Hosted by Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger
By: Let’s Talk Kashrus
The Bourbon industry has spilled over from being the safest walk-a-straight-line mashke to becoming an area fraught with kashrus challenges. The rationale behind that is largely because inherently, bourbon is an aged drink. Can mashgichim delve into years of liquor changing hands?
WATCH:
WATCH THE FULL EPISODE
Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger: In regard to Chometz She’avar alav Ha’Pesach, why is there more of a concern with bourbon than with other whiskeys?
Rabbi Sholem Fishbane: Good question. Bourbon is American-made, so it happens to pass through many Jewish hands, whether at the bottling process, the storing, or the distribution, or even behind the scenes. For example, when a bourbon manufacturer runs out of the base alcohol they might buy it from the Jewish fellow down the block.
It’s much more prevalent than with scotch, which is less of a Jewish-owned industry out in Scotland, or Irish whiskey.
Let’s contrast that with the typical application we would receive to certify potato chips. Day One: application received. On that same day you can watch the potato be removed from the ground, scrubbed, sliced, fried, and packaged. The next day, you’re snacking to your heart’s content, creating a mess in your car. Right?
Not so with bourbon. Bourbons are aged. So when you walk into a factory, you need some intel to figure out, okay, what happened here? It’s one of the things we mashgichim wish we had: time machines! You’ve got to recreate the scene. What happened here eight years ago?
It’s quite fascinating. Just a short time ago, in relation to kashrus, bourbon was the safest drink; four ingredients, nothing else.
I have to tell you, it has exploded the industry. We’ve gotten more knowledge, and it’s not so pashut anymore. Little did I realize that people actually buy barrels and they age it in their own basements.
There was a yungerman from Lakewood who purchased several hundred thousand dollars of bourbon from a Jewish-owned company that never sold their Chometz! He aged it in his cellar and boy, what a nisayon to have! Should he pour it down the drain? Can he give it away? These are real shailos for a Rav.
Rabbi Hisiger: That’s a straight up tough shot to swallow.
Rabbi Fishbane: Here’s another one. Many years ago, we were invited to a large bourbon and spirits factory. They asked us to certify their product for their Israel market.
In Eretz Yisroel, the Rabbanut is very makpid on yoshon. So the question at hand was: Is the wheat used to make the vodka yoshon? I remember walking through the factory and then we sat down to discuss the matter with them. As I was getting up, I said, “Oh, I forgot to ask one thing. By the way, is this factory Jewish-owned?” He looked at me and said, “Yeah.” And I asked, “Do you know if the chometz was sold?”
He had no idea what I was talking about. He thought that we were talking about mevushal, because they knew that when they donated to the local federation, it always had to be mevushal. So he said, “But rabbi, it was cooked!” The halacha of chometz she’avar alav haPesach was so foreign to him. (It took six months to research if he was actually Jewish, not just “culturally Jewish”. He happened to be well-known within political circles, so we ended up calling a senator who grew up with him. We also had to investigate if it was fully Jewish-owned.) Anyway, it was a fascinating halachic question.
So Reb Yitzchok, let me ask you: If you were the owner and I, or any other rav hamachshir, knew that this is chometz she’avar alav haPesach, which we assume Chazal made to encourage you, the owner, to not have chometz on Pesach, do I have to announce that to the world? In Brisker terms, is it a din on the gavra or is it a din on the cheftza?
Now, the AKO Bais Din doesn’t convene often, but when it does, boy, is it a serious thing. The poskim of the major agencies come together to solve very complex shailos. We had to gather the Bais Din for this, because since this individual owned so many products, the problem was so far-reaching. It would affect Jewish events, simchos, and individual consumption all over. The Bais Din reached the maskanah that, yes, chometz she’avar alav haPesach is so serious in the eyes of Chazal and we must raise awareness about this.
So Reb Yitzchok, can you imagine the call I had to make to this factory? “Yeah, I just want to follow up on your request to be kosher. Well, not only can you not be kosher, but I’m about to tell the world that the majority of your products may not be used.” Boy, did that not go over well.
But sometimes the Ribono Shel Olam shows that when you do the right thing, it works out. One day the guy called us back and said, “You know what? We were so impressed with your authenticity, it was an incredibly uncomfortable thing for you to do what you did, and it could have had legal ramifications too, but you just stuck to the letter of Jewish law. I want to do this right. What can we do to make our product kosher?”
I said, “Well, generally when you have a company that’s Jewish-owned, we sell the chometz before Pesach and buy it back after Pesach.”
He looks at me and says, “Well, according to federal law, every time I buy or sell liquor, I’m required to pay tax. That’s going to cost me at least $300 million in taxes every Passover!”
Rabbi Hisiger: For real?
Rabbi Fishbane: Yes, since it’s a bona fide sale. I start throwing at him Chasam Sofers, but he cut me off and asked, “Rabbi, is this a real sale or not?” And I tell him, “Of course it’s a real sale.”
In the end, we came up with a creative solution. He agreed to put away a hundred barrels every year so that a non-Jewish person would own it fully — all the way until bottling. They would also mark off the barrels so they wouldn’t be touched, and in ten years we’d have authentically kosher bourbon!
Rabbi Hisiger: Ingenious. Did he have to pay tax on that?
Rabbi Fishbane: No, legally it was a different type of sale. But the point I want to bring out with this is his question, which really sheds light on the whole inyan of chometz she’avar alav haPesach. As with all the topics we’re discussing here, the yochid should follow the guidance of his own rav, because, indeed, there are many who are machshir even if the company is Jewish-owned, specifically when it comes to schnapps.
WATCH THE FULL EPISODE
______
We invite your questions, comments, or feedback. If there’s a specific kashrus topic you’d like to bring to public attention, feel free to contact us by e-mail: [email protected]
Message or call: 678-8-Kosher
You can also visit our website www.kashrusawareness.com for a growing list of resources, timely conversations, and to watch the debut episodes of the Let’s Talk Kashrus audio-visual series.
JUST RELEASED: The 2022 AKO Post-Pesach Shopping Guide
Join a Let’s Talk Kashrus WhatsApp Group for educational content and kashrus updates
Click here to Join a LTK WhatsApp Group.
To anyone who will try to argue the $300 million tax tag, this isn’t income or capital gains taxes that can be negated with losses when buying it back.
The tax being referenced here is essentially a sin tax. Alcohol produced for consumption is subject to a federal tax of $13.50 per proof gallon.
So a 2-gallon bottle of 100-proof spirits would cost $13.50 in excise tax.
Multiply that by hundreds of barrels being prematurely sold, and you could end up with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars subject to an excise tax, with no consumer to pass along the costs to.
Wondering if there is any way a real organization like Aguda can lobby to have this tax removed for pesach sales, which probably go back after Yom Tov