Harav Menashe Klein Denounces Messianics Within Chabad

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rav-menashe-kleinThe Ungvarer Rov, Harav Menashe Klein shlit”a, has denounced the messianic group within Chabad in a new sefer. In his 17th volume of Mishnah Halachos, Harav Klein states that people who believe that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rav Menachem Mendel Schneerson, is still alive, as “apikorsim.”The head of the Ungar kehillah Yeshiva Bais Shearim in Boro Park, Brooklyn, Harav Klein knew the Lubavitcher Rebbe before he assumed leadership of the Lubavitch movement.

“This sect of crazies, which falsify the Torah and our sages’ words, to say the Moshiach is dead but is really alive… these are things against our holy Torah,” says Harav Klein, echoing the sentiments and shitos of numerous gedolei Torah v’yirah of the last decades.

Harav Klein’s words are an answer to a messianic booklet, which is not identified by name.

Harav Klein continues to write: “Whoever can, should as soon as possible, silence and stop the proclamations after or before the prayers ‘Yechi… King Moshiach’ which is a disgrace to the Rebbe of blessed memory.”

Harav Klein concludes with a plea: “My intentions are holy – not to destroy the big building the Rebbe of blessed memory built for over 50 years.. may he be an advocate for us and for all the Jewish people, especially his students and chassidim.”

{COLlive.com with Dovid Bernstein of Matzav.com Newscenter}

32 COMMENTS

  1. Bless Harav Menashe Klein!!!!!!!! He is seems to be the only person continuing the work which Maran Shach started! Unfortunately few seem to understand the peril that Chabad faces and the detrimental damage meshichistis do to Klal Israel.

  2. The messianic sect of Chabad, does have a good case to present that the Rebbe [Shlit”a-Zt”L] shared their views.

  3. I’m confused… according to the report:

    Harav Klein states that people who believe that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rav Menachem Mendel Schneerson, is still alive, as “apikorsim.”

    Why would believing a dead person is alive make one an apikorus? It would make him wrong, of course, but being wrong about a fact does not make one an apikorus.

    I could hear the argument that believing Moshiach is dead (and will rise from the dead to fulfill his mission) makes one an apikorus — but there is no ikkur emunah, to my understanding, to believing that R. Schneerson is dead.

    The Wolf

  4. Whether or not the Rebbe shared the views of the messianic sect of Chabad is irrelevant.

    The Rebbe passed away, years ago.
    He is ZT”L (dead), NOT Shlita (alive).

    The meshichists and elohists are spreading a false Hashkafa.

    Bless HaRav Klein, Shlita, for spreading the truth.

  5. I hate to break it to you guys, but R Klein is on record as saying that there is nothing wrong with believing that the L Rebbe is still Moshiach. He made a public statement to that effect shortly after the LR’s passing, and nothing can change that.

  6. Nachshon, you seem to know more than Rav Klein shlita. Why bad mouth a Tzadik that is no longer with us? What right do you have to make judgements against a Torah giant and make your own speculation? You have an obligation to ask for forgiveness other wise judgement day awaits you and it won’t be pretty. You are playing with fire.

  7. But no one is really doing anything to silence and stop these crazies. Messianics serve as rabbonim, shoctim, mohellim, chazzanim, aidim, mashgichim, etc. People traveling eat and/or stay in Chabad Houses run by messianics.

    The only effective way to put a stop to this madness is to exclude them from any and all participation in the Orthodox world until they renounce their messianic views.

  8. How come they can’t prove that the rebbe was a ben achar ben (from Shlomo ha melech)descendant of Dovid HaMelech?
    If he’s not dead, who’s buried in the ohel and why do they go there to be mispallel at the kever?
    There’s nothing wrong with Chabad, except the meshichists. Chabad does wonderful work bringing Yiddishkeit to the far flung corners of the world. It’s too bad that the meshichist nitwits give the rest of Chabad a bad name.

  9. Notice with what neimus Rav Klein states:

    “My intentions are holy – not to destroy the big building the Rebbe of blessed memory built for over 50 years.. may he be an advocate for us and for all the Jewish people, especially his students and chassidim.”

    You can see from his words the respect that he has for the Lubavitcher Rebbe and the anguish that he feels for the Rebbe’s soul and avodas hakodesh QUITE different from what others have written and said.

  10. “I hate to break it to you guys, but R Klein is on record as saying that there is nothing wrong with believing that the L Rebbe is still Moshiach. He made a public statement to that effect shortly after the LR’s passing, and nothing can change that.”

    To Millhouse,

    Can you give a source for the above comment. It would be interesting to know. Rav Aaron Soloveichik, ztl, make the same comment after the Rebbe passed away: Check out the following link: http://www.yiddishkeit.org/Default_YK.asp?

  11. It’s possible that the reason this is called an aveirah is either because this is the same thing that the early Christians believed, or because ti is to some extent, albeit little, making an avodah zarah, R”L, of a great tzaddik.

  12. from kfar chabad and rabbi hershbrung dont agree to his psak and rabbi aron solivaitchik

    there are meny robonim in klall yisroel

  13. It states in the Gemora: Rav states:

    “If Moshiach will come from the living, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh (i.e.Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi), if he comes from the dead, it will be Daniel (the Prophet)…”

    What is shocking is Rashi’s commentary on this:

    This means, that if Moshiach were to come from those who are living now, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh…but if (Moshiach) is to come from those who have died already, it will be ‘Daniel Ish Chamudos’…”

    This is proof that Moshiach can come from the dead. There are other sources: Check out the following website: http://www.moshiachfacts.com/index.php?page=qaforum&chapter=3&section=2

  14. The letter from which R’ Ahron Solevetchik supposedly said it is possible for the Rebbe to be Moshiach was forced by someone else for him to sign At the time he was aged and weak, and he retracted several weeks later when he realized what he had signed. See David Berger’s book for details.

  15. No 17.
    Why not then stick with the Hava amina of the Gemorah that it is in fact Danie?. Did you make a survey in shomayim as to the accomplishments of all the Tzadikim?
    Who can judge which Tzadik will be Moshiach min hameisim? Since for 200o years Yidden have not had this Emunah as the Rebbe often quoted Minhag Yisroel Torah Hih, we can deduce that this Hava aminah in the Gemorah does not translate into maaseh avos siman labonim. However, the problem is not one of Halacha, but rather Gaavah, when people can’t say that they are wrong, they use any excuse to say that they are tight.

  16. the reason why jc was not moshiach has nothing to do with the fact that he died R”l whoever thinks so is an apikores.

    geuss what the concept of moshiach sounds R”L xristan,

    its high time that people start learning about the subject with earnst not just bubeh facts.

    my great uncle was the rosh yeshiva in chachmei lublin and he said that people have no clue about the subject and it wasnt thorogh ly dealt with as to keep away from the yushkeh beliefs, but i think that since today people yiden have access to the internet with all types of info about the goyishe beliefs we ought to get are facts streight and not say bogus dinim which have no place in torah,

    as for the l”r zt”l maybe he was or not but if they want to believe so, zol zein, i just think that they are not doing any good pr for themselvs.

    gershon from Montreal

  17. To Haaretz,

    That is not true. I spoke to the people who were there when the Rav signed it.

    Berger has always been a Chabad hater. I would not believe one word he says.

  18. “However, the problem is not one of Halacha, but rather Gaavah, when people can’t say that they are wrong, they use any excuse to say that they are tight.”

    I disagree. There is no Gaavah here. Farkeirht, by making this statement, you are saying that the Torah is wrong. That is gaavah.

  19. “That’s not true. I spoke to the people who were there when he signed it.”

    Uh…..Duh. These were the very people who mislead the Rav into signing it…

  20. As a Lubavitcher who lives in Crown Heights, I am pleased with HoRav Unger’s psak, which is quite tactful. Berger is not a rov, can not issue a psak, and, although I agree with much of what he says, it seems to me that he wants to condemn all Lubavitchers for the actions of some. Hopefully, HoRav Unger’s, as a Chasidisher Rov, and not a hater of Lubavitchers, will have the desired effect

  21. The Rambam clearly states, that if a person dies – that is the proof that he is NOT Moshiach!
    Shlomo Carlbach, Elvis Presley, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe are gone! Except it! It’s time to grow up! move on with your lives!

  22. Shabsey: How dare someone like you even use a rishon’s name to bolster your hate-filled agenda. Unlike others here who have legitimate and respectful arguments you compare a tzaddik and gaon olam of the previous dor to minuvalim and goyim.

    And as for the RaMBaM’s shita itself, I have yet to see members of your sect hold of him on hashkafa related matters when it isn’t to promote sinas chinam.

  23. I don’t suppose that these facts will make a difference on whether or not Moshiach can come frrom the dead; obviously Rabbi Menashe Klein must have known them and nonetheless saw fit to reject them; for those inclined to search for the truth, here goes:
    From Arba Mei’os Shekel Kesef(page 68) …written by Rabbi Chaim Vital, pupil of the Arizal….

    “Just as we find that Moshe Rabbeinu [Moses] ascended to Heaven, body and soul, and remained there for 40 days…similary, Moshiach [King Messiah] will, through the help of the Almighty, merit to attain that lofty soul. He will then realize that he is in fact Moshiach [King Messiah] , although no one else wil be aware of this. This is the secret to which the Zohar alludes, ‘Moshiach [King Messiah] will be revealed, yet no one will perceive him’.

    “Shortly afterwards Moshiach [King Messiah] will be hidden away, body and soul, in that Divine pillar [the spiritual incubation of this sublime soul], as previously explained…

    “Moshiach [King Messiah] will thereupon rise up to Heaven just as Moshe [Moses] ascended to the firmament, and will subsequently [return and] be revealed completely for all to see. The entire Jewish people will then perceive him and flock towards him.”

    [See also Sha’ar Hagilgulim chapter 13]

    —————————————
    Can the
    Moshiach [King Messiah] come from the dead?

    The answer is surprisingly enough, a resounding yes!
    In the second to the last Rashi (the foremost explainer of the scripture and the Talmud, printed in every text) in the book of Daniel, (12:12) he writes: “The Moshiach [King Messiah] will reveal himself and then be concealed…. and then revealed once more, and so it says in the Midrash on Ruth and in the poems of Rabbi Eliezer HaKalir.”
    So it states in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 98b), “If the Moshiach [King Messiah] comes from the dead he will be someone like Daniel.” Rashi there explains this to mean exactly what it says; Moshiach [King Messiah] can come from the dead.

    The great and holy scholar, Rabbi Chiam Midini, in his work Sdei Chemed (Peyas HaSadeh, Maareches “Alef”, os Eyin), elaborates on this, and connects this Talmudic statement to an earlier one (ibid 98a) referring to the prophecy of Daniel: “If the generation is fortunate the Moshiach [King Messiah] will come from the dead, i.e. on “clouds of heaven,” and then everyone will accept him with no reservations. But if not he will come from the living, i.e. riding on a donkey (lit. “chamor”, which also means “physical” in Hebrew)”.
    And so agrees the Holy Chacham Yosef Chiam (The Ben Ish Chai) in his commentary on Sanhedren 98 in his book “Ben Yhoyada”, that Moshiach [King Messiah] can come from the dead. (he also explains the topic there of Moshiach ben Yosef and how he can also be Moshiach)
    The Zohar in Parshat Balak (pg. 203b) states that the Moshiach [King Messiah] will have to “die”‘ i.e. go to a higher spiritual level, and return again with the new level he has attained.

    In the 13th. chapter of Shaar Hagilgulim (near the end) it states that after the Moshiach [King Messiah] arrives, he will be hidden in heaven like Moshe [Moses] was hidden on Mount Siani, and then he will appear again.

    Finally the Abarbanel states in his book “Yeshuot Moshicho” (Part 2, topic 2, chapter 1) that “the Moshiach [King Messiah] will have to die in order to purify the generation…and he will wait in a spiritual state in ‘heaven’ until it he rises from the dead, as it says in the Talmud Sanhedrin (98b).

    All the above were sources from several hundred years ago supporting the idea that Moshiach CAN come from the dead.

    Sources List:-

    1) Sanhedrin 98b (see Rashi on this)
    2) S’dei Chemed vo;.7, page 2984
    3) Derech Eretz Zuta (end of chapter 11)
    4) Yeshuos Meshicho (page 104)
    5) Midrash Eichah Rabbah (1:51)
    6) Yefeh Anaf (commentary on Midrash Eichah Rabbah, ibid)
    7) Arba Mei’os Shekel Kesef (p.68 by Rabbi Chaim Vital , pupil of the Arizal)
    8) Meori Tzion (chapter 97)
    9) Zohar (Balak, 203b)
    10) Maamarim of the Alter Rebbe (5568 page 283)
    11) Second to last Rashi on Daniel 12:12
    12) The Ben Ish Chai in his commentary on Sanhedren 98 in his book “Ben Yhoyada”
    13) The Lubavitcher Rebbe’s numerous references to the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe specifically “V’hu Yigaleinu” stated after the passing of the previous Rebbe found in Basi L’gani.

    [adapted by Rabbi Moshe Yess from an article written by Rabbi Tuvia Bolton ]

  24. I have been told (but have not seen it myself) that HoRav Klein’s psak is interesting in that he says that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, zatza”l, could be Moshiach as the Moshiach can come from the day, but his psak is against those stating that the Rebbe is alive. Would someone post a copy of the original psak in Hebrew?

  25. Comment from Milhouse
    Time May 6, 2009 at 4:35 PM

    I hate to break it to you guys, but R Klein is on record as saying that there is nothing wrong with believing that the L Rebbe is still Moshiach. He made a public statement to that effect shortly after the LR’s passing, and nothing can change that.

    efshar you can poste a source fro theis. you clain its on record, maybe you can show the record.
    the fact is. that in 1996 rabbi klein spoke at the siyum hashas against the rebbe being moshiach. with some protests from some meshugoyim. and afterwards, rabbi butman got up and said that with all do respect the sighns on the walls are mochiach that the rebbe is moshiach(dumb statment.).

    It states in the Gemora: Rav states:

    “If Moshiach will come from the living, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh (i.e.Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi), if he comes from the dead, it will be Daniel (the Prophet)…”

    What is shocking is Rashi’s commentary on this:

    This means, that if Moshiach were to come from those who are living now, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh…but if (Moshiach) is to come from those who have died already, it will be ‘Daniel Ish Chamudos’…”

    This is proof that Moshiach can come from the dead. There are other sources

    first of all there is another pirush in rashi.
    now on this pirush you will see (if you were ever taught how to learn and be medayek a rashi) that he says if there was someone in the previos genaration who could have been moshiach (in his times)_it was daniel

    Can the
    Moshiach [King Messiah] come from the dead?

    The answer is surprisingly enough, a resounding yes!
    In the second to the last Rashi (the foremost explainer of the scripture and the Talmud, printed in every text) in the book of Daniel, (12:12) he writes: “The Moshiach [King Messiah] will reveal himself and then be concealed…. and then revealed once more, and so it says in the Midrash on Ruth and in the poems of Rabbi Eliezer HaKalir.”
    So it states in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 98b), “If the Moshiach [King Messiah] comes from the dead he will be someone like Daniel.” Rashi there explains this to mean exactly what it says; Moshiach [King Messiah] can come from the dead.

    The great and holy scholar, Rabbi Chiam Midini, in his work Sdei Chemed (Peyas HaSadeh, Maareches “Alef”, os Eyin), elaborates on this, and connects this Talmudic statement to an earlier one (ibid 98a) referring to the prophecy of Daniel: “If the generation is fortunate the Moshiach [King Messiah] will come from the dead, i.e. on “clouds of heaven,” and then everyone will accept him with no reservations. But if not he will come from the living, i.e. riding on a donkey (lit. “chamor”, which also means “physical” in Hebrew)”.
    And so agrees the Holy Chacham Yosef Chiam (The Ben Ish Chai) in his commentary on Sanhedren 98 in his book “Ben Yhoyada”, that Moshiach [King Messiah] can come from the dead. (he also explains the topic there of Moshiach ben Yosef and how he can also be Moshiach)
    The Zohar in Parshat Balak (pg. 203b) states that the Moshiach [King Messiah] will have to “die”‘ i.e. go to a higher spiritual level, and return again with the new level he has attained.

    In the 13th. chapter of Shaar Hagilgulim (near the end) it states that after the Moshiach [King Messiah] arrives, he will be hidden in heaven like Moshe [Moses] was hidden on Mount Siani, and then he will appear again.

    Finally the Abarbanel states in his book “Yeshuot Moshicho” (Part 2, topic 2, chapter 1) that “the Moshiach [King Messiah] will have to die in order to purify the generation…and he will wait in a spiritual state in ‘heaven’ until it he rises from the dead, as it says in the Talmud Sanhedrin (98b).

    All the above were sources from several hundred years ago supporting the idea that Moshiach CAN come from the dead.

    Sources List:-

    1) Sanhedrin 98b (see Rashi on this)
    2) S’dei Chemed vo;.7, page 2984
    3) Derech Eretz Zuta (end of chapter 11)
    4) Yeshuos Meshicho (page 104)
    5) Midrash Eichah Rabbah (1:51)
    6) Yefeh Anaf (commentary on Midrash Eichah Rabbah, ibid)
    7) Arba Mei’os Shekel Kesef (p.68 by Rabbi Chaim Vital , pupil of the Arizal)
    8) Meori Tzion (chapter 97)
    9) Zohar (Balak, 203b)
    10) Maamarim of the Alter Rebbe (5568 page 283)
    11) Second to last Rashi on Daniel 12:12
    12) The Ben Ish Chai in his commentary on Sanhedren 98 in his book “Ben Yhoyada”
    13) The Lubavitcher Rebbe’s numerous references to the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe specifically “V’hu Yigaleinu” stated after the passing of the previous Rebbe found in Basi L’gani.

    you make as if you discovered america. “I don’t suppose that these facts will make a difference on whether or not Moshiach can come frrom the dead; obviously Rabbi Menashe Klein must have known them and nonetheless saw fit to reject them;. read what he says and then bring your proofs. you answer before you read it. he discusses all you rayes and shlogs it up. please be intellectually honest

  26. Again, Rabbi Klein’s psak evidently is only against believing the Rebbe is alive which he considers to be heretical.

    All your proofs of how the Lubavitcher Rebbe can still be considered Moshiach do not address this issue.

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