Dear Editor@Matzav,
With the upcoming Adirei Hatorah event this Sunday, I believe it is essential to discuss a matter that concerns the etiquette, hashkafah and atmosphere of such gatherings.
In recent years, I have noticed a growing trend at various Torah events where people have started clapping after speeches to express their appreciation or admiration.
This has to stop.
I would like to draw attention to the inappropriateness of this gesture at a Torah gathering of gedolim and bnei Torah, such as the one we are eagerly anticipating this Sunday.
Our gedolim and roshei yeshivos who address us at such events are not mere speakers. They are revered sources of Torah wisdom, knowledge, and guidance. I am reminded of the words of Rav Elchonon Wasserman in Kovetz Maamarim Cheilek Alef, where he openly discusses the distinction between our Torah events and “others.” He highlights that at our gatherings, we refrain from the clapping of hands – mechias kapayim – as it detracts from the solemnity and reverence that we strive to uphold.
Clapping is an expression commonly associated with joyous celebrations, sporting events, and other occasions where it is acceptable to applaud and acknowledge accomplishments or achievements.
It has no place at a maamad of kavod haTorah.
I never quite understood why there is clapping at the Siyum Hashas, but we can discuss that at a different time.
It is crucial that we create an avira (environment) that fosters a sense of awe and reverence, true kavod haTorah. Clapping takes away from that.
Please spread the word: Do not clap at the Adirei HaTorah event! It is not a baseball game!
I kindly urge attendees of the Adirei Hatorah event to join me in embracing this important detail. I sincerely hope that this letter will lead to a deeper appreciation of the nature of these events.
Yours sincerely,
A Ben Torah Who Doesn’t Clap
Is this a joke ???
Did I miss a joke? Seems you’re the joke. Brushing things off like that can only be from a place of not wanting to confront such a view and sincerely think about whether it’s in line with true hashkafas Hatorah or not. Assuming you care about that…
i understand if we shouldnt sing “cotton eye joe” or YMCA or “we are the champions”. but clapping??
Hmmm
It’s one persons view please what makes clapping not honoring the Torah people clap at a home run because of the adrenaline and excitement so after a godols speech halevai there would be the same excitement !!
I was there last year and indeed the clapping was distasteful. I don’t know if it deserves a headline on Matzav, but once that has happened I will agree with the letter.
Amazing how you “go ahead” take a little snippet from Rav Elchonon & turn it into a whole non profit org that’s attempting to save all of klal yisroel!! You don’t have to clap if you prefer not to. Just move on.
In any event just to counter your quote from Rav Elchonon here is a piece from the Ben Ish Chai… hatzlocha
Having trouble uploading the Hebrew. It’s in Ben ish chai shana A) parshas vzos habracha. Says that we have to be very careful especially when celebrating the Torah not to do it with light-headednes. Bring from a Medrash that Dovid used all his might doing so. What does it mean all his might? He would clap his hands one of other…
Worth a look here’s a link
https://www.sefaria.org/Ben_Ish_Hai?tab=contents
Didn’t they clap by krias yam suf?
What sort of wacky cult have I come across while searching the web for a new part for my computer?
Get a life
Did R’ Elchonon have music by the speaches? Did they dance by the speaches?
I don’t think so.
This is (unfortunately) AMERICA.
Wake up
I agree 100%. It bothers me greatly when I see blue strobing lights and fake smoke by the Dirshu events when they start playing music and a performer starts to sing. Is this yiras shomayim?! Must we be oiver uvichikoysayhem loh seiloechu?! Must we turn our Torah events into goyishe minhagim? Will the pleasure seekers leave if they don’t have the goyishe style events?!
I actually really appreciate the Dirshu events. It is much easier to stick to the “frum world” music and entertainment when is it so well produced.
This is one very kosher outlet that we have! Please don’t try to take it away from me!!
GO DIRSHU!!!!
“Go Dirshu!”?? That is how you cheer at a football game. Not how you address a Torah organization.
Either get rid of ALL your darchei akum, or decork and get along with the world.
Great. You like acting and behaving like a goy and enjoying their taanugim.
You mean WOKE UP. It may be America but we have to do what’s right. When my Rov gives a speech, usually once a month no one claps when he finishes. (I know I’ll get snide remarks on this one but it’s the truth does any clap after a rebbe says a dvar Torah at his Tish?)
I think this begs us to reconsider what kind of Maamadim we’re having for “kavod Hatorah”.
i have heard rav ovadia yosef complain of the same saying when hashem gave the torah did every one clap?!!
Although some good points are raised in this letter, the culture now is that when something strong and to the point is mentioned by a speaker, especially giving thanks to supporters at a dinner or any such event, the crowd does a spontaneous clapping to show that get feel the same way. It’s a normal reaction and in my opinion it does not make a P’gam in Kovod Hatorah.
Glad to see what you consider normal. Your flawed response fails to take into account the difference in nature of this event. Clapping by the thanks may be ok but all else is not. Glad to see how well you’ve adapted to todays culture. Keep up the good work
Today’s culture is getting the yungeleit $1000 a month or even more.
Also, your responses here have been very in your face and degrading. Learn how to respectfully engage with someone else who may have a different opinion.
Not sure if the $1000 justifies anything. Also, I’m sorry if you were offended by my remarks but the ones here making Leitzanus of a Torah hashkafa comment in Kavod Hatorah or lack thereof, need the in your face. Even if it’s not “politically correct or pleasing”. Major issue of our generation is not being able to speak out against things that go against our highest Torah values. The Erev Rav succeeded in crafting and worshipping the golden calf exactly because We the true holders and believers of Torah and its values didn’t speak out STRONGLY AND LOUDLY enough!
bh
this is the only thing on your head
all other problems have been solved
U fail to realize how the top of the pyramid is Torah and it’s Kavod. If that’s not in check, it trickles down to all areas of life
I would think clapping could be easily avoided if the band would be instructed to play a 2-minute uplifting song of appreciation such as ‘Ashreichem’ after each speech.
Uh….how about they just speak it out at the outset, especially if they can quote Reb Elchonon HYD.
We are clapping for the gevirim…
Let’s not kid ourselves, that’s the purpose of this whole event…
Looking forward for a beautiful event!
Clapping for expressions of kosher joy and excitement for avodas Hashem and for Gedolim has many sources in Torah. I will not list them all right now but you are very mistaken.
I don’t think a couple sources will hurt anyone. Let’s see them
Why don’t you get your own website and then you can troll others all day long.
I agree mostly
According to this line of reasoning, lets cut out the music, colored lights,dancing….
Get with the times.
Totally agree, Mr. Get with the times! Colored lights are totally unnecessary and have no place by this or any such event.
Amein! This lighting and music has to end. Hiskatnu hadoros.
Let’s then all do fist pumps!
This is normal human behavior/gesture of endearment and appreciation! Let’s let the inner the feelings of people show their gratitude to Hashem in a way that humans do! We’re not קלאפען המן – we’re clapping our inner emotion.
Glad you’re in touch with your emotions. Very healthy. Your therapist would be proud. Definitely not what should be guiding your hashkafas Hatorah tho…yikes
You might think.of polishing your mode of responding
You need alot of help, try therapy maybe it ease some of your stress and pain.
Had tickets and plans to go and participate.
Thanks to this article ( posted here on matzav.com ) , I am backing out.
While everyone is going to be there participating and not-clapping, I will choose to sit and learn and help try to hold up the world.
Alteh Bucher
If you are for real, Ashrecha Vtov Loch!! May many follow in your example! Hatzlacha!!
If a speaker constructs his speech in such a way that he wants to bring the crowd to applaud and the crowd doesn’t it’s the biggest malbin pnei chaveiro shayach
Our primary focus as a bnei Torah is to be concerned for the kavod chaveiro
Inspiring the Kehilla to increase Torah learning, Keeping the Mitzvot faithfully, increading Chessed and Maasim Tovim , giving Tzedaka and being an all around Mensch is all the appreciation any Rav desires.
Lets face it we have began following the mores of our non Jewish neighbors. There are many other things we do like decorating a Chassan and Kallahs car/ Birthday candles/ Tooth fairy, etc, May Hashem bring quickly the Moshiach so we find it true Torah guidance.
Phew. Was nervous he’d take issue with my foam finger that’s says “#1 Torah Giants.”
But maybe I’ll hold off on trying to start The Wave at this year’s celebration…
Ah! The wave yes. That should be the highlight of this years event
When you’re one of the great people that are honored to speak, then you’ll make your demands, sir
No demands made here. Just sharing some Hashkafas Hatorah
I think everyone SHOULD clap.
To show how much they love torah.
Stamp feet!
Clap hands!
Go wild!
THIS is true Torah.
Sounds like an uncle Moishy song. Very appropriate
the gedolim willo decide what is appropriate at this event -not you or anyone else
and so far they are o.k. with it!!
not sure I would write the letter, but I agree with the letter writer.
I was once at a eight grade graduation shabbton and was bothered by the fact that the boys were clapping for the their rebbeim and menahalim. I understood that it was coming from a very good place, but, at the same time, I felt that there is greater dignity in standing quietly for the speaker before and after the speech, rather than clapping. When I spoke, I explained to the boys difference between someone getting a “hole in one” and someone transmitting divrei Torah, especially a rebbe and most certainly the gedolim at the Adire Hatorah event.
I understand that some people can’t understand why showing appreciation through clapping is bad. In that case, please ask a Torah personality that you trust. I find it hard to believe that anyone would say that clapping is appropriate..
The letter wrter has a point. I’m trying to honestly understand the point of these events. The dirshu event was a beautiful concert. Do roshei yeshiva spend time going to concerts?
If this would be in BMG them yes, nobody would clap.
They commercialized their event by advertising all over and pushing all Men and boys to go so yes there will be clapping.
My son has been spending hours trying to get a ticket because all the bochurim are going.
If you make it into an event, it will be an event.
Not sure your point. You speak to the hype and FOMO that they created for this event. That doesn’t address or justify anything
BTW in the famous clip of Rav Yoshe Ber Zatza”l speaking about Rav Aharon Kotler Zatza”l he asks the oilem to get up and give a standing ovation to the great gadol (whie Rav Aharon is pulling his jacket and saying “nisht emes”).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drIHuygZ2C4
Follow the link, minute 27.
I will say that Reb Ahron himself wouldn’t have agreed that that’s the proper way to give Kavod Hatorah. But this case and application does make me wonder. Not common for sure
He did not ask them to give a standing ovation. He asked him to stand up and give Kovod.
I applaud the letter writer.
Oops.
This letter was written by a soeni Torah
A person who hates Torah and its learners who is caking his attempt to show “look how everyone just there dazed” in silly empty platitudes.
Please Rabosai dont listen to him
Clap for Torah. Enthuiasticly
Show your support and approval of those who lear n Torah
Dont listen to the Satan who wrote this
If you don’t think it’s appropriate to clap, then you could refrain from clapping ! Stop and look in the mirror . who are you? Where are you going? What are you doing? Is your one goal in life just to tell people what to do? I feel for you that you are so busy with this there are way worse things going on if you want to tell people what to do.
Lakewooder: He asked that everyone stand up for Rav Aharon. He never asked anyone to clap.
Wow, I guess there’s a common denominator for the people who write in letters to matzav that is that they need a life .
You’re so concerned that people are going to clap? Maybe if the people wouldn’t speak so long they would be no reason to clap when they are finally done? If you knew anything about these types of venues, you would know that sound carries very well. It’s very possible that you’re not going to get 20,000 people clapping (don’t believe the numbers hype that you hear, that 25,000 people will be there. It’s impossible to fill that place with 25,000 people!) you might only get a thousand people or 2,000 people but it’s going to sound like a lot more.
I have a better idea, how about not making it in sporting a sports arena? They should make it in the gym of BMG. Oh, that’s right they don’t have one.
You make a great point. And kind of missed mine. The point is that these are clapping events which not the clapping and not such an event is appropriate for giving Kavod Hatorah or a Maamid Har Sinai like they’re making it to be (or Hadar Kibluha like after nes Purim)…..can’t even believe it. Such a Leitzanus
Agree with the Post. It diminishes the atmosphere of
the event
36 comments and no one mentioned the irony that the letter writer who claims to be a baal madreiga of such a high level as “A Ben Torah Who Doesn’t Clap” is posting his machaah ON THE INTERNET !!!
If you are truly concerned about Kavod Hatorah and its Talmidei Chachomim, what are you doing online posting on news sites? Which Rosh yeshiva would be ok with that ?????
I just saw a bumper sticker on back of a car, it read, I did not clap at the adireiI torah event
Robotization of humans is crossing a red line. Applause is emotional – stop the pomposity !!
These instructions and the ensuing debate in comments precisely reflect what turns me off disinteresting my participation.
This is drowning the internet.
I am certain if clapping was to be asked not, it would.
Think golden if you just let a scene develop. Maybe Hashem has his fit day.
LOL
If we clap at a baseball game to show our admiration, kal v’chomer we should cl
But you’re not ashamed to be living in chutz la’aretz – as if you and all the rest have no G-d?
It also bothers me when people clap at frum events. Not because there’s anything wrong with it, but because it’s not what I became accustomed to. My mind (and those of many others, I believe) screams that it’s seeing something strange.
In reality, clapping is simply acknowledging the speaker and expressing agreement. It is not like a sporting event, at which the applause is accompanied by drunken shouting and wild whistling. If done appropriately, it is a dignified show of kavod.
P.S. Yes, get rid of the lights and sing normally. Music at a Torah gathering should be music, not a concert.
Good points. This should put a rap on this article. Thank you everyone for your comments.