire waiters and caterer in his big house. I say just say go cold turkey and make a lechayim with the chosson kalla and the parents.
Shouldn’t be made in times of stress? Really? That’s about the only time that people keep them is when they feel threatened and are willing to then make serious commitments otherwise the attitude is “ who are you to tell me how to live” so let’s get honest and start thinking about the purpose of life and acting accordingly whether it’s the way we treat others or the way we Daven or in general the way we live
Hashem runs the world with Mida Kanagat Mida ,therefore let us try to understand what we did wrong and now we are being punish.(!) We did not conduct our self properly in Shuls (talking during Davening,using phone, etc.)
RESULT,WE CAN NOT GO TO SHUL NOW !
(2) Yeshivas,Girls Schools did not accept kids in schools resulted in most kids going off the DERECH.
RESULT,Yeshivas and Girl schools are closed.
(3) unlimited money was wasted by going to hotels for Peasch.
RESULT ALL HOTELS ARE CLOSED FOR PEASCH.
(4) Ulimited money wasted for Weddings,Bar & Bat Mitzvas,Schools & Yeshivas dinners.
RESULT ,no Weddings in Halls,no Bar & Bat Mitzvas,no Schools & Yeshivas dinners.
May we all do complete Tashuva ASAP. May Hashem have mercy on all of us, and send ALL OF US Refuah shalama. May Hashem remove this Virus from Kllal Yisroel . May it be the right time for Misheach .May it be the right time for the third Beis Hamikdash, AMEN.
Rabban Gamliel (כתובות ח ע”ב) would not agree with this proposed takana–HE WOULD LIMIT CHASUNOS to a minyan for everyone!!!! The choson, the kallah, their parents, two witnesses, the rabbi m’sader, and 5-6 extra men to make the minyan. 250 people limit is NOT A TAKANA at all.
Kol Hakovod. Long overdue. And NOW IS THE TIME to make such takonos. But it will need to be enforced for it to hold:
1). Rabbonim – if they are to get any kibbudim at a Chasuna such as Sidrei Kedushin they should predicate it on the keeping of such takanos. If they come to that Chasuna and see that it is not so; they must walk out immediately in protest
2) The Oilam – if you go to a vort, kiddush, Chasuna, Bris, etc and you see that they are not keeping to the takonos; say your MAZAL TOV and WALK OUT – don’t eat anything!!
The message will get out load and clear.
This waste of money that causes for most people debt and sickness must stop. And it is the “Tovah” of all that these takanos hold and we don’t c”v go back to our old sick ways.
To those gevirim that make Chasunas in hotels such as the Hilton etc – aside from the waste of money, you are the cause of sinas Yisroel as the goyim walking around there watch our ladies in their expensive clothes dripping with jewelry.
Do Klal Yisroel a favor and stop this.
This was tried so many times. I remember full page ads in the Jewish Observer back in the 80’s with “Simcha Guidelines”. Nobody listened. How can the average person have any believe in this when you have big givirim making a Chassuna and everyone is flown in for the “event”. I’m not trying to be negative. I’m just stating the reality on the ground. Yes, we see with our eyes what’s doing out there. Do as I say and not ad I do, doesn’t work for the average person aboce the age of 7.
How about talking about the kids who couldn’t get married because they were forced out of our schools? Or labeled special Ed so shidduchim don’t happen for them? Or the kids who committed suicide due to abuse and will never get married? Did anyone think that needs to be corrected? What about the shadchanim who trashed folks reputations and tried to stop folks from being set up? Was that set right? What about the abusive guys who haven’t given gittin?
Now you are broaching on the real pandemic! Yes, the situation with our children has become a pandemic. Children from very good homes. The pain is unbearable. Maybe the Master of the Universe counted all our tears and said enough! When will this terrible issue be taken seriously by our Rabbonim, Mechanchim and Roshei Yeshiva! Perhaps this is the message. Perhaps this is why so many of them are corona victims. Why do we have to dig so deep? Unfortunately, it’s very simple. We just need to be willing to open our eyes.
So many things people can do one for another — bein odom l’chaverio, which owing to our hectic lives is lacking. Maybe go back to the old ways, when people actually had time for each other. So many people lead very lonely lives because of texting.
How about spending quality time with our friends and relatives. The way it used to be. What is this decree to tone down simchas? I don’t get it and it will not work. This is merely another way to tighten the hold over the masses. Rediculous!
Scores of rabbanim and roshei yeshiva signed a major kol koreh 15 years ago with detailed rules and takanos for the tzibbur re vorts and chasunas. Unfortunately, the tzibbur basically
forgot/ignored them for years.
The only halls that can seat 250 people with room for dancing are our regular Chassuna halls. This means that we’re still going to be making our simchas in the same places and paying the same amount of money. If the guidelines would limit to 150 people, or even 100, we could start using our shul halls, and then things would truly change.
Some of the commenters before me gave some good ideas and many had valid reservations. I don’t know who wrote these “takonos” but the way it was written this will go the same way the other takonos went. I B”H made a few weddings and yes I’m still paying off my debt so I feel entitled to give my tree cents (thats what I got left 🙂 ) First they write not to have elaborate vorts. Ok who defines elaborate? Do you make it in a hall, or in your house or maybe not at all. What if your chasidish so you make a lechayim and tenayim. 250 invited guests that’s ridiculous!! That’s 125 couples. That’s what I invited to my weddings. What’s wrong with going cold turkey and say you invite to the meal only your immediate family, not even first cousins. But this can only work if the halls cooperate. Some halls have crazy minimums and if you only take the minimum they nickel and dime you for everything else. One hall I used charged $125 to have a white stage for the kalla. Then there’s nothing on this list that addresses all the extras. You have a choson watch, the Kallas jewelry, the flowers that you send for the vort and shabbos kalah that goes in the garbage. The gowns and the $5000 shtrimal. I can understand in our circles setting up an apartment but why are we giving support for who knows how many years so that a young man can sit in kollel while his parents take on 3-4 jobs. why are we buying them a car? What I write can be applied to any simcha that has gotten so out of hand like the vach nacht. I’m sure anyone that made a wedding can add to this list. My point is that if ALL OF THESE ISSUES aren’t addressed at this time then when this is over we’ll be back where we started.
The message from the Rabbonim is for all of us, to tone it all down. It’s gotten way out of hand and with a tremendous lack of tznius. It’s a great message, it doesn’t matter when and why. You will only benefit from it. Don’t knock it.
If there was a running list in our publications every week of people making simchas and who’ve agreed to keep things toned down – that can and should be applauded. People just need cover. The public overwhelming want to not have to expend these amounts.
If people that can afford to do more elaborate affairs and are empathetic and courageous enough to add themselves to a list, then this has a much better chance of working.
For the sake of ourselves and our future generations, whether you’re rich today or poor, stop making Simchas massive financial burdens. The wealth ends somewhere and at some time.
While I applaud this effort, and think it would be wonderful, there is almost an assumption being made here that things will financially return to “normal” and people will be able to afford these chasunas and simchas, pesach programs and more. We have no idea what is going to be. 10 million people applied for unemployment in March and things might Chas VShalom just be starting to unravel!
To me, if there is an observation, it is that HaShem in His kindness is destroying the American economy, the main reason why most of us don’t move to Eretz Yisrael. We are being given an opportunity since E.Y. will now be so much easier to justify. (Perhaps this is why oil is losing its value as well) Reb Chaim Kanievsky is always telling us it will be better in the long run for us to be there. Something to think about.
Moving there is not so simple. Statistics show that many of those that do, have their teenagers go off the derech. The culture shock is not something to be taken lightly. You can’t make blanket statements.
As far as the wedding halls are concerned, many halls are owned by Yeshivos and that is a way how they bring in revenue. There are many others who make their parnasa thru wedding halls. Don’t just throw them under the bus.
An idea whos time has come. Kol hakavod.
So I guess a Chosson and Kalla don’t deserve to have their chaveirim come to their Simcha. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. Disinviting your friends of 20+ years is a sure way to create ahavas yisroel. Having no friends will definitely create more ahava viachva vireius. Being nossen bioel applies to a Simcha as well. Illogical. Will never happen.
Tone down the extra curricular? Yes, definitely. No 5+ piece band. No singers flown in. No 3rd grade Rebbe flown in from different countries. No extra extravagant flowers. No stupid limousines. No hotel rooms. BUT FRIENDS? Yes yes and yes.
The reality is, we have flush toilets, fax machines, and drive automobiles instead of horse and buggy. Saying that 10 generations ago weddings were simple, is so immature and irrelevant, it doesn’t warrant a response.
Who said you can’t invite friends? Invite a million friends. But invite them to dance with you. There is no reason you have to pay for their meal.
um, what part of coming to a simchas chosson v’kallah is “dis-inviting” may i ask?
I’m not a rosh yeshiva or a rov, but I don’t understand.
Why connect a terrible magaifa, to something (over-the-top simchas) that although might be foolish, but is 100% muttar m’doraysa and m’drabunun?
Dear Shmuel,
Who says that it is 100 pecent muttar? If the money we have is really from Hashem, and there are poor people around us who do not have money for basic needs, would Hashem want us to give our extra money to them or to spend it on ourselves on luxuries? Put it this way: When our time comes and we are facing Hashem up in Shamayim and He asks us why we neglected the poor (even if we gave Hashem’s money to some poor people but there were still others in need) and instead spent Hashem’s money on nonsense for ourselves, might we then be sorry for our actions down here on Earth and wish we had done otherwise?
so is stealing less than shava peruta in the times of the mabul
Just wondering …how about the new mansions going up and the expensive clothing stores
nything on that
If people can’t afford something, don’t buy it. Don’t have a bad eye on those that do. That’s jealosy. The root of all bad middos.
To shmuel: the connection seems clear to me. In last couple weeks we witnessed simchas that were by default very small and toned down and saw that it’s a possibility and that perhaps it’s a lesson we can learn as a result of the magaifa ..noone is saying that’s why the magaifa happened. And those simchas seemed more meaningful and special actually. How many times do you go to a simcha cuz you “have to” and really you belong home with your family etc….of course we want to share in others’ simchas but imagine we only went to the ones that we were very close to? That would make the ones we attended more meaningful and the ones we don’t belong at, it would save money for the baalei simcha..usually money they don’t even have …just my opinion
this is the place to start, that will happen with time….
I read the above קול קורא which on the surface is awesome and AMAZING.
I’m making a chasuna in June be”h. The contract with the caterer/hall makes you pay for 250 couples regardless of how many show up. 450 minimum! I’m going to have to pay for 450 meals even if I stick to the above request. So what am I to do?
You can ask the caterer to lower the price, or you can accept it as your sacrifice for the good of Klal Yisrael. I think it is a small price to pay when you look at the whole picture. And it will be a good zechus for your family, especially for the chassan and kallah!
When I made chasunas we also had the “minimum” issue. We kept the dinner guest list small and the caterer allowed us to put the extra $ from the minimum toward the simchas chosson v kallah refreshments. Another idea? Would the caterer be willing to put the extra $ toward any other needs you may have before or after the chasuna such as the Shabbos before or after?
I’m in man!
I applaud them for their courage and strength in coming up with these takanos.
I daven that they enforce it by not attending simchis that don’t follow these new takanos.
What about “askanim” wedfings
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
We’re waking up! May we all be zoicheh to attend many simchos soon.
Too little , too late. It’s almost a slap in the face!
And who says Hashem is going to allow having a wedding of even 100!
Plus we all know 250 means 350 and before you know it, things will get right back to what they were before.
Fantastic idea! I think Hashem was waiting for things like this, but since we were not doing them, Hashem forced them upon us.
Let’s try to tone down our lifestyles in all ways. We see now how unimportant certain things are. Let’s focus on what is important.
Look how much tzedaka Klal Yisrael is giving now for the bereaved families and for other families in need. It is certainly bringing zechusim to us that we so desperately need now. But let us not need more tragedies to understand what we should spend our money on, and what we should not spend our money on.
We must realize that it is not OUR money. It is Hashem’s money, and we must spend it in the way that brings us zechusim – not on fancy weddings, fancy cars, fancy homes, fancy clothing, fancy parties, fancy mishlaoch manos, etc. These expenditures are a waste of the money that Hashem loans to us in this world. They will do nothing for us in the next world. But when we use our G-d given money to help those in need, when we conduct ourselves humbly, this will be our ticket to a a good life here and in the world to come.
Tehillim Perek 41: “Praiseworthy is he who contemplates the needy, on the day of evil Hashem will deliver him. Hashem will preserve him and restore him to life, and he will be happy on earth, and You will not give him over to the desire of his foes.”
Michah 6: “He has told you, O man, what is good! What does Hashem require of you but to do justice, to love kindness and walk humbly with your G-d.”
U know what god thinks?
I do not know for sure. I used the word “think” in my second sentence.
Also based on the words of tehillim and michah (and many other sources that I did not quote), it would seem to make sense. No?
Hey trashface,
Whats a chassidic jew? Your shucker? You go back to the doctor now and ask him why you want a war. We do not.
Crib wanderer kids just fail.
@Why not cross want baiting off the list
Google translate FAIL
And we need to make sure that the money we give to tzedaka was earned honestly, and not gained at someone else’s expense. We must pay our workers on time and a decent wage, pay for jobs done for us in a timely fashion, honor contracts, follow the laws of the land, etc.
If the money we give to tzedaka is tainted in any way, I do not think Hashem counts that tzedaka to our credit.
Who’s making large simchas now? It’s not as if a bris can be postponed, a wedding can be postponed, or even a shidduch can be postponed. Not the time now to talk about toning down large simchos for the future.
Daas Baal habayis hepech daas torah
The point is that we’ve been forced to make small simchas with only siblings present and very close family. If we accept upon ourselves to voluntarily continue this in moderation (max 250), the zchus may help end the forced situation.
Quite the opposite. If we don’t carry any lessons from now into the future, what are we?
I think davka this is the time! Hashem doesn’t send us tzaros except to wake us up ! I think we all know in our hearts and neshamos that this aspect of our lives has to change. Hashem was not happy with how we were spending HIS money and He forced us into this scenario where luxuries do not exist anymore.
Shmuel ,
Yerushalayim was destroyed because they paskened exactly by halacha and didn’t have a heart. Wedding expenses have given heart attacks , severe debt and unbearable stress. You’ll find d’oreises snd d’rabanans there galore. Many baalei simchas can’t even be truly happy when marrying off the children. So the mitzvah of being mesameach chooson kallah, which includes father and mother is what? It’s extra money being forced to be squeezed out . There’s a d’oreise there someplace.
When powerful people will stop the masses will follow. However when during an outbreak a person who owns a chasuna hall makes a chasuna in it with only 50 men only 50 women we are doomed. Shame on such people
How about the deoraytah of Lo Taamod Al Dam Reyyecho ?
Family,s finances depleted , shalom bayit broken and forever in debt. Children in cheder must be taught the middah of not lusting after extravagance. Don’t give thousands in the exchange of gifts between chattann / kallah either if you can’t afford it. It’s almost nothing if the young man is a big pilpul lamdan but want lavish gifts and weddings. Same for girl. If you’re not rich, accept it and don’t imitate. It’s out of control. People are embarrased and nobody cares. Shaming people is deoyraytah. Lay out the table with sponge cake and finished. I’m wearing a $19.99 Casio watch and it gives me accurate time.
We need to change our attitudes fast.
hear hear
Just a question. Can we get people to publicly pledge they will NOT attend such a chasuna if it takes place by one of their own?
How about the razy elaborate mansions in the home cities AND the same with summer country homes>
I thought we would have learned from the last time this was tried. If you don’t put a dollar amount on it it’s worthless. According to this one can fly 250 people to Hawaii rent a hotel serve a meal that will cost $200 per plate have the New York Philharmonic orchestra play, Spielberg film the event, Fly in all the choshve yidden from the whole world and you’re such a good person for listening. But the person who comes from a family of 14 is mishadich with someone with 13 children and they each come from very large mishpachas have 260 immediate family at their chicken dinner in a yeshiva dining room are poretz geder. 250 people is not being realistic. Let all who think this is a good idea take out their invite list and 90% will see 125 people per side is not realistic. Part 1
Reminds me of an article in the Jewish Press by Rabbi Klass 40 years ago that an unusual number of infant deaths in Far Rockaway was punishment for mixed dancing.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Put a dollar amount on it. it’s usually not the seuda that is the issue it’s everything else. Put a limit of $500 on the kallah’s gown, all other family members can only wear dresses up to $300 the chasan’s suit $300 and everyone else $200. The seuda can only cost up to $10,000. Limit the amount spent on the music and singer and photography. A takana needs a dollar amount not a people amount. We saw this last time this was tried when a person with a very large house could make an elaborate vort in his house and the person who lived with 11 children in a 3 bedroom apartment also had to use his house. Who were you putting more stress on. Number limits don’t help only dollar limits will help
My brother had exactly this story he was the first one to make a vort after our kehilla made a takana that vorts can only be made in your house. He was told to cancel the hall he booked. So he made it in his house which meant his wife had to take off from work to buy things and to set up. Since he has a small apartment and one entrance the men and woman were getting in each other’s way. A neighbor saw what was going on and set up for the woman in her house. By the way, the rosh hakahal who pushed for this takanah made all his vorts in his house but he was able to afford to hire waiters and caterer in his big house. I say just say go cold turkey and make a lechayim with the chosson kalla and the parents.
Shouldn’t be made in times of stress? Really? That’s about the only time that people keep them is when they feel threatened and are willing to then make serious commitments otherwise the attitude is “ who are you to tell me how to live” so let’s get honest and start thinking about the purpose of life and acting accordingly whether it’s the way we treat others or the way we Daven or in general the way we live
Not only kabbolas but some make nedarim in time of strees.
Hashem runs the world with Mida Kanagat Mida ,therefore let us try to understand what we did wrong and now we are being punish.(!) We did not conduct our self properly in Shuls (talking during Davening,using phone, etc.)
RESULT,WE CAN NOT GO TO SHUL NOW !
(2) Yeshivas,Girls Schools did not accept kids in schools resulted in most kids going off the DERECH.
RESULT,Yeshivas and Girl schools are closed.
(3) unlimited money was wasted by going to hotels for Peasch.
RESULT ALL HOTELS ARE CLOSED FOR PEASCH.
(4) Ulimited money wasted for Weddings,Bar & Bat Mitzvas,Schools & Yeshivas dinners.
RESULT ,no Weddings in Halls,no Bar & Bat Mitzvas,no Schools & Yeshivas dinners.
May we all do complete Tashuva ASAP. May Hashem have mercy on all of us, and send ALL OF US Refuah shalama. May Hashem remove this Virus from Kllal Yisroel . May it be the right time for Misheach .May it be the right time for the third Beis Hamikdash, AMEN.
Rabban Gamliel (כתובות ח ע”ב) would not agree with this proposed takana–HE WOULD LIMIT CHASUNOS to a minyan for everyone!!!! The choson, the kallah, their parents, two witnesses, the rabbi m’sader, and 5-6 extra men to make the minyan. 250 people limit is NOT A TAKANA at all.
Kol Hakovod. Long overdue. And NOW IS THE TIME to make such takonos. But it will need to be enforced for it to hold:
1). Rabbonim – if they are to get any kibbudim at a Chasuna such as Sidrei Kedushin they should predicate it on the keeping of such takanos. If they come to that Chasuna and see that it is not so; they must walk out immediately in protest
2) The Oilam – if you go to a vort, kiddush, Chasuna, Bris, etc and you see that they are not keeping to the takonos; say your MAZAL TOV and WALK OUT – don’t eat anything!!
The message will get out load and clear.
This waste of money that causes for most people debt and sickness must stop. And it is the “Tovah” of all that these takanos hold and we don’t c”v go back to our old sick ways.
To those gevirim that make Chasunas in hotels such as the Hilton etc – aside from the waste of money, you are the cause of sinas Yisroel as the goyim walking around there watch our ladies in their expensive clothes dripping with jewelry.
Do Klal Yisroel a favor and stop this.
This was tried so many times. I remember full page ads in the Jewish Observer back in the 80’s with “Simcha Guidelines”. Nobody listened. How can the average person have any believe in this when you have big givirim making a Chassuna and everyone is flown in for the “event”. I’m not trying to be negative. I’m just stating the reality on the ground. Yes, we see with our eyes what’s doing out there. Do as I say and not ad I do, doesn’t work for the average person aboce the age of 7.
How about talking about the kids who couldn’t get married because they were forced out of our schools? Or labeled special Ed so shidduchim don’t happen for them? Or the kids who committed suicide due to abuse and will never get married? Did anyone think that needs to be corrected? What about the shadchanim who trashed folks reputations and tried to stop folks from being set up? Was that set right? What about the abusive guys who haven’t given gittin?
Now you are broaching on the real pandemic! Yes, the situation with our children has become a pandemic. Children from very good homes. The pain is unbearable. Maybe the Master of the Universe counted all our tears and said enough! When will this terrible issue be taken seriously by our Rabbonim, Mechanchim and Roshei Yeshiva! Perhaps this is the message. Perhaps this is why so many of them are corona victims. Why do we have to dig so deep? Unfortunately, it’s very simple. We just need to be willing to open our eyes.
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Thank you for having the courage to post
So many things people can do one for another — bein odom l’chaverio, which owing to our hectic lives is lacking. Maybe go back to the old ways, when people actually had time for each other. So many people lead very lonely lives because of texting.
How about spending quality time with our friends and relatives. The way it used to be. What is this decree to tone down simchas? I don’t get it and it will not work. This is merely another way to tighten the hold over the masses. Rediculous!
Scores of rabbanim and roshei yeshiva signed a major kol koreh 15 years ago with detailed rules and takanos for the tzibbur re vorts and chasunas. Unfortunately, the tzibbur basically
forgot/ignored them for years.
I hope you will post my earlier reply!
The only halls that can seat 250 people with room for dancing are our regular Chassuna halls. This means that we’re still going to be making our simchas in the same places and paying the same amount of money. If the guidelines would limit to 150 people, or even 100, we could start using our shul halls, and then things would truly change.
Perhaps we should start doing that.
Some of the commenters before me gave some good ideas and many had valid reservations. I don’t know who wrote these “takonos” but the way it was written this will go the same way the other takonos went. I B”H made a few weddings and yes I’m still paying off my debt so I feel entitled to give my tree cents (thats what I got left 🙂 ) First they write not to have elaborate vorts. Ok who defines elaborate? Do you make it in a hall, or in your house or maybe not at all. What if your chasidish so you make a lechayim and tenayim. 250 invited guests that’s ridiculous!! That’s 125 couples. That’s what I invited to my weddings. What’s wrong with going cold turkey and say you invite to the meal only your immediate family, not even first cousins. But this can only work if the halls cooperate. Some halls have crazy minimums and if you only take the minimum they nickel and dime you for everything else. One hall I used charged $125 to have a white stage for the kalla. Then there’s nothing on this list that addresses all the extras. You have a choson watch, the Kallas jewelry, the flowers that you send for the vort and shabbos kalah that goes in the garbage. The gowns and the $5000 shtrimal. I can understand in our circles setting up an apartment but why are we giving support for who knows how many years so that a young man can sit in kollel while his parents take on 3-4 jobs. why are we buying them a car? What I write can be applied to any simcha that has gotten so out of hand like the vach nacht. I’m sure anyone that made a wedding can add to this list. My point is that if ALL OF THESE ISSUES aren’t addressed at this time then when this is over we’ll be back where we started.
The message from the Rabbonim is for all of us, to tone it all down. It’s gotten way out of hand and with a tremendous lack of tznius. It’s a great message, it doesn’t matter when and why. You will only benefit from it. Don’t knock it.
If there was a running list in our publications every week of people making simchas and who’ve agreed to keep things toned down – that can and should be applauded. People just need cover. The public overwhelming want to not have to expend these amounts.
If people that can afford to do more elaborate affairs and are empathetic and courageous enough to add themselves to a list, then this has a much better chance of working.
For the sake of ourselves and our future generations, whether you’re rich today or poor, stop making Simchas massive financial burdens. The wealth ends somewhere and at some time.
While I applaud this effort, and think it would be wonderful, there is almost an assumption being made here that things will financially return to “normal” and people will be able to afford these chasunas and simchas, pesach programs and more. We have no idea what is going to be. 10 million people applied for unemployment in March and things might Chas VShalom just be starting to unravel!
To me, if there is an observation, it is that HaShem in His kindness is destroying the American economy, the main reason why most of us don’t move to Eretz Yisrael. We are being given an opportunity since E.Y. will now be so much easier to justify. (Perhaps this is why oil is losing its value as well) Reb Chaim Kanievsky is always telling us it will be better in the long run for us to be there. Something to think about.
Moving there is not so simple. Statistics show that many of those that do, have their teenagers go off the derech. The culture shock is not something to be taken lightly. You can’t make blanket statements.
As far as the wedding halls are concerned, many halls are owned by Yeshivos and that is a way how they bring in revenue. There are many others who make their parnasa thru wedding halls. Don’t just throw them under the bus.
To Yosef Milgrom when are you moving?
I would if things go sour here.