Matzav Inbox: I Wish I Was Adirei HaTorah. All I Am is a Stupid Joe.

Yiddishkeit isn’t a joke. Shemzach for publishing this letter

You are takeh very stupid. Not just a regular stupid, but a big stupid.

Personal question for the letter writer. So why weren’t you at the Aderei? If those in kollel have it so good and easy why aren’t you one of them?

The daf yomi siyum hashas is a lot bogger event and it honors baaley batim who are kovea itim

Truth be know if you were to ask Roshey Yeshiva on stage at the Aderie event what it better to be a 40 year baal habos who is a solid kovea itim learning as many hours as the writer of this letter say he does or be a yungerman that age who is at tremendous risk of burn out, the majority would tell you better to be a baal habos learning that many hours even though the yungeman is still learning more hours a day. What honor would you like me to give you?

I fail to understand why you call yourself a “Plain Stupid Joe”. You’re a tzaddik nistar.

Dear Smart Joe,
You are a whole lot more than you think you are, so don’t call yourself Stupid. You are doing the correct thing; earning a living so you can help make ends meet. You are a good husband, and you go out to learn whenever you can. That’s what you should be doing. You are a smart Joe! Keep up the good work and keep up the sedarim in learning.
Nothing wrong with Torah Im Derech Eretz.

You are also adirei hatorah

Dear Joe,
I am a Bob and I do the same and although I get Yom Tov and Chol HaMoed off due to my commute I dont have the zechus to learn from 5:30 to 7 nor the complete night seder that you enjoy .
However I was there .
I moved to Lakewood many years ago when it was considered a simple town
I have noticed our tzibur KAH growing in leaps and bounds but also have observed the fulcrum shifting to a place where an avreich is underappreciated in the eyes of many perhaps even in his own .
We desperately needed to infuse a ruach of HaRomas Keren HaTorah to a level where kids “who have everything” can be envious of kids whose fathers learn full time and not vice versa
I think this is helping
Perhaps we should have a Sunday where Joe`s and Bob`s are celebrated . Perhaps you can create a movement
I wish you much success and hope that you can afford to retire soon and rejoin the ranks of the Adirei Torah
BeHatzlacha
Bob

Dear Joe,

Before you penned this letter you are obviously a warrior and champion of Torah Learning early in the mornings and evenings.
However, based on your letter, I concede with your opinion that you are stupid Joe.

Wow. Great letter
Kol hakavod to Matzav for printing this.
Im in the same boat
though I think the yungeleit are heroes for what they do

Do you need me to fundraise for your Kollel check

When you get up to Shamayim after 120 years, there will a huge reward waiting for you in Olam Haba. Hashem judges you on effort

Wow. An article with meaningless flair.

How many people will comment on this one?

Before the criticism comes, I want to validate your feelings and tell you that I am honoring you, as well as the other hard working, middle class, ehriche bnei torah. You don’t get any applause but guaranteed, HKBH is shepping nachas! Keep doing what you’re doing because you are providing for your family which is quite a big zchus and you are holding up the world too, in your own quiet way. Perhaps your reward in the next world will be greater because you received no recognition or honor in this world. You’re doing your best to serve Hashem in the way you were meant to and that is all that matters!

The more Kavod you get in this world (from people) will diminish from Kavod you’ll get from H-shem in the next world

EMES. OF COURSE BEING ABLE TO LEARN TORAH FULLTIME IS A GREAT BRACHA. HOWEVER YOU ARE LEARNING 100% L’SHMA and YOUR REWARD WILL BE BEYOND CALCULATION! THERE SHOULD BE AN EVENT HONORING PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!

Hey, Korach also felt like a stupid Joe because he wasn’t the Kohein Gadol & rebelled against Moshe & Ahron. This isn’t a healthy attitude for a Ben Torah. There will always be the yechidei segulah who merit to learn all day & night, & then there’s the rest of us, struggling with our parnassah, Hashem has a great plan for all of us. Find yourself a Rov that believes in you Stupid Joe. In addition, there are several seforim that came out recently including the one Ben Torah For Life By Rav Ahron Lopiansky specifically addressing your feelings.
In truth, many of the current Adirei Hatorah will be working full time in a couple of years just like you. Only a small percentage of Klal Yisroel are learners for life.

You are anything but a plain stupid Joe. You are a fighter who is standing up and doing what’s right for your family while learning Torah for a truly impressive chunk of your day. There may not be massive public events honoring you, but don’t let that minimize your holy work.
I, on behalf of klal Yisroel, salute you.

I feel the same way Joe
I have the same daily minyan and shiurim routine as you and I was not invited to my former Kollel BMG’s party at the on the Ocean Beach Mansion on Golden Beach Florida. I missed the Live Tigers, Fine Wines, Whiskey and over the top gourmet Michellin Chefs.
I did not qualify for invite list or the pre-requisite of flying with private piloted Jets into executive airports or being in the Health Care field.
I missed the Roshei Yeshivos reaction to the male and female Tigers getting frisky with each other or the attending BMG Roshei Yeshivas critique on the cousine and ambiance.
While I do/did support my children so that they can learn in Kollel I am happy that BMG has come out of the dreaded dark ages of the past 70 years of poverty and can be treated like absolute rock stars that they are.

If this is a shill article, so be it. If not, this “stupid Joe” is unfortunately very bitter about nothing. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that the author is actually as dedicated a lomeid Torah as his treatise claims, although the point of my comment is the same either way.

My guess is that the author is trying to make a point. He feels his mesiras nefesh for Torah is as worthy of celebration as those being honored by Adirei HaTorah, and therefore there is something misguided about the big celebration. He is right that his Torah is just as worthy of celebration as a Yeshivaman’s Torah (maybe more, given his obvious mesiras nefesh), but he is dead wrong about the rest.

Mr. APSJ, do you agree that Klal Yisroel needs serious, in depth students of Torah? Of course you do. Do you agree that although not everyone is able to be that serious 24-7 lamdan, anyone who is able should make the attempt, so that as many as possible should succeed and be great, necessary assets for the Klal? Of course you do. Do you believe that anyone who chooses to go the route of the serious Ben-Torah should live in abject poverty, or would you prefer that the zchus of keeping them solvent be volunteered by the rest of us? You certainly prefer the latter.

So how do we go about it? Do we make an event for guys like you and me (I wish I were as dedicated as you), letting everyone know how choshuv you are? What purpose would that serve? Only to lessen your Olam Habah, I fear. So what we do is raise the chashivus of dedicated bnei Torah in the eyes of the rest of us, to encourage us to want to support their valuable endeavors. Hence, Adirei HaTorah!

Hey Joe. I’m just like you. If you live in Lakewood, unfortunately, you don’t get to feel the chashivus of being someone who is Koveah Ittim and as able to live a tohradike life without be overshadowed by the “Kollel Life” that people are claiming to live by. Come live wiht me in a out-of-town style community, where you can feel good about yourself and not have to compare yourself to anyone else. Lastly, “Im Ain Ani Mi Li” Meforshim expalin Don’t wait for other people or organizations to be machshiv you. Your biggest fan should be yourself and the encourgment should come from within. Its a shame that this is what the oilim hatorah needs to come to to give themselves self worth.

You know that you are doing the right thing.

You know that you are getting tremendous s’char for the learning you do.

Why do you need honor in this world? That’s what your jealous of?

Priorities, man. You’ll get your honor later.

No need for all the drama.

I lot of what you say is true, though would be hard to ignore the cynical tone of voice.
People should recognize how great they are and yet recognize the greatness of Torah all day learning.
Sorry for you, I hope you are able to recognize the beauty of your life and also that of people who are able to devote their time entirely to Torah

You actually follow exactly what it says in Shulchan Aruch (and mentioned throughout Chazal).
I would say that 80% of Lakewood feels the same way you do.
I was at the event, it was really beautiful, but there should have been some mention about the Shulchan Aruch yiden as yourself. Especially, when many of us were in Yeshivah with these “tomchim”, and many of them were not the cream of the crop, to say the least.
It was shocking hearing Rav Elya Chaim comparing this to “Mi Lashem Alei”, which was to call those away from avodei zorah, to those oiskim in parnasa, as they signed on their kesubah.
This is a long discussion, but stay strong.

C’mon, you are a true example what a Torah Yid should be . Be proud of yourself, you are a role model for Klal Yisroel.

The event was in no way meant to put anyone down. It was to celebrate a movement of bnei torah in yeshiva. The Siyum Hashas, for example, where many who partake have finished shas. If you didnt finish shas does that mean that in any way you are lesser? Of course not! It just means that they finished shas and they are celebrating, which by the way, many people join who haven’t finished. If you want create a movement of like minded individuals and celebrate it, go right ahead but you need some tangible, common agenda to be celebrating. Otherwise, just be content that you’re celebration of your hard work will be after 120 years.

The event is not so much to honor the members of the kollel as it is to celebrate Torah in general and raise money for BMG. In reality, everyone knows that the true hero’s of klal yisroel are the everyday people who despite not being in a kollel or yeshiva environment infuse their life with Torah, often bmesiras nefesh. There are many pieces in the sifrei musser and chsssidus which explain this. Keep it up!

I don’t know if you, the author, are being facetious or really feel like a “stupid Joe” but let me tell you that I spent many years in Kollel and then began working many many years ago. I WISH my learning schedule was as structured, disciplined, and significant as yours. Although I am no Rov, I assure you that the learning that you do both early in the morning and again in evening despite your full work schedule indeed makes you an Adir HaTorah. The purpose of the Adirei Torah event, as I understand it, is a way for BMG to portray and explain to the world that those sitting and learning are not “bentch kvetchers,” but instead, are warriors of Torah who uphold the entire world with their dedication and who deserve and need our support. That is NOT to say that someone who works but still is dedicated to taking his learning very seriously and b’kvius is not ALSO a member of the Adeirei Torah. Certainly you are part of that elite group, and your wife has an equal part in your learning for allowing the time you have at home to be spent toiling in the Beis Medrash. Ashrecha!

I am honoring you! I went through all my working years with many hours wasted on a far commute. THe rebeno shel olam honros you. Your wife honors. you. Your learning is ore chashuv in shamoyim even though it may be less time than a person learning all day, but in quality it is worth millions. I commend you.

Hate to burst anyone’s bubble but this right here is something to honor. A man working for parnasa and makes it his business to go learn and be Kovea Itim Latorah!! Wow!! Let’s remember it’s the Torah and those who learn it that we’re honoring. Any person who honestly does what they can and learns every available minute they’re able is treasured and most beloved by Hashem. It’s not about a subscription to the movement called Adirei Hatorah or any other qualification!

I’m also a working guy. Your learning a tremendous amount, and Your wife allows you to go back out after work to learn for that long… unbelievable! You’re a lucky man.

Let’s just be happy that we’re encouraging limud haTorah. If this event can increase the hasmada of yungerleit by even a fraction, then we are better from it. Our bracha is only enhanced by their limud haTorah. And maybe our learning can improve a little also from this.

Nobody will ever honor you. You are not connected and you don’t have boatloads of money (with which to buy kavod).

It could be you are sincere. In which case you are putting yourself down which is wrong. Don’t inflate yourself like a baal gayvah, but to call yourself a stupid person is like cutting yourself.

You might really mean to say that this event was all about the kollel guy and you also put in whatever you can…so be mature and realize that the ikkur is doing whatever you can do in your situation. The Gemorah says that a certain doctor was greater than Rava and Abaya. That’s because Hashem looks straight into the soul.

Dont let certain yeshivishkeit throw you. Look for what Hashem wants from you above all else. If you really truly are doing what Hashem wants, be it in Kollel or working, you are the best. RAMCHAL says this. If you are not really living ratzon Hashem, be it in kollel or working, you are deluding yourself. Vhameiyvin yavin al pee emes.

I feel your pain Reb Joe. 100%
Same here…
Let’s make our own Adirei Torah where we’ll pat each other on the back.
My consolation is that I know that Hashem sees us and His honor is real and lenetzach.
(only issue is that I cannot fake him…)

dear joe shmo all hashem wants from you is to fulfill your potential and if you do in the real world you will be celebrated will great accolades! unless your just a troll.

So next time your kids yeshiva asks you to be the guest of honor don’t turn it down.

I feel your pain.

Dear Stupid Joe,

There’s a time and place for everything- this event was about honoring people that learn full time. Working all day has an effect on a person, and not everyone is Zoche to learn all day. Life is hard for everyone, not just you- that has nothing to do with celebrating Torah and those that learn it.

Sincerely,

Yitzy

YOU MIGHT VERY POSSIBLY BE MORE IMPORTANT IN HASHEMS EYES THAN ADUREI HATORAH. IN SHAMAYIM YOU WILL BE THE TRUE ADIREI HATORAH…

I didnt catch the vibe in this letter, I believe because there were a number of conflicting emotions here.
Someone who spends (from your letter apparently) about 3 hours a day learning, isnt a “plain stupid Joe”!
Either way, I would highly recommend readin “ben Torah for life” by Rav Aharon Lopiansky!
With his guidance, and a personal Torah Mentor, you may be able to reach a level of Torah U’gedulah bemakom echad be”h.
And surely wont be just a “plain stupid Joe”!

i wish i was a kohen gadol…rav mordechai shwab said sof yomov “im living chaim brtzono”!

Dear R’ Joe (not plain and not stupid)

You are in fact a quintessential Adir HaTorah. Someone who is a Toraso Umnaso Yid, who only goes into work in order to feed your Family, and the rest of your day is given away to Torah. The problem is, no one needs to raise money to support you, so no need for the Kavod.
I happen to not be a big fan of the whole Adirei HaTorah movement, something just seems a little off about the whole thing.
Maybe its the patting ourselves on the back, or possibly the gaavah – The old “holier than though” type of thing, or maybe just the fact that were in Golus and we should just chill out a bit. Not everything has to be on the grandest scale possible. Not sure, I cant really put my finger on it…
In any case, I as a Yungerman truly believe that someone as dedicated to Torah as yourself can certainly have a higher degree of Mesiras Nefesh than many of today’s full-time Yungerleit (Myself included). In fact, I don’t consider myself to be Moser Nefesh to Learn in Kollel. B”H I have everything I need, and its the greatest Brachah and Zchus to be able to Learn full time with Harchavas Hadaas.

Hey , don’t sulk …. With your credentials you may actually become president of the United States….

Look at the gemoro that says about many yossis in the marketplace….

I am also one of those Joes.I guess it’s not quite the kavod and honor that I’m looking for rather
the “I’m holier than thou” attitude of many yeshivaleit is what truly bothers me. I am doing what I am supposed to do! I agreed, as stated in the Kesuva that I handed my Kallah under the Chuppa to support, feed and clothe her. In order to do that I must work as the pasuk states יגיע כפיך כי טוב לך. I am totally amazed that my wife feels proud that he husband wants to learn as much as he does and she supports it! I guess I would appreciate if the עולם הישיבות didn’t look down upon me. I am doing more than I can because I want to – I even feel drawn to – and because my אשת חיל is so supportive.

As a P.S., as a sidebar, are those Kollel wives also exalted and respected by their husbands for THEIR sacrifices?

If it hadn’t been for Kollel-Guy Joe
I’d have got kavod a long time ago
I go to shul daily, come rain or snow
Yet all kavod goes to Kolel-Guy Joe

I make a nice living, have a nice house
A true Aishes Chayil I have as my spouse
But am I happy? ‘Fraid that’s a “No”
‘Cause I’m so mekaneh Kollel-Guy Joe

Four hours daily, a seder I keep
But my missing kavod still makes me weep
Where is my dinner, where is my show?
I’m so mekaneh Kollel-Guy Joe

Every free minute I’m learning in shul
Or working or praying; my calendar’s full
I make it to shul when it’s forty below
But who gets the kavod? Kollel-Guy Joe

Everyone says that I shouldn’t whine
Appreciate that my life is just fine
I should stop singing sad songs of woe
Try to fargin that Kollel-Guy Joe

siyum hashas???? for the working men who learn daf yomi

In my opinion there was another reason for this asifa. In the last few years there were movements to diminish the importance of learning with iyun and to elevate those that learn bekius and learn daf hayomi and to make that the ideal. Obviously BMG disagrees and feels that the true Bnei Torah and koinei Torah are those that horev and sweat on a piece of Gemarah or on a Rashi or Tosafos and other Rishonim.
This was the theme in many of the speeches.

Was this a real letter or Matzah generated it to provoke comments?

Even though I don’t believe for a second this letter is legit, whoever wrote it is confused and most of the comments are missing the point. Everyone has their maalos and chisronos and everyone has their time to shine. When an event is made to solute and pay tribute to a certain group of people, it doesn’t put everyone else down, it just raises the spoken group higher than the others, so all this is unfounded.
Secondly in essence the event was paying tribute to torah and those that are Moser nefesh for it (albeit with an emphasis on the yungerleit, those that spend their whole day immersed in torah). Whether it’s instead of watching a ball game, playing video games, checking statuses, or yungerleit spending their whole day toiling in torah (and sacrificing certain luxurious). Everyone has his own challenges and when he overcomes them he is great! and he deserves to be celebrated! You can’t spend your life being jealous of other people. The only jealousy that is kosher is kinas sofrim but that’s only if it’s encouraging, if it’s discouraging and makes one feel bad about what they are doing, if a person feels he is substandard, below par due to his jealousy, it’s evidence that it’s the yetzer harah pushing the kinah and is treif!
There is definitely a need for encouragement for everyone that is working hard and doing what’s right. He should get encouragement from his wife, close family, friends and his rov. Whether there is a need for an event specific for this, is a question for gedolei hador to decide.

Dear editor@Matzav, I think you should do this “Matzav inbox thing” more often it really gets interactive and exciting and it gives you more veiws. just please make sure that no lashon hara and ect. comes out of it. thanks so much! חזק ואמץ!

I think this is the same letter writer who wrote about not clapping last week.

Joe
Your point is very well taken – all I can say is that given that your form of avodas hashem נהנה מיגיע כפיו doesn’t require raising millions of dollars nobody needs to come up with creative campaigns to honor you and your חברים – that doesn’t make you any less worthy of honor, on the contrary you should feel proud that you don’t need to come onto others for financial support ונא אל תצריכינו לא לידי מתנת בשר ודם

It is very clear from this letter what the writers intentions are and if you didn’t see it the first time read it again and you’ll see it. What his interest really is, is to put down all this pump given to the adeirem because of his guilty feeling of not being one of them and so he writes it a way that you’ll feel bad for him and subconsciously you’ll lose your feeling of being mechabed those who are learning full time.

Don’t let this person throw off by starting to listen to your feelings instead of your mind!!!!!!!!!!

Dear “NOT PLAIN” Joe

As many before me have mentioned you are not plain at all. You are a holy man and you need to know it. I strongly urge you that in addition to the famous sefer from Rav Aron Lopiansky Shlit”a you must also read a new sefer by the name of Yalkut Noam Hashem. I recently received this as a gift and it gave me an entirely new perspective on the value of my learning, my working, taking care of my family, every mitzva that I do, my being עומד בנסיון etc. It is a likut with hundredrs of pages of real targeted chizuk especially for baalei batim.

I do not know if it is available in stores but there is an email address in the sefer [email protected] that you can contact.

CHAZAK CHAZAK!!