Dear Editor,
I’ve been reading a lot about the fact that there’s an effort to “bring back” young couples to Flatbush, with millions of dollars being spent to do so. And I wonder why there is so much excitement over this.
These young couples are being brought back from Lakewood, NJ, where their children were growing up in a suburban community, to the city, which is a concrete jungle where children should not play outside if it can be helped.
In general, I don’t quite understand why there is a tendency of trying to hold on to areas that, for whatever reason, have passed their prime. Why do people invest money in countries like Lithuania, Poland and Hungary, rebuilding shuls and the like, just because we lived there once? The same with Flatbush. Stop throwing good money after bad, especially when it’s likely not sustainable. Let communities grow organically, and if we move around, so be it. It is golus, after all, isn’t it? Other than Eretz Yisroel, we don’t need to go back anywhere. They are merely stops in golus.
A Reader
So letter writer, because you love Lakewood, everyone has to?? Are you feeling threatened that Brooklyn will take over once again? I for one would live in Flatbush in a heartbeat if I could afford to! I miss the lifestyle there and wish my kids could experience it. Some things are harder there but I love it! There are pros and cons to any place, Lakewood included.
There are thousands of frum Yidden living in Flatbush today. It is in no way analogous to Poland, Lithuania, Hungary or wherever there is no one left. Those people can be impacted in a positive way by living with bnai Torah, seeing them on a daily basis, davening with them, shopping with them. The various out of town communities have seen great spiritual growth with the increase of Kollels in their communities. That some people in Flatbush are looking for some of that, rather than spiritual stagnation accompanied by growth in gashmiyus, is quite admirable.
Not sure your problem. The same ppl that are the money behind it are giving way more than 10% of their money to mosdos around the world. So if they want some yungeleit around them where they live in Brooklyn, you have an issue!?!? First give as much tzedakkah as them than open your mouth
This question seems to bother u very much. If only you had some kollel guys around to help you “tu adurich the sugya “
I would assume that those that are sponsoring this movement live in Flatbush and want kollel families in their neighborhood. Kollel families enhance the ruchniyos quality of life for the communities they live in, and this is worth money. I would imagine that these families (and many Flatbush families) cannot easily relocate.
Should we just let our multiple torah institutions just die out? Millions upon millions have been invested in our neighborhoods both in ruchniyus and gashmiyus. Unlike Brownsville and east Flatbush in the past
You raise some very important points. Questions which are likely on many caring, like-minded members of Klal Yisroel. If I may be so bold as to offer a perspective which my provide some answers.
To put it briefly, I would say as follows. While the city of Mir has long been destroyed and emptied of its Yeshivah and Yidden, There is still not only a Mir Yeshiva, but Mirrer Talmidim (new and old). While Telz was razed and the talmidim murdered, there is still a Yeshivas Telz and Telzers. The same can be said about Chevron, Slabodka, and Ponnovitch as well as Kletzk, Grodna, Radin, Baronovitch, Kaminetz, and others.
To explain further. What is the secret of the Mirrer talmid, the Telz, Chevron, and Slabodka talmid? It is their eternal connection to their Yeshivah, their Rebbeim, and the Torah and hashkofas ha’chaim which came and continues to come from them. So when the physical Yeshivah still exists, when their Roshei Yeshivah are still living and caring for their talmidim, how much more so must the they remain connected to them. EINI DAR ELEH BI’MKOM TORAH! That important CHaZa”L does not mean live in a place where there are many yeshivos and many minyanim to choose from. It certainly does not mean live in a place where I can have my quick Friday night minyan, my late Shabbos morning minyan with the great weekly kiddush, my Shabbos minchah-shalosh se’udos, catch up on all the news minyan, and my early zeman Motza’ai Shabbos minyan. THAT WILL NOT PROVIDE THE CHINUCH FOR OUR CHILDREN TEACHING THEM THE IMPORTANCE OF KIVIYUS MAKOM L’TEFILLAH, OF ASSEI LICHA RAV, ETC. Maybe we are witnessing the phenomena of 10, 11, 12, and 13 year old bochrim not coming to shul on Shabbos with their fathers. WHY SHOULD THEY? Their father jumps from minyan to minyan, simchah to simchah, Rav to Rav, why shouldn’t they do the same thing. Their father expresses that this davenning and/or derashah is too long or that this kiddush is too simple, or that here the Rav is too demanding, so why can’t they also have their opinions.
Flatbush remains the home of many of the first Yeshivos to be planted on the soil of this country. Mir, Torah vo’Daas, and Yeshivas Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin. They are not being sent out as their predecessors were in Europe. Should we cause the destruction of our own yeshivos for the sake of more restaurants, more parks, more grass, more parking, less meters? Are we really doing our children a service by uprooting them and denying them a connection to “their father’s Yeshivah” or “their father’s Rebbe or Rav?”
the golus in eretz Yisroel today, especially with their today’s government is a bigger golus than the golus in chutz laoretz. those living in eretz Yisroel however are not allowed by halacha to move away from eretz Yisroel. however hashem is a shomer Yisroel every second of the day. unfortunately or fortunately we are still given bechira
1) its Hashem, (show respect by capitalizing the H).
2) Bechira Chofshis is a blessing, and never “unfortunately”.
3) Do you really think that Golus in Eretz Yisroel is bigger? Do you hear yourself?? … If Hashem wanted us to choose America, it would have been in the Torah, notice not once is Lakewood mentioned there. A “less observant ” Jew in Tel Aviv is still on a higher level than
4) As refugees from antisemitic Europe, we went wherever we could (Ubacharta BaChayim) , wake up. You can choose Aliya just like Avraham Avinu. and not just for burial.(Doesnt that tell you something? )
4) I would still take Bennett and the horrible Israeli government over Biden etc.
5) Your paskening halacha is not quite accurate. Ask your posek….
In short, you are so mired in Chutz LaAretz you cant see the forest for the trees… WAKE UP.
The people who want to stay in Flatbush want the community to exist as long as they are there. It is their decision to give money for Torah in their neighborhood so that they are living in a makom Torah. You will not be asked to sponsor or donate to these Kollelim and it should not make a difference to anyone who is not looking for that. And by the way, by bringing some people back from Lakewood you are freeing up a few more houses in the very crowded ‘suburban’, allowing more people who want to move there.
best answer to a ridiculous letter.
Dear Reader (who believes in only supporting Lakewood’s kollelim)
The money being put into flatbush kollelim is the same money that would be used to support kollelim in Lakewood or anywhere else.
The reason money is being allocated for Flatbush kollelim is that there are many many more frum yidden in Brooklyn than in Lakewood. However, the kollel/balalbus ratio is much higher in Lakewood. Gvirim are not attempting to convince Frum yidden to live in one city over another, rather they are trying to get kollel families to live amongst the hamon am and influence them. Its a worthwhile investment.
As a side note, the other costs of living for a kollel family (besides rent/mortgage) are significantly lower in Flatbush than in Lakewood (only need 1 car, much less driving/gas, better gov assistance, lower tuition, less expensive groceries….) You do get a larger house in Lakewood for similar price, but larger = more expenses too. It is also true that kollel families in Flatbush usually rent, while Lakewood kollel families buy homes earlier.
Either way, the money spent accomplishes at least the same amount in terms of support of torah life, and in Flatbush it ALSO helps raise the local balebatim’s yiddeshkeit/torah.
Lastly, Flatbush still has many senior gedolei Rabbonim that share the rischa deoraysoh with the yungerleit as well!
What an idiot. I really shouldn’t give any credence to your asinine question. You’re a classic jealous kafoey tov. No one asked you for a penny, you bitter lowlife.
Maybe this letter writer is unaware that thousands of Frum Yidden still live in Flatbush. There are still many Yeshivos and Shuls throughout Flatbush/Midwood/Kensington. Chaim Berlin, Mir Yeshiva, Torah Vodaas, Chafeitz Chaim, Torah Temmima, Ateret Torah, YOB, BYA, Mesoras, Bnos Yisroel, Bais Yaakov D’rav Meir, Lev Bais Yaakov, etc… Not everyone like you decided on their own to abandon their Rav and Kehilla in Flatbush just inorder to get a home with bigger backyard and swimming pool in Ocean County NJ! “Oh, I want to be closer to my kids”. What a bunch of croc. The kids can’t travel to Brooklyn to visit their parents?! Did the mitzvah of Kibud Av va’eim disappear with the advent of Lakewood?! It doesn’t say anywhere in the Torah that one must live in Lakewood before he dies. Torah and avoda is B”H growing in Flatbush/Midwood. “Concrete jungle”??? Have you ever been to Flatbush/Midwood??? Most people do have grass and trees in front and in back of their homes. Not as big as Toms River perhaps, but there is greenery here as well. Flatbush is not Manhattan. Your lack of kavod hatorah and rudimentary understanding of the Mesorah of Yiddishkiet is appalling. Why don’t crawl back under the rock from which you’ve come?!
Is it possible to respond without being insulting ? Try it you may feel better about yourself.actually it’s the reverse.if you felt better about yourself you wouldnt have to respond with such anger and expressions
We spent millions on yeshiva buildings, mikvaos and other infrastructure, it is worth the investment on some Kollel fellows to keep the community alive.
It’s the first time that I’m writing to a Letter But this letter got me so upset. are good people that are putting in time and a lot of money to build up Flatbush. They bring in Kollelim. Ther is a very big community that lives here happy and doesn’t want to move to Lakewood. Foe many reasons. They are used all their life to it. They have children in in Mosdos they like. They have jobs without travelling two hours each way. The list goes on. Many of these elderly that moved are not happy. So what gives that person to write in such a way? We should all come to Lakewood .All so the children have more place to play. Don’t you see also how many problems there are in Lakewood? Problems that we don’t have here. I don’t want to start, because Lakewood has many Maalos too. But to talk like that? Looks to me this person is bitter about something. Maybe he is not happy in Lakewood. Surprised Matzav printed it
Did you think why these Kollel Avreichim moved Brooklyn? Nobody forced them. Maybe they were struggling with Parnoseh? Maybe they felt like a number in BMG like so many feel there? Maybe they know that in Brooklyn there is Chance to get a job as a rebbi which in Lakewood is only possible withe the right connection and money? I know many of these that moved here, They are all extremely happy, including their children without the big backyard in Lakewood
U.S. from brooklyn
I don’t think the pshat is that we are trying to preserve a place because yidden once lived there. There are thousands of Jews who live in Flatbush. The idea of bringing new yungelite to Flatbush is to be mechazik the yidden CURRENTLY there. What could be more beautiful? You say that it will be hard for kids to adjust from suburbia? Be”H there’s the famous havtacha when you move lishem shamayim to a place for Harbatzas Torah! Why different than moving to a far out town to be Marbitz Torah? Mi Kiamcha Yisroel!
Why do people invest money in countries like Lithuania, Poland and Hungary, rebuilding shuls and the like, just because we lived there once?
No comparison at all between those communities and Flatbush. If there were no Jews living in Flatush it would indeed make no sense to encourage kollel couples to live there. Being that it isn’t the case it is no different than any other effort to make an out of town kollel anywhere else.
All out of town kollelim cost lots of money and require living in communities that most kollel people would prefer Lakewood over. They still have been a tremendous success and accomplished a lot for both the communities and those who moved there.
Lakewood is not the Rural picturesque town of 20 years ago
Its not ‘holding onto’ areas. There are thousands of yidden there and no real Koach of Torah to inspire them.
A community without torah is a community lost. We cannot abandon those who stay to a torah wasteland.
I so much appreciate that you got to the point in a brief clear letter. So many of these types of letters too often appear as books or debate team notes with 17 lengthy reasons listed.
Very true. If anything, money should be invested in moving Jews to states which provide vouchers. Shuls should be built in Cleveland, etc.
And why stop at Flatbush? Perhaps we should pay yungeleit to move to the Lower East Side. Or to Lodz. Or Mainz. Or Fez. Or Sura and Pumpedisa. Or Cairo.
Bichlal, some Gedolim were against living in cities, living side-by-side with nochrim (Rav Michoel Ber Weismandel).
Living in Flatbush made sense because it is close to Wall Street. But now that most people work remotely, at least some days each week, it is difficult to understand what exactly is the point.
There are many frum yidden whose parnasah is dependent on there being a vibrant frum community in Flatbush. If there are askanim that are working to ensure that people don’t lose their parnasah and that shuls and makom torahs in Flatbush are not abandoned – kol hakavod to them.
@Reader- You would have a good point if not for the fact that you missed the very reason why there is a movement to bring Bnei Tora to Flatbush. Unlike your comparison with Lithuania and Poland, the goal with Flatbush is not “to preserve history”. The goal is to help foster the growth of a Makom Torah. As much as Flatbush is “dying out”, there is still a vibrant Jewish Community. With that in mind, the goal and vision of those behind the movement is, to take that vibrant Jewish Community and maintain and elevate it as a Makom Torah.
There is millions of dollars invested in the Flatbush mosdos. Of course the community must do everything possible to save these mosdos. We lost Crown Heights because there was minimal investment in yeshivas and Bais Yaakovs. We can’t afford to lose another heimishe community, but more important – we can’t afford to lose these gems that were built with such mesirus nefesh and Yiddish tzedakah money.
Totally off topic but I think a Litvish OOT style Kollel in Crown Heights would be a great idea with major Kiruv potential (v’hamavin yovin) Even though there will never be a Litivish community in Crown Heights again. Not even if that Kollel does have major success.
what is ” Litvish OOT style “
Its easy for you to say because you probably don’t live in Flatbush and therefore are not watching the neighborhood fall apart. Not everybody can or wants to move to Lakewood.
As much as I was disappointed to leave Brooklyn and move to the quaint midwest, years later I thank HKBH because BoroPark/Flatbush is a ZOO. It is mamesh DISGUSTING!
You’re a shakran and a baal motzie shem rah. You have the intelligence level of a doorknob.
The wealthy looking to spend their millions can certainly spend it as they wish, the tragedy is that no one has stepped to the plate to help get a Torah community with affordable housing in within driving distance NY/NJ off the ground. The 3.5 million yearly budget for the Flatbush Kollels would go a long way in a new and cheaper community.
Lakewood, Monsey and definitely NYC are beyond a Kollel couples budget-the housing crisis is real and will have an significant effect on young couples marriages, and the cost for parents to support the Lakewood lifestyle. If a solution is not available soon the entire BMG system as we know it will change. The “extra Kollel check” is going mostly into landlords pockets due to an increase of rent to the tune of 5-6k yearly in Lakewood in the next year.
as if Lakewood is still a “suburban community” Ha.
There is a wonderful neighborhood in Brooklyn, Georgetown/ Mill Basin, where you can buy a magnificent house for a fraction of the cost of Flatbush. There are many active Shules, and the vibe is one of our of town warmth and community. Check it out. you will like it.
What a sick person!!!
Do you even realize that the people supporting these kollelim are THE SAME ONES that support lakewood?!?! Almost no one in the frum world gives as much tzedaka as these people!
The money is in brooklyn whether you like it or not! The truth is will these people stay? No! The houses are way way too expensive
and they will not be able to afford it.
do you think the world is all about huge houses , Glatt Bite and Cookie Corner?
BTW most lakewooders arevBrookkyn people so it just shows that it is quite a chusuve place to live. True many have left but besides for the yungeliet most have left for gashmiyus reasons and ask people how they feel when their idea of a tranquil life is now replete with gut wrenching all consuming jealousy . All the craziness that is going on there is bh not happening here in Brooklyn. I wish we had the Torah that the yungeliet have there but st least i do not have to decide whether to plow through another Daf or a meat board on a nightly basis. So i wont have chayla’s strawberry short cake or Blommy’s devil cakes who cares
What a chutzpa !i bet you younare quite miserable watching your neighbor walk out of a Tesla every single night with a REAL Ferregamo belt .
Its ok plenty of places to buy fake Monclair and mooseKnuckle coats to fit your budget
Grab a bucket Of mike’s chicken wash it diwn with a parve rita’s drink and chill
Is it possible to respond without being insulting ? Try it you may feel better about yourself.actually it’s the reverse.if you felt better about yourself you wouldnt have to respond with such hostility ,anger ,and expressions
One last thing FLATBUSH HAS BILLIONS!! Not some young guys that work in nursing homes parading around like millionaires buying every conceivable stupidity for kiddush or shalosh seuda in their paper home.
These people supported Your mosdos their whole life now they are spending on themselves !!!! you dont like that?? Call them up they are free to do what they like with their money
Why get worked up over a letter writer who won’t even put his/her name to a letter stating their opinion?
The fact that the difference between Flatbush and Lakewood is down to a suburban community vs an urban jungle is tragic.
התורה בקרן זוית מונחת? אוי מה היה לנו
I have been Living in Flatbush for 62 years and I love Lakewood, but this post is idiotic and insulting to those who call Flatbush home
Come to Georgetown/Mill Basin, where a magnificent house will cost you half of what you would pay elsewhere. Where you will have your choice of Shules, where you will have activities for young and old. Where you have school buses picking up students going to Lev Bai’s Yakov, Torah Vodaas, Chaim Berlin and more. Where you will be minutes from the heart of Brooklyn.
I don’t live in Flatbush and have no intentions of ever moving there. Even so I see the opening of more kollelim there as a wonderful development. Yungerleit will get a chance to be Marbitz Torah and make a tangible difference in a community as opposed to remaining in Lakewood and being insufficiently noticed and appreciated due to the many others like them in Lakewood (B’H and kein yirbu!) Baaley Batim will get a chance to have more exposure to people who are Torasom Umnosam. Mosdos HaTorah will get a new infusion of young energy. These types of kollelim have a history of bringing out kochas in people and new ideas for Klal Yisroel. Etc. This is wonderful. Who could possibly criticize such a thing? You don’t feel this is for you? So don’t join and give Tzedoka elsewhere. But how can anyone criticize an effort at harbatzas and chizuk H’Torah ?
What nobody has mentioned is that in Lakewood right now there are very few decent apartments available, doctors for adults is very limited and no specialists and even most children in Lakewood are being seen by PA’s and not even doctors.
When it comes to jobs for woman very few exist that compare to what companies are paying in NY and therapy
Positions pay Bubkas.
Let’s not forget that until only recently
BMG was paying a kollel yungerman $350 a month. That is what they paid 25
Years ago. Thanks to Louie Sheiner and some other askonim he was able to raise it to $1000a month. Even that would not cover rent in any Lakewood basement apartment.
Kudos to the Flatbush askonim for putting their money into trying to make life easier for these kollel families while at the same time preserving the beautiful Flatbush kehilla.
In order to revitalize Flatbush and Midwood with its atmosphere a type of Personality would be needed
It is doubtful if these young couples, unless they’re willing to submit themselves, are the proper types