Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, rosh yeshiva of Yeshiva Gedolah Zichron Moshe of South Fallsburg, addressed the issue of shidduchim on Thursday at the Agudas Yisroel Convention, stating that that young men should be encouraged to enter shidduchim earlier.
The words of the rosh yeshiva were related during a panel discussion on the shidduch crisis. The rosh yeshiva said: “This could be the biggest tragedy facing Klal Yisroel today.”
The panel also featured Lakewood shadchan R’ Shlomo Lewenstein, and Dr. Yossi Shafier.
Rabbi Lewenstein said that he knows families who have good daughters who wait for months just to get a date. He added that many 21-year-old girls who are not picky have never gone of a date. On the other hand, almost all boys date non-stop.
The virtual panel was moderated by Mr. Gershon Barnett, who is heavily involved in the shidduch crisis.
Barnett explained that the age gap is due to population growth, combined with the fact that boys start shidduchim at around age 22, while girls start at age 19; thus, there are hundreds of girls waiting for shidduchim.
Rav Wachtfogel said that we cannot say that Hashem “will solve the problem without us intervening.”
Rav Wachtfogel insisted that the solution was for boys to get married at least one year earlier than the current trend. He added that the boys should go to learn in Eretz Yisroel one year earlier than they do today, or that they should skip the year in Eretz Yisroel and learn there after they get married.
The rosh yeshiva said that there is no reason why boys should not be mature enough to get married, saying that Israeli boys get married earlier. “They are not born older than American boys,” said the rosh yeshiva. “They know that after they get married, they will mature faster.”
Barnett said that he also discussed the issue with Rav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, rosh yeshiva of Beth Medrash Govoha in Lakewood, who urged him to discuss the issue with gedolim and ask if age 21 is too young for a shidduch. Barnett also said that “Rav Chaim Kanievsky pulled out a Rambam and said that it was definitely acceptable.”
Rav Wachtffogel noted that even girls who end up getting married suffer terribly for having had to wait so long – “they go through ten years of gehennom.”
Finally, the rosh yeshiva said that if other yeshivos agreed to “reorganize the process,” he would happily send the boys from his yeshiva to Eretz Yisroel one year earlier.
{Matzav.com}
Create Kollelim that will pay young married men respectable stipends.
you gonna fund it?
This subject has been out there in magazines and loud newspaper adds for 15 years now.
Did people embrace this? Did families of boys girls collectively push their sons to marry at 21 so their daughters all have a chance?
What did and didn’t change in the last 15 years?
Why wasn’t the so called age gap an issue in previous generations?
because the world of yesterday was different than today? do you think in Europe it was the standard for young adult men to sit and learn? it was reserved for the select few. and shidduchim were usually also redt between relatives and close families.
STOP THE DAVENING-START THE TALKING
There are Mosdos asking for donations geared especially to those who are desperate to find Shidduchim for themselves or for their loved ones.
These organizations offer to have Gedolim, Rebbes, Roshei Yeshivos, Rabonim, Kabbalists, etc. travel to Mekomos Hakdoshim and daven for a Zivug on behalf of those who send in money.
It is a pathetic way of raising money by taking advantage of people who are in a desperate situation.
We have a situation today where for every 120 nineteen-year-old girls there are only 100 twenty-three-year-old boys to go around.
It would be pointless to daven that all girls should get married since there are simply not enough 23-year-old boys to marry all the 19-year-old girls.
This Tefillah would be asking for the impossible and might be considered a תפילת שוא.
HOW TO SOLVE THE SHIDDUCH CRISIS?
The number one solution to the shidduch crisis is to narrow the age gap between the boys and girls getting married. Davening for this to happen on its own is futile; it is incumbent on us to take the measures to make it happen. The problem is man-made and can be corrected by man בעזהי”ת. It’s up to us; we can and should change the trend of having such a wide age gap between the genders.
Perhaps, the time has come of מה תצעק אלי– ויסעו. We must make a move to correct the problem. We cannot sweep the problem under the rug, nor pretend to solve it with Davening gimmicks.
What this article fails to point out, is that at this same Agudah convention, Rabbi Elefant and Rabbi Lopiansky Shlita, in a different question/answer session were asked the same question and they disagreed that the shidduch system has to be changed. Rabbi Elefant had a good line: if you can’t get bachurim to get a kosher filter on their phone how can you expect to change the whole system and have bachurim start dating younger. It’s not realistic and it will never be like the Chassidishe derech. Not every bachur is mature enough to get married at 20. The shidduch system in the Litvishe velt generally works. There are always yotzei min hakllal. You can listen for yourself on the Agudah archives of the convention which just ended this morning.
You are misquoting Rabbi Elephant! He said that to get boys to get married at AGE 18, is not possible. He never address them getting married at 21. Be careful when you quote someone. You can watch the video on Torahanytime here: https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=169114
if you can’t get bachurim to get a kosher filter on their phone how can you expect to change the whole system and have bachurim start dating younger.
Perhaps Rabbis lopiankski and elefant deal with different bochurim than Rav Elya Ber does
perhaps. or then theres the unknown….
The only way to narrow the age gap is by facilitating and encouraging the boys to start dating at a younger age. This can be accomplished if the Roshei Yeshivos are on board and implement policies such as:
1. The American Roshei Yeshivos should send away their talmidim to Eretz Yisroel at age 20, and not allow them to stick around past that age.
2. The Israeli Roshei Yeshivos should not accept Bachurim over the age of 20.
3. Abolish the “freezer” rule.
Having the Bachurim go to learn in Eretz Yisroel at an earlier age means they will return to America at an earlier age, thus starting Shidduchim earlier and thereby narrowing the age gap.
These might be drastic measures, but we can all agree that the severe tragedy of having girls never get married, remaining Agunos for the rest of their lives, surely requires drastic measures. Now is the time of ‘עת לעשות וגו
Not realistic bichlal. You can’t just turn a switch and have every litvish family’s mindset change like that. It doesn’t work that way. You can start though. It will take yeoman’s effort to convince a few hundred thousand charedie to all change their mindset simultaneously. Fair or not, I find that the well connected/wealthy/rabbanush/yichusdik families don’t have a problem with shidduchim. Even if you’re from a poor family, if the boy is a mitzuyan, he’ll be fine. It’s the bainonim that have the struggles, my own children included.
Shemiras Shabbos, Chadorim, Yeshivos Cholov Yisrael, etc. in America would not have happened If they were to have followed the naysayers who held “Not realistic bichlal”
“aguna” is something else
People could learn the words of the גמרא which states משום עיגונא אקילו ביה רבנן , over and over again and still subscribe to a system that commits בנות ישראל to being עגונות – in some cases for their entire lives רח”ל
response to Anonymous. If you do not fund it do not tell other people to learn after they are married
Rav Ahron paid his Kollel yungerleit enough money after the wedding a stipend that was sufficient to pay rent and have 30 percent left over.
Because there were10 Kollel yungerleit in America at the time
I totally intend to ask my son (a Mitzuyan & is really Michabed me) to marry the same age girl when he starts Biezras Has-hem.
That’s the first thing we need to do.
True, if we all do that, it can cause an imbalance with the 20 year old girls. But it’s definitely a proper Hishtadlus.
No one is saying that we have an absolute solution, that once done, will fix it all. But we need to try.
Chessed is a Siman of a Yid.
Changing the system will take a long time, & by then we’ll accumulate many Agunos.
We need to start now. Help & encourage your son to date girls his age.
I know it’s hard, because good boys get Redd top girls & Gevirish girls & it’s hard to hold back. But we owe it as an Achrayus to our sisters that are truly suffering.
We just had 37 & 27 year old single girls for Shabbos. It is unfathomable.
You & I can make a difference.
Don’t look to the next person. We should all look at ourselves.
Those who own the “top commodity” are the ones that can influence real change.
Wishing everyone tremendous Bracha & Mazol in Shidduchim for themselves & their children!
Good point. Most of the older singles, became that way, BECAUSE THEY OR THEIR PARENTS WERE TOO PICKY!!! Sorry. These are the facts.
Hasidim have a “shidduch crisis” too.
Don’t fall into the trap of believing that all is fine and dandy on their side.
Shemiras Shabbos, Chadorim, Yeshivos Cholov Yisrael, etc. in America would not have happened If they were to have followed the naysayers who held “Not realistic bichlal”
Great. So sacrifice YOUR children on the holy grail of age-gap. Marry off your kids at 17-18. Don’t come crying when they get divorced.
and kollelim and baalei teshuva
I Israel, they marry younger because the Kollelim are more affordable since a yungerman has a paid out apt. and his wife has a job. That’s what they live on besides a respectable stipend from the kollel. The apt. buying is an issue they struggle with. But here we can make it possible if the kollelim pay more. Going to ארץ ישראך earlier is also part of the solution.
take the support for 10 year factor out
you will solve most of the crisis
I agree with “Emailimbatorah” that we should send bochurim to Israel at a younger age. One of maalos of E”Y, is it allows the bochurim to mature in a setting away from America with less distractions. This will be a solution to those who say the bochurim are not mature enough. It’s only because the system drags out their immaturity and allows them to be irresponsible for longer. Or the option should be after 3rd year Beis Medrash, bochurim should go straight to Lakewood or the Yeshiva of their choice that accommodates bachurim in the parsha. Make this the new norm and and the more people accept this, it will continue to pick up. Lastly, the askonim should collaborate to give incentives for the bochurim or/and the shadchanim when when a boy gets engaged when he’s 21
“It’s only because the system drags out their immaturity and allows them to be irresponsible for longer. ”
rav elya ber basically said that
For this topic to be addressed comprehensively what i feel it requires is probably a good few hours of open back and forth of people that have worked with shidduchim for many years..sadly i feel everything else is just a great disservice.. Until that happens i dont feel this topic is worth the paper its printed on on or the microphone electricity thats generated. Sad to see agenda driven people make believe that they are not agenda driven..
Please give me a wife, and I shall be happy to comply & get married already tomorrow & comply with your פסק
response to MT
Today there is massive government funding that Rav Ahron did not receive.
Second, the frum community is wealthier and more numerous than they were 65 years ago.
and yet their is not enough funding. so maybe the frum community isn’t as wealthy as you think. oh and by the way years ago people with money didn’t spend like today so it wasn’t easy to spot who was really wealthy.
As a hard-working Shver who shtiztes his son-law, I do not like the idea of Shvers having to shtizt someone a year earlier when they get married a year earlier. Personally, I would prefer if all bachurim got married at age 30. And I’m sure most Shvers would agree with me.
and your 20 old daughter will marry whom?
“Get married for the wrong reasons and you’ll get divorced for the right reasons”
These experts in their ivory tower better be careful what they ask for.
The only way to do it in any sense is to eat better than a dope.
Hashem pays heed.
Single older Bochur who contrary to what is reported does not say no so. I’m not ready to buy the line that it’s all a boys problem if meshum eguna your worried about then settle