Melbourne Chabad Dayan Defends “Yechi” Sign

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teldnerThis post follows our earlier report today here.

In honor of a live satellite broadcast over eighteen years ago, a sign was hung to the back wall of the Yeshivah Centrer Shul in Melbourne. reports: “In following with the sichos we were zoiche to hear at the time, and under the guidance of the Rebbe’s head shliach to Australia, the late Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner OBM, a sign bearing the words ‘Yechi…’ was erected, expressing the enthusiasm that many Chassidim had in the Rebbe’s prophecy that the Geulah was an actual reality.”

At the time, no one argued about the connotations of the sign, states, “simply because they were undisputed; the world had seen the Rebbe’s power and no one was too embarrassed to share the Rebbe with the rest of humanity.” continues: “As one member of Anash who was present at the time the original sign was put up, said, ‘the sign was nothing less than an open and clear expression of our dedication to the Rebbe and everything he stands for.'”

The first sign was hand painted by Melbourne artist Mr. Simcha Fetter, who past away recently after a lengthy illness. reports:

“Shortly after Gimmel Tammuz, communities accross the globe were faced with figuring out where they stood as a community on all of the ‘controversial’ issues; and Australia was no different. As with every good community, many opinions were vocalized, but Rabbi Groner’s view was steadfast: the sign should remain. But contrary to many people’s feeling that this system borderlines on a dictatorship, the reality is that all Torah-true societies have always given the right to answer questions of faith totally into the hands of the spiritual leaders and rabbis who are more knowledgeable and holier than the rest of the people.

“Melbourne’s Chabad community adhered to this path, and when there was dissent shown with the unauthorized removal of the banner from the shul, most supported Rabbi Groner’s opposition, even though their personal view on the signs presence may have differed from that of Rabbi Groner.

“Even though Rabbi Groner clearly marked his authority at the time, it didn’t stop another group from removing the replacement just a few years later, from which Rabbi Groner received much pain.

“The third sign which now hangs in the shul has been fully approved by the Rabonim throughout the years and although many had different opinion regarding the Rebbe’s sichos and their interpretations, all respected Rabbi Groner’s view as the prevailing one, not because of his imposing manner or because of a dictatorial-like system, but rather because he was the Rabbi who made these decisions.

“Rabbi Groner knew to differentiate between people who misconstrued the Rebbe’s sichos and acted in ways contrary to Shulchan Oruch and those who simply acted in accordance with their passion for the Rebbe.”

In a letter to the community, Dayan Telsner wrote, “The late Rabbi Y. D. Groner OBM gave this matter very serious consideration, taking into account the diversity of the shule membership and all associated issues, and issued a Psak that the sign should remain in the Shule. I see no reason to change the status quo and am upholding Rabbi Groner’s Psak in relation to this matter.”

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  1. Now I understand why the RCA has adopted a resolution that would consider ANY person/group that believes in a DEAD MESSIAH to be outside of the Jewish faith. This includes those who are open Meshichistin, and the rest of whom are closet Meshichistin, nevertheless, the result is the same.

    What this means, is not including them in a Minyan, not eating their Shechita, not answering to their Brachos, nor sending children to their schools, etc.

    How ridiculous for these guys to think that just because they ASSERT that derebbe is/was/? Moshiach, THAT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE IT SO!!

  2. This is stupid. The rebbe never was moshiach and never will be. No doubt in the next world he has great pain from this. Skirting around the issue like this ‘dayan’ does only adds to the big slash this has made in Klal Yisroel. Can we eat their meat? Drink their wines? This is christian theology.

    When he saw one of the sichos at the time, the Brisker Rov in the 50s said ‘Er Vet Zach Bald Avekshtelen Far A Moshiac’ He will soon make himself a Moshiach. Whether it was intentional or unintentional we tarnish all of the positive deeds he did by leaving this as his legacy. Rav Shach saw this coming and with tears made his prophetic statements.

    PUT THIS TO REST! Come back into the fold and, as the Rambam says in Igeres Taimon, you will be forgiven.

  3. Sorry #2 but the RCA has lost their credibility on many issues including the one you mentioned. Torah-true Jews will not listen to a resolution that only perpetuates sinas chinam amongst klal yisroel , c’v.

  4. #4 …lost credibility…” Because of “Yechi
    superstitions” they lost credibility.

    This Dayan from Melbourne perpetuates a myth—which has become entrenched within the movement.

    As Rabbi Dr. David Berger (no relation to me) has pointed out in his excellent book,
    this false “meshichus” has ruined it—to

    Therefore, it is incumbent on other
    Chabad/Lubavitch clergy to distance themselves from this misguided mythology.
    Rabbi Gutnick has set a good example.

  5. This is not about sinas chinam. That is just an attempt by proponents of false meshichus to distract you from the main issue.

    To the contrary, it’s ahavas Yisrael to expose the fallacy of attributing either
    messhiaship or divinity to someone who has passed on.

    It was wrong to do with yuhsh-keh; it was wrong to do with Shabsai Tzvi and it is wrong to do it today.

  6. Why bring up the RCA some of there Rabbonim allow microphones in shul. Furthermore some hold questionable beliefs and they include a teffilah which says the founding of the Medinah is basically the begining of Geulah. What is the source for this and why is this “shita” respected?

  7. Embarrassing moment for Lubavitch — a cult within is briefly revealed. See how quickly devotees flood Matzav with comments hoping to divert our attention to an attack on the RCA.

  8. “RCA…microphones in shul….tziyonishkeit.”

    You guys miss the point. This is about
    silly superstitions.

    The Melbourne Dayan, who supports and defends this narrishkeit, exemplifies and
    perpetuates the problem.

    On the other hand, Rabbi Gutnick
    honestly acknowledges the problem and properly
    discredits it. Other Lubavitch clergymen and
    leaders must follow Rabbi Gutnick’s lead.

    The RCA should also be commended.
    #9 Nice try but once again your silly anti-
    tziyonishkeit has also been discredited.

    #8 “Founding of Medinah beginning of Geulah”

    That’s another discussion altogether.
    You don’t have to take a dogmatic position on that to thank HASHEM for providing yeedin
    with a national homeland.

    But all this has no shih-khis with regard to crowning a dead person moshiakh. It is outrageous. Shalom Al Yisrael!

  9. Nothing to do with cult just trying to point out that those who critisize sometimes have questionable views themselves and why are those questions not addressed but this Meshichist stuff is addressed over and over again.

  10. #6

    Chabad is growing….
    Therefore…..what does that mean?

    You realize that many groups are growing at a fast pace and are doing volunteer, humanitarian good work around the globe.

    What you write has no bearing on the truth.

  11. This article has to do with the problems in Chabad not the RCA. In any case the Hashkafos of Chabad these days is quite similar to modern orthodoxy regarding the Medina (under prior Lubavitch Rebbes, Chabad was extremely anti-zionist). Today Chabad hashkofos regarding the Medina (and Mashiach, and…) are NOT like the litvish and chasidishe world.

  12. The Brisker Rov NEVER went to a chabadsker farbrengen. [Historically speaking, the Brisker Rovs statement was in 1950/1, and he never came to the US from then until his passing -on in 1959. Mamesh did not go to Eretz Yisroel (nor leave the US) durring that time period.]

    Microphones on Shabbos is not from the ikrei hadoss and will not render a person an idol worshipper, while certain jews-for-mamesh behavior does.

    Michali, hello. When you say Hashem, who is it you mean? I hope you don’t mean a dead man who some declare as “atzmuso umahuso arain geshtelt in guf” and worse!
    Oy leoznaim shekach shomos.

    BTW, mamash was a big tzioni as well, and strongly opposed allowing non-Jews any governship over Eretz Yisroel EVEN at the expense of Jewish lives. Quit making things up

  13. The Lubavitcher position is very different from the Modern Orthodox position on The Medina. Lubavitchers do not say Halel on Israeli Independence Day or commerarate the founding of the Medina at all and you wont see a Tziyoni flag in any Chabad house. Lubavitch is against giving back land to the Arabs since The Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke about the issue of pikuach nefesh and how giving land to the Goyim endagers the lives of Yidden in E”Y.

  14. to number 14.
    It was a different Brisker Rav. Learn your Jewish history – there’s America Brisk and EY Brisk and if you don’t know that then it’s time to come out of the cave.
    What the article fails to mention is that no one asked Rabbi Groner in the first place if the sign should go up. It was supposed to come down before Shabbos (the satelite hook up was on Thursday). as usual, twists the facts to suit the story.

  15. To #19
    To Mr. Berger,

    David Berger has an agenda to discredit the Chabad movement. His goal is to perpetuate sinas chinam against them and will refuse to recognize the greatness of the rebbe and the good works that his shluchim continue to do even after his passing. I feel very sorry for him. He is a disgrace to YU.

  16. You are thinking of R’ J.B. Solevetchik who can to a farbrengen in 1980,and, according to his daughter (The Solevitchik Heritage, published by Ktav), came away saying the Rebbe thinks he is Moshiach.

  17. Were the eirushim of bayis sheini committing sinas chinam when they opposed the Sadduccees and early “Our guy is moshiach” Notzrim? Or do we say that you are allowed to fight apikorsus?

  18. To Michali (#25): HaRav Aharon Feldman, shlit”a (Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisrael) wrote a letter of appreciation to Dr. Berger for his book, a letter in which Rav Feldman is in full accord with the view that Chabad Messianism represents a danger to Klal Yisrael [an English translation of the letter can be read in Rav Feldman’s recently published book, “The Eye of the Storm,” Feldheim, 2009; the original Hebrew version can be easily found on-line through a Google search].

  19. “The Lubavitcher position is very different from the Modern Orthodox position on The Medina. Lubavitchers do not say Halel on Israeli Independence Day or commerarate the founding of the Medina at all and you wont see a Tziyoni flag in any Chabad house. Lubavitch is against giving back land to the Arabs since The Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke about the issue of pikuach nefesh and how giving land to the Goyim endagers the lives of Yidden in E”Y”.

    Not what I have seen in Kfar Chabad in EY on many occasions.

  20. The Lubvatich position was determined by The Rebbe ZY”A and there was never Halel or Tziyoni flags by The Rebbe nor did they ever sing Hatikva so this is The Lubavitch Shita.


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