WEIGHING IN: Rebbi: Why Bochurim Were Suspended for Attending a Levayah

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Dear Editor,

As a member of the hanhalah of a yeshiva that penalized bochurim for going to a levayah this week, I wish to share the following.

Firstly, don’t believe everything you read. Certain things are misreported and misrepresented. So don’t take things hook, line and sinker. There’s much you don’t know. Don’t believe the so-called investigative reporting.

Secondly, when a bochur is suspended for going to a levayah, he isn’t suspended because he went to a levayah. It’s sounds sensational to say it and it works great for website headlines. But the truth is that he’s suspended because he blatantly violated yeshiva rules. If a bochur is explicitly told not to go somewhere and he still goes, he has ignored his rebbi and his hanhalah. Therefore, even if he went to visit Rav Chaim Kanievsky, for example, he should be penalized because he defied his rabbeim.

So of course, it sounds great to proclaim that bochurim were suspended for going to a levayah, and then all the brilliant pundits can comment about how the bochurim were not treated fairly and the mechanchim don’t know what they are doing. The truth is that the mechanchim do know what they are doing. Yes, a student will be penalized for ignoring the rules of his school or yeshiva, no matter how righteous his excuse is. If a bochur leaves yeshiva grounds without permission to daven or attend a shiur – and we know that Torah supersedes all – should he not be penalized because he was doing a choshuve thing? Of course he’ll have to own up to it. It’s not a free-for-all.

Finally, the decision of a yeshiva is its alone. It shouldn’t be fodder for every person at a keyboard to chime in on. You don’t like a yeshiva’s rules? Don’t send your kid there. No one forced you. And if a yeshiva feels that it must apply certain rules or penalties, then either deal with it or mind your own business.

Sincerely,

A Rebbi

{Matzav.com}

166 COMMENTS

  1. So once you have the yeshiva to put out a statement, please ask Why they werent allowed to go in the first place.

    • I have seen comments from Talmidim of R’Chazkal and R’Volbe who would not allow their talmidim to go to a Levayah in the middle of seder. I know my Rosh Yeshiva a Gadol of the previous generation, would have done the same. It is not just about Mevatlin Talmud Torah L’halvayas Hames (even though that doesn’t apply anyways if it’s in a different city). It is also about heving a hefsek in the middle of the zman. 1+1 does not equal 2. the fact that it is almost the end of the zman, makes it even more of a reason not go.

      I have heard the R”Y of this Yeshiva himself was close to the Skulener Rebbe ZT”L gave a hesped for him the night before and stated Rebbe would have wanted the bochurim to honor him by staying and learning during the Levaya.

      Different Yeshivas can have different mehalchim. When you are a talmud of a Yeshiva, you are subject to their derech. By defying the R”Y the talmidim were undermining the Yeshiva

      • Every word you said is correct.
        However, why does a yeshiva who acting in good faith, made a decision for its talmidim, have to answer to the anonymous denizens of the web?

        Its ridiculous. Why is this member of the hanhala responding?

    • Another website states that based on a psak heard by the Rosh Yeshiva From R’ Aharon that one does not be mevatel torah to attend an out of town levaya. This yeshiva set a precedent years ago by not allowing Bochrim to attend the levaya of R’ Elya Svei.

    • Kudos to Matzav for not going along with the other two frum news sites that posted the ridiculous article in the first place. Those have bl”n lost this reader.
      Seeing as Matzav is now one of the only frum websites I have left, please keep up the great work!

  2. Well said.
    No different than leaving a job to attend a levaya. Boss says no, don’t go. If you do, expect repercussions.
    Yeshiva is preparing them for real life.

    • A sane boss does not suspend or fire an employee for attending a levaya. Secondly, in a Yeshiva, it’s the parents who are the boss.

      • The parents who are the boss! Are you kidding us? Moshe kibeil Torah mei’har Sinai umasruha li’Yehoshua (not TO his children and not FROM his father Amram. So much more to say. . .

      • What ridiculous statements. The parents are not the bosses, they have zero say. Their say is limited only to which Yeshiva they send to. If you don’t like a particular Yeshiva, don’t send there. If you do, expect that they are the ones in charge.

  3. No. That’s not acceptable. Attending a yeshiva doesn’t mean that the hanhala of the yeshiva has been accepted by the bachur as his moreh derech in every aspect of his life. The hanhala of the yeshiva shouldn’t demand that. Who are they? Are they the gedola hador that everyone must blindly obey? What if the yeshiva would say that a bachur shouldn’t go to his own father’s levaya, does he have to obey that too? A bachur who has his own idea of right and wrong, or his own moreh derech for right and wrong shouldn’t be punished by hanhalas hayeshiva. It would be so nice and such admirable chinuch if a menahel would say to a bachur “I didn’t think you should do this but if you felt it was right and followed your conscience, I respect you for having the strength to do what you felt is right”. Additionally if you want to be respected, you can’t be this unreasonable. Maybe you’ll win the battlers and succeed to control the boys but they won’t really respect you for it. They will respect you if you show respect-worthy behavior in leadership.

    • If the Yehiva and Rosh Yehiva are not the bochur’s morah derech, he should not be in that Yeshiva. aside for the fact that being Morah Derech is an important part of what a Yeshiva is, he is undermining the purpose of the Yeshiva for others who are there. If the Yeshiva is not his Morah Derech, then that further makes the case for the Yeshiva suspending him. It benefits all, he can now spend time finding a Yeshiva for next zman that will be his Morah Derech

    • A bachur with his own ideas of right and wrong! You’re not serious! The Rebbe and hanhallah are not the moreh derech?
      Es HaShem E-lokecha tira, l’rabos talmidim. What is a mesorah if not a talmid receiving from his Rebbe.

      • Well unfortunately this is a sentiment shared by many bochurim and parents. Why do you think the bochurim have no respect for authority, they are not trained properly to have respect and they do not see it being modeled properly by the adults in their lives.

    • totally agree. i think the rosh yeshiva was out of line. sorry to say it on a ry” but they are human and to tell bocharim not to go to a levaya from a gadol hador is against the gemara. i dont understand how they even said such a thing. and no supervision? they could have sent someone to watch.

      • Against the Gemara? What are you talking about? Why do you think that you know what the Gemara says better than the Rosh Yeshiva?

  4. ok?????
    I heard you ….
    Now please tell all of us ….. why didn’t you allow Chassidishe Bochrim to go to this Levaya?
    Ok we get it ..they broke the rules and you threw them out …
    but now that it is all over …
    Why??Why in the world would you be so cruel for them to miss this historic event?
    Why?

    • Okay. So based on that logic, if the NY Jets were to ever get into the Superbowl, all the bachurim should be allowed to slam shut the Gemorah, “because it’s a big event”. What an am haaretz idiot.

      • I can’t believe that you actually agree with what you wrote.
        Comparing the levaya of one of the Tzidekei Hador, not only from this generation but even from the previous generation – and you compare that l’havdil to the NY Jets? You Jewish?
        If yes – you must be an apikorus big time.
        You know of the Gemorah in Kesubos of the levaya of Rabbeinu Hakodosh – that everyone in attendance received Olam Haba for attending. Why is this any different?
        Maybe these bochurim should have listened to their Hanholo – maybe not.
        But one can surely understand these bochurim for going.
        The BIG question here is why the hanholo didn’t let them go to begin with. Actually why they didn’t get buses and take ALL the bochurim?
        I guarantee you that if it was Rav Aharon’s levaya or Reb Moshe’s z”l levaya – they would have all gone.
        Does this smell from disrespect to Chassidish Tzaddikim r’l?????
        Shame on you.

        • Azoiy: “You know of the Gemorah in Kesubos of the levaya of Rabbeinu Hakodosh – that everyone in attendance received Olam Haba for attending. Why is this any different?”

          Every Chasidishe Rebbe is like Rabbeinu Hakodosh??? Who made that one up?

          • No one is trying to evaluate or compare Tzadikim, the analogy is on the general Mitzva of attending a Levaya of a great Tzadik.
            And Yes, we should learn from the Gemara how to treat the Tzadikim of our generation.

  5. Dear Rebbi,
    This yeshiva has been expelling bucharim en masse for a litle while now. So this is not a unique event. Besides expelling them for such a long time is extreme. We all have a right to chime in because you’re sourcing bochurim from the Lakewood community; vetting them, accepting them, and then expelling them. So we all have a right to chime in just like you have a right to expel them. A right to expel them yes, A justified reason to expel bucharim en masse, no.
    Parents beware! This is not the first time bachurim are expelled en masse from this yeshiva.

  6. Dear Rebbe:
    The strong negative reaction by the tzibur to this story, is not to question the authority of a school/hanhala or the importance of students to obey them, rather, the tzibur is shocked on the strange sense of spiritual values of this hanhala, to be so insensitive to feelings of boys that want to join in the kovod haachron of a true tzadik godol, the school took an extreme stand when ruling that they cannot attend, especially the boys who learn in this school who had a personal kesher to the tzadik at some time.
    So the negative reaction is, why does the school set rules that go against the accepted norm in the Torah world at large.

  7. I’m sorry to say that I do not agree with this Rebbe. Children today need warmth and love from their Rebbeim, not to be controlled and penalized, especially if this was their outlet. I am not impressed by the language of this Rebbe that we should mind our own business. I would not want him to be mechanech any of my sons. A better way to deal with this even if it was done without permission is to tell the boys, “under normal circumstances of cutting Yeshivah there would be a consequence. But we can not punish you for going to a levaya of such a gadol b’yisroel and we are hoping that you have gained much inspiration from the hespedim to follow in the ways of this gadol b’Yisroel.” Just a side point: For a bachor (or any person for the matter) to see the magnitude of tens of thousands of yidden paying their final respect to the niftar can have a lifelong influence and impact. May we all be zoche to learn from the Skulner Rebbe zatzal how to be mekareiv yidden. He was known for his tremendous ahavas yisroel.

    • That’s why he didn’t allow anyone who has a smartphone to touch his aron?! What about your claims of “accepting and mekarev”?!

      There are rules that must be followed. He was the biggest proponent of following the rules. Either the teens follow the rules, or they will remove themselves from the yeshiva when they defy the rules by going AWOL.

  8. I find it tragic that such a statement should even have to be said. How we have fallen when everyone suddenly has the right to critique a named yeshiva – one with a pristine record of first-rate chinuch – unabashed. People should keep their comments to themselves.

  9. This reminds me of an old known vertel, that moshiach will have to be a litvak and now I understand why
    because as soon as they announce that a chossid is Moshiach,
    the yeshivas will not allow the bochurim to go . . . .
    if this is the Rebbi – busy on Matzav.com at 9:10 am . . . then such chushive bochurim don’t belong there.

    • What a naarishe comment!!!
      A quick comment while a Rebbi is eating breakfast definitely doesn’t deserve YOUR brilliant dei’os.

  10. “Finally, the decision of a yeshiva is its alone.”

    Huh?

    All decisions are subject to the review of מועצת גדולי האינטערנעט!

  11. First, this is not only about sending (or not sending) a child to this yeshivah. It is also about sending (or not sending) to the yeshivah money. And it is also about knowing and being aware just what the rules of the yeshivah are, before sending a child or money to the yeshivah.

  12. Number 1: Why is this Rebbe anonymous?
    I can think of a number of reasons, none of them complimentary.

    Number 2: Even if a yeshiva has told Bochurim not to attend the levaya, and the Bochurim defied the Yeshiva and went, now what? Do you think that kicking out 50 Bochurim sends any kind of positive, teaching message? Or does it tell Bochurim that next time you need to sneak better?
    Wouldn’t it be better to use this as a teachable moment, to sit down with the boys and explain the Cheshbon, from both a Halachic and Hashkafic perspective, instead of creating a Chillul Hashem and a Bizayon Hatorah? AND division between Litvisher and Chassidim!

    Number 3: Dance in the streets that your Bochurim’s rebellion consists of a Mitzva.
    When I was in Yeshiva (the top yeshiva of the day), boys went to much worse places. And were dealt with much more intelligently.

    Number 4: Get off your high horse. Perhaps a yeshiva retains the sole right to make decisions, even foolish ones. But so does everyone with a keyboard. You don’t like what they have to say? Don’t read it. Or, as the eponymous”Rebbe” so wisely said, “Mind your own business “.

  13. The rule- makers should be called out for not making it a rule that everyone must go
    This decision was a major chilul hashem
    As for the so-called rebbi’s comment, you’re in the wrong business; with your hot-headedness you’d do well on a construction site

  14. What nonsense. Instead the yeshiva should of told them to go and show kavod to the niftar. The boys would remember this for life and have a good feeling to the yeshiva. This is chinuch 101 I can’t believe that they don’t get

  15. The question is not about whether the yeshiva was right or wrong about throwing out the boys for not listening to the rules. The question is should the yeshiva had made a rule like that or not? What is the proper chinuch?
    If it was Rav Ahron leibs levaya would the yeshiva had made a rule like that and told everyone to stay put?
    In Eretz Yisroel, ALL Yeshivas and businesses are closed for a gadols levaya.
    If we are taking about chassidush buchrim is it fair to make a rule like that when the last remaining pre-war rebbe was nifter? As a Mechanech, I would have turned my head away and not mentioned anything in the first place and let bygones be bygones. Now what lesson dd you give over? Part of chinuch is being mechanech “al pi darko” not your derech.

  16. Not that it matters what I think in this case, but I do agree with this letter. My take was the same when I read about the suspension. The reason they were suspended is because they disobeyed the school rules. That’s it. I always told my kids when they were growing up, that “You know the rules of the school. If we don’t like the rules we can try to change schools. (in those days we could still choose our schools rather the the schools choosing us:) Meanwhile, you have to obey, whether you like it or not. If you disobey, you will have to live with the punishment.” I don’t know if the snowflakes of today can take it, but that’s life.

  17. Very nice speach!
    But who are you that we should care about you’re opinion just because you got yourself a shteler doesnt mean anything,
    We are interested in true daas torah not what a rebbi blurts out when he us offended that someone compromised his authority

  18. I don’t understand this Rebbe. I’m sure he and the hanhala had their reasons , but to say nobody should chime in and everyone should mind his own business. I thought we are supposed to care for each other and if we see something that we feel is unjust we should say something. I’m not at all going to tell anyone how to run his Yeshiva but to say it’s nobody’s business? I really don’t understand his letter and I think his letter needs more clarification . If you really feel it’s right what you did and it’s nobody’s business then why do you care what nobody writes? Just do whatever you feel is right and ignore us.

    If this letter was genuine I would assume it would be written on the Yeshiva’s letterhead and signed by the Rosh Yeshiva.

  19. After reading the tone and content of this letter, I feel I have to vomit! Perhaps some penalty is warranted, but suspension?! I know that after 120, The Ribbono Shel Olam will be kicking around all these “exemplary michanchim” who have destroyed our generation. There is almost no house without a corpse! And, just know that it comes around very quickly.

  20. Rebbi, why are you unable to sign your name to your piece. After all you feel so certain that what you and your hanhala did is so right, why hide behind anonymity. Hey rebbi dear, I suggest two things: (unlikely you’ll do either because you hide in your Mr. Righteous Cloak!) 1) Read the Bostoner Rebbe’s letter and 2) Think about the ramifications of your actions:I submit more egregious than that of the bochurim. Penalizing them, although I’m not sure is the way to go, but perhaps! To disallow them to return?? May the Aibershter do the same unto you and your family! What happened to teshuva? Is your yeshiva so ultra super holy that only the holiest of the holy may partake? Don’t call me for funds and don’t ever invite me to your yeshiva events! To me it seems like zivchay meisim! Feh!

  21. It’s obvious and probably correct that bochurim that went to the levaya even if after asking permission which was not granted should be punished ( not sure that throwing them out of the Yeshiva is the correct punishment but that’s a different argument)
    The question is why they were not granted permission in the first place?
    That is odd and not correct

  22. You’re so right and therefore I won’t send my son to your Yeshiva Bez”h.
    If you will give the Bachurim some Ruchnius’dige outings, they would be able to cope without the summer Bein Hazmanim. Every Bochur needs some fresh air, it’s either sports or visiting Gedolim. The Yeshiva I attended chose the 2nd option.

  23. This is the MOST hostile answer I have ever seen from a “Rebi”. You should be ashamed of yourself with such a response.

  24. Aaz mehn fraigt iz treif.
    Aaz siz treif iz ehr doch ah Chitzpenyak in efsher ah shaigahtzzz.
    Ahs isiz ahzoy, nee, Avahdah darf mehn araus varfehn.
    Voo Dehn ???

  25. Thank you Matzav for restoring my faith in Jewish media.
    May those who wish to dishonor the kavod of a Rosh Yeshiva be vanquished

  26. No it is not up to a yeshiva to expel. Wrong, Rabbi. Our gedolim have said for over two decades that expelloing studerns is dinei nefashos and needs a beis din. Did your hanhalla go to beis din and get a heter to kick out fifty kosher talmidei chachamim? Outrageous. You are living off of klal money. A yeshiva is not a factory. It subsists on kahal money and must never be allowed to kill kids. That type of behavior, according to my Holocaust survivor mother, is reserved for the I’ll of mengele. You have no right to pijnt to the left a group of bachurim!

  27. Not sure why you didn’t post my comment, so I’ll try again

    Number 1: Why is this Rebbe anonymous?
    I can think of a number of reasons, none of them complimentary.

    Number 2: Even if a yeshiva has told Bochurim not to attend the levaya, and the Bochurim defied the Yeshiva and went, now what? Do you think that kicking out 50 Bochurim sends any kind of positive, teaching message? Or does it tell Bochurim that next time you need to sneak better?
    Wouldn’t it be better to use this as a teachable moment, to sit down with the boys and explain the Cheshbon, from both a Halachic and Hashkafic perspective, instead of creating a Chillul Hashem and a Bizayon Hatorah? AND division between Litvisher and Chassidim!

    Number 3: Dance in the streets that your Bochurim’s rebellion consists of a Mitzva.
    When I was in Yeshiva (the top yeshiva of the day), boys went to much worse places. And were dealt with much more intelligently.

    Number 4: Get off your high horse. Perhaps a yeshiva retains the sole right to make decisions, even foolish ones. But so does everyone with a keyboard. You don’t like what they have to say? Don’t read it. Or, as the eponymous”Rebbe” so wisely said, “Mind your own business “.

  28. Very well said! it’s not up to the yentas who sit at their keyboard to decide what the rules of the Yeshiva should be. You don’t like the rules in a particular Yeshiva, don’t send your kid there! You don’t like the rules in Yeshivas in general, send your kid to public school! No one needs you. The Yeshiva has rules.

    It’s not up to the school to present its case or defend itself on these yenta type blogs.

  29. I agree with the Rebbi. I’m not Chassidish, I dont live in BP, Lakewood or Monsey, and I didnt attend this levaya, nor do I know which school this is about.
    But the Rebbi is correct. Life and Avodas Hashem is not a free for all. Talmidim can not just cut school just because they feel like it and use attending this levaya as an excuse, even if the mob says they should. Then the next group of bochurim can cut school to do whatever they feel like doing for what they feel is their avodas hashem, and they shouldnt face ramifications either.
    Would it be ok for a group of bochurim to attend the Israel Day Parade, if they feel thats important for their avodas hashem!? How about if they want to attend a very spiritual concert in Central Park on Lag B’Omer, and the school does not allow it, would that be ok for bachurim to cut school and attend? If the school has rules against going on the internet, and bochurmi disobey and go on the internet to hear a shiur, would that be ok?! No! So the school had rules for not going to this event, and for some very good reasons, and the school must back up for what they stand for. Kol HaKavod to the Rebbi and to the school.

    • What does “Talmidim can not just cut school just because they feel like it” have to do with this? I wasn’t there either (I am in Canada) but the openly available media coverage makes it clear to me that anyone who could have gone but didn’t is “poresh min a hatzibur”. The media relates that these bochurim are from that same “tzibur” close to the deceased, and the burden of justifying being “poresh min a hatzibur” is on those who try to prevent attendance.

      • Maybe Poresh min Hatzibur means something entirely different in Canada than it does in the U.S.. Most of this Yeshiva did not go, most of Lakewood did not go.

  30. This Litvish So Called Rosh Yeshiva can’t stand that a chasidisher rabbi had the biggest lavaya in New York
    when he makes a wedding and needs the bucherim to dance for him, than there is no bittel torah

  31. Tis Litvish So Called Rosh Yeshiva can’t stand that a chasidisher rabbi had the biggest lavaya in New York
    when he makes a wedding and needs the bucherim to dance for him, than there is no bittel torah

    • You most have been itching to write this comment. The fact that it was not a “litvisher” yeshiva makes no difference to you.

      Nebach.

  32. Even if the underlying premise is correct – that is, break the rules, suffer the consequences, the letter is written in a terribly arrogant manner that brings no credit to the writer or the institution. First, the writer tells us that there is much we don’t know – but refuses to even hint at what he knows that would “set us straight.” Then he creates a straw man – saying that those who are puzzeled by the Yeshiva’s actions think the rebbeim don’t know what they’re doing. No one said that. What they are seeking is a rational explanation for the decision to not allow anyone to attend the levaya. And while the writer tells us the rebbeim know what they’re doing – once again, he refuses to share with us their reasoning. His final paragraph is the worst piece of sophistry – where he proclaims – if you don’t like the yeshiva’s rules, don’t send your sons. That works for rules that exist before someone is enrolled, not for after adopted rules.
    Bottom line – the writer says nothing of substance to support the yeshiva’s actions – whether they were right or wrong.

  33. when i was 14 chaim berlin took all of us to rav ahrons levaya. when i was 20 rabbi freifeld took all of us to the skveka rebbes levaya

  34. Wow. Just what we need, more machlokes in Am Yisrael. Galus is so great and the current wave of vicious anti-Semitism is so wonderful that we should forget about bringing the Geula and keep fighting among ourselves. Who needs Moshiach when we can sit here like kings, hiding behind our computers and stir up more sinas chinam?

    • Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
      Sure, I have my opinions on this issue, but:
      1) I don’t have all the facts.
      2) I am not a baki in hilchos lashon hora.

      Please, let’s not be a group of yentas spewing for all to see.

    • Very few people have managed to bring so much Achdus among Heimishe bloggers as much as the writer of the above article. My passion for controversies is so great, that I Love those Yidden who create them.
      I Love you too, among all Yidden.

      Seriously speaking, we must work on Ahavas Yisroel, just not through ignoring our differences of opinion, but by loving each other despite all arguments.

  35. i simply disagree!
    dont make rules that make no sense
    and if you do expect them to be broken.
    i would be thrilled if this is the “trouble” my children did.
    as i look around the world today i beg hashem and say halevi my kids got suspended for something of the sort and not….

  36. This Rebbe can do teshuvah soon.

    In around two weeks, on 11 Nissan, is the birthday of the Lubavitcher Rebbe shliteh.

    This yeshiva can charter a bus and take the whole yeshiva to the Rebbe’s Ayhel in Queens to ask mechilah, and announce their mass conversion to the Hasidic faith.

  37. If a bachur brings a parent’s signed note beforehand to be excused to attend a levaya, the school authorities should accept it. End of problem.

  38. As a Livish person who took off from work to attend the levaya, This issue reminds me of the guys who used to get into trouble for learning during English or similar breaking of rules.

    Of course they all said “why is English more important than learning? what kind of yeshiva punishes someone for learning ?blah blah blah”

    In reality of course they deserved the punishment. They weren’t learning during English because of Ahavas H’Torah but rather to show the English teacher who is the boss and who decides what will be done along with a general message to him that he isn’t important or worthy of their respect .

    The hanhala of this yeshiva is probably in the same situation as the English teachers were. Hence the reaction.

    • Are you seriously arguing that these students were only motivated by their desire to show disrespect to their institution? You would need extremely strong evidence to back that up.

  39. Goldie Rosenberg: No it is not up to a yeshiva to expel. Wrong, Rabbi. Our gedolim have said for over two decades that expelloing studerns is dinei nefashos and needs a beis din

    Goldie, do you understand English? I assume reading comprehension was taught in your Beis Yankev, was it not?

    The students were suspended, not expelled.

    • and that punished the students how? free time todo whatever they want. that’s like somebody stealing 100 dollars and the judge giving them 100000 dollars.

    • Fyi, can you read? The article said that a number of them were told not to return next Zman either.
      That means EXPELLED!
      Just because the Yeshiva wrote suspended so as to make themselves seem less egregious, the fact is that at least some of them were permanently EXPELLED

  40. I was ashamed of the pushing and shoving by our supposedly learned Yeshiva bochurim when the Aron came out of the Bais Medrash. It was a Bizuion Hames and not a kovrd for the great Tzadik. Boruch Hashemite no one got hurt. It was the Zchus of the Niftar. Perhaps before sending boys from Yeshiva the Rebbi should teach them how to act with Derech Eretz

  41. Dear Holy Rabbi,my guess is that if Chas Vashalom one of the ROSHEI YESHIVA OF LAKEWOOD WAS NIFTAR AT THE AGE OF 120 YEARS OLD, THEN THE ENTIRE YESHIVA WOULD CLOSED DOWN.THE HANALA HAD NO RIGHT TO TELL THE BOCHIRUM NOT TO GO TO ONE OF THE LAST GEDOLIM OF THE PAST.AS TO THE COMMENT IF ANYONE DOES NOT LIKE THE YESHIVA’S RULE THEN HE SHOULD GO TO ANOTHER YESHIVA.THIS YESHIVA GOES TO EVERY PART OF NY ,NJ FOR “SHABBOS CHIZUK” .

  42. first of all, the yeshiva never said not to go – the bochurim went without asking as they had to leave early. secondly, they never thought that they would not be allowed to go. okay so it was a mistake on their part – for this you suspend 50 bochurim? this tzaddik was beaten and jailed for other jews. who else did this?

  43. first of all, the yeshiva never said not to go – the bochurim went without asking as they had to leave early. secondly, they never thought that they would not be allowed to go. okay so it was a mistake on their part – for this you suspend 50 bochurim? this tzaddik was beaten and jailed for other jews. who else did this?

  44. ATT REBBI: DONT MAKE UP STORIES I JUST SPOKE WITH 10 BOYS!!!!
    They Asked for permission & were told we are letting any boys go to the levaya because its not the Levaya of A Litvush R”Y!!!

  45. Do they know this STORY????????

    Food for Thought
    Clothed for the Rebbe
    By Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger
    Yated Ne’eman
    About twenty years ago, a yungerman was driving Rav Nosson Wachtfogel zt”l,mashgiach of Bais Medrash Govoah to a parlor meeting in the Capitol Hotel to benefit the Skulener Rebbe’s Chesed L’Avrohom organization. En route to the simcha, the driver mentioned in passing that the Skulener Rebbe himself would be traveling from Brooklyn to attend.
     
    Rav Nosson responded by asking theyungerman to drive him back home.
     
    The yungerman was confused. Why the need to go back?
     
    “If the Skulener Rebbe is coming,” explained Rav Nosson, “I have to put on my Shabbosclothes.”
     
    The yungerman was surprised.
     
    “Far aza Yid vos ess nisht un shloft nisht un iz moser nefesh far Klal Yisroel darf min gantzin un ton Shabbos klaider. (For such a Yid, who doesn’t eat and doesn’t sleep, and is moser nefesh for Klal Yisroel, one must dress completely in Shabbos attire.)”
     
    Despite weakness and frailty, Rav Nosson returned to his home, climbing the steps to his front door with great difficulty. He then spent a significant amount of time to fully change into his Shabbos clothing.
     
    Such was the respect Rav Nosson accorded to the rebbe, whose passing we mourn this week, teaching this yungerman what kavod for atzaddik entails.
     

  46. Dear Rebbi

    Reading your letter indicates your disdain for chasidim.Please see how 10 bochurim were told that this is not a Rosh Yeshiva and subsequently they couldn’t go.
    If you don’t want chasidishe bochurim don’t take them.Except they are wonderful passionate dedicated ovdei Hashem.
    Dear Parents
    Please don’t send your treasured sons to a place that doesn’t respect your heritage and can turn your boys off.
    Dear Rich Litvishe Billionaires
    If you want to continue to see machlokes in our midst keep supporting this great”Makom Torah “ for after all its only learning that counts. This place is totally devoid of Ahvas Yisroel which naturally is not important only learning.

  47. FYI:. They were not just suspended. If only…no one would be this outraged. Sorry you don’t like my English. You just have had a superior education called standing by when “mechanchim” keep murdering klal yisroels kids.

  48. Your not letting bochurim attend the levaya has nothing to do with Torah learning and everything to do with your inflated ego and insecurities. Tell us why, if a father allows his bochur or WANTS his child to attend, you did not allow him?
    If you revered Torah and ivdus Hashem, you’d encourage your bochurim to attend the levaya just so they could see how Yidden respect an ish emes and oheiv Hashem. Giving kavod to Torah is also part of Torah.
    If my bochur were in Yeshiva, any Yeshiva, I’d want him to be there, and you, mechanach, have no right to make his life difficult because of it.
    It’s a levaya, for crying out loud!!!

  49. There are 2 sides to this story and both did wrong and right.
    These boys needed to go for their ruchneiyus, their future avoidas hashem and limud torah! This is the Morah Derech of the Chassidishe oilam of the USA. He was a great man and it is a loss for ALL of klal yisroel!(not just chassidim)
    The hanhalah of the Yeshiva made a grave mistake by taking a stance against going to the Levaya. (they should have thought about it and discussed it with Das Torah before making such a irresponsible rash decision).
    Just as well, the boys defied authority of the Yeshiva. They were explicitly told not to do and needed to have an adult intervene on their behalf (either someone from the parent body, an employee in the yeshiva or Das Torah). They need to be penalized for their wrong doing.
    But the biggest mistake of all is to have thrown them out of yeshiva for good!!!.
    Everyone knows that even adults and even those that are learned, can make a mistake. The Yeshiva should have realized that what they said was against Das Torah (as the Bostoner Rebbe’s letter states and am sure many others agree). They had to have a meeting with the boys, apologize for making a mistake. But not forget to mention that they do need to have some sort of punishment for disobeying a yeshiva rule.
    Whoever made this decision, is not one that thinks with his heart and mind, but one who makes decisions while in a rage of anger. May hashem guide him to be a true mechanech of Bochurim in klal yisroel, so they may grow up to be respectable Talmeedai Chachumim and bnei torah amongst klal yisroel and not chas v’sholom been hurt and humiliated because of his anger.
    I hope there are enough influential people that know who this decision maker is and can sit down with him and explain his errors. (if he is unable to understand that it was dealt with to harshly then he really does not belong in chinuch at all)
    May there be piece and shalom among all of klal yisroel.

  50. The tone and response of this rebbe comes across as arrogant. Very off putting. I wouldn’t want someone with this sense of superiority to be the mechanech of my child. The rebbe said, “rebbeim know what they are doing.” That statement reflects an attitude that leads to more mistakes than ecpe ting to be held accountable for all decisions.

    Chaval for those he is tasked to teach

  51. We already understood that it was because they broke the rules, and not because they attended the levayah. But that makes the question stronger: Since when is a bachur expelled because he missed a day of Yeshivah???? One day??? It was obvioulsy a control issue. They felt that the bachurim shouldn’t go, and they lost that control, as the bachurim went anyway. And THAT’s why everyone is so upset. Not because you have rules, but because you systemically decide which rules to enforce, at will, with severely unreasonable repercussions, purely for control issues. That’s not a makom chinuch, nor a makom of Torah, because Torah is nimshal limayim which goes mimakom gavoha to a makom namuch.

    As far as rules, you are not in control. The parents are. You are their shluchim. They hired you. They ultimately make the final decision about the chinuch of their kids, even if the decision is to break your rules. Don’t like it? No one asked you to take their money.

  52. “Firstly, don’t believe everything you read. Certain things are misreported and misrepresented. So don’t take things hook, line and sinker. There’s much you don’t know. Don’t believe the so-called investigative reporting.”

    Of course. It’s possible that there was a misunderstanding. And if that’s the case, please enlighten us, and we’ll be happy to realign our thoughts. But you don’t seem to be doing that. Which is a big shtika kihoda’ah. Moreover, you’re engaging in character assassination. For example, you write, “t shouldn’t be fodder for every person at a keyboard to chime in on. ” That may or may not be true. But it’s an attack on the writers, instead of on their underlying issue. Deal with the actual issue. If it’s wrong, then like I said, please enlighten us. And if it’s right, please have the integrity to admit that the Yeshiva was wrong.

  53. How dare this yeshiva have the chutzpah to stick to their own derech? It seems that they probably have the chutzpah to daven nusach Ashkenaz too, against the derech of the Sekulener Rebbe. I bet the Rosh Yeshiva doesn’t wear a shtreimel on Shabbos either. What a disgrace. How dare they not kowtow to the Hasidic way??!!

    The yeshiva should be immediately seized and put under Chasidic control. The hanholoh should be sent to Siberia or New Square for penance, and education in the Hasidic faith.

    It is about time that those terrible Litvaks are put in their place!

    • Fool that u are.It is these heartless Torah teachers who crave chasidishe bochurim because of their genuine authenticity in Avodas Hashem something so completely lacking in these depressing negative litvishe yeshivas.
      Too bad more holy Bochurim should have the confidence to be MEKADAISH SHEM SHOMAYIM like the heleger bochurim.
      Those losers who stayed in Yeshiva will no doubt forget what they learned while these holy 50 bochurim joined with Klal Yisroel to show the kavod achron to this true tzadik and the heart of all of our people.They will never forget being “b’soch am Yisroel.”
      As for you I feel sorry for you as you probably do mitzvos because you’re supposed to while these chasidishe bochurim serve Hashem B’SIMCHA something you no doubt will never experience.

      • Simmy Weber: Have you overdosed on the neo-Chasidus Kool Aid being dispensed?

        In the real world, Litvaks are real people (some on higher levels, some lower), not all the embodiment of negative stereotypes some people are feeding you.

        • Hey Snag
          Nothing like real experience.I learned in one of the most pememinante Lakewood yeshivas. Sorry my opinion is formed by my actual experience in one of those depressing places.
          I also have had the incredible zchus to have been misabek baffle raglayhem of today’s preeminent Chasidishe Rebbe’s so my experience is not neo – Chasidish but authentic Chasidish.
          That’s why so many people have such warm feelings for the Skulener Rebbe ZTL. genuine people with genuine Ahavas Yisroel.A concept that doesn’t exist in this yeshiva only learning to the exclusion of all else.

          • Simmy – Sorry for your bad experiences. But you should know that the Litvish world is more than Lakewood. More diverse than Lakewood. Lakewood is only one extreme version of it.

            Lita was not like Lakewood! In Lita people worked for a living. Almost no one was in kollel. Kollel for the masses is a post WWII invention from outside the territory of Lita.

            You should not confuse the historic Litvishe derech in Yiddishkeit and Avodas Hashem with modern Yeshivishism. They are two separate things. Unfortunately, many confuse and conflate the two.

            For starters, if you want to get a more balanced and wholesome picture of the Litvishe derech, see this book by Rabbis Wein and Goldstein shlit”a – https://www.rabbiwein.com/The-Legacybr-Teachings-for-Life-from-the-Great-Lithuanian-RabbisbrBy-Rabbi-Berel-Wein-and-Rabbi-Warren-Goldstein-P1271.html

  54. There is too much missing and mis-information here.
    Was it a litvish vs chassidish thing?
    Did the Bochrim want to go because they had a hergesh for it, felt a chashivus for it? or was it just to get out of yeshiva for the day. I assume it was not a local BP yeshiva & just a pop outside for a while & then back in the beis medrash, but a whole trip.
    We all want to know the yeshivas actual reasoning not to go to the levaya, but the bottom line is, the yeshiva said not to go, so now they have to deal with the consequences. (Suspension also seems like an arbitrary punishment).

    In my humble opinion, the consequences for violating the yeshiva rules in this case, should be that each bochur should now have and extra seder to learn from The Skulener Rebbe and have to give over a chabura to the rest of the yeshiva.

    • So we use learning the Torah haKedoshah as a punishment. Great idea. Pardon my sarcasm. Rule number one in chinuch, don’t ever use Torah u’mitzvos as a punishment.

      • Great point. So I’ll start being michallel Shabbos. I’m sure the Aibishter will forgive & forget. It’s all love love love love. No one is EVER allowed to be criticized, EVER.

  55. If such a high percentage/ large number of boys are disobeying the Yeshiva rules then either A) your rules are not appropriate for the (type of) kids in your Yeshiva. B)You are a very ineffective Mechanech, if your message / authority is not being heard by so many of your talmidim c) both a and b

  56. Spoke today to a bochur who learned there many years. Here are a few facts:

    1- the yeshiva doesn’t allow any levayos including litcish RYeshivos. They didn’t allow them to go to Reb Elye Svei either.
    2- the RY spoke the night before and thought he assured when if fact he just said he doesn’t recommend them going. He many times speaks unclearly unintentionally and then gets upset after wards that he wasn’t listened to when in fact he wasn’t clear.
    3- these boys will be back very soon.
    4- this happens all the time in this yeshiva . Just another day. Just a bigger crown this time.
    5- the RY holds himself a Skulener chossid and actually attended himself!!
    6- this one is my opinion but author is not rebbe in yeshiva. Sounds way too course and arrogant .whether he’s right or wrong his style doesn’t sound like it’s coming from someone steeped in Torah.

  57. There is one point that has not been mentioned:
    I was also once a yeshiva bachur, and I can tell you the mentality: When talmidim defy the hanhala in such great numbers, there are a few instigators, and everyone else who goes along, encourages each other by assuring themselves that they will not suffer consequences, because “they are not going to throw out fifty bachurim”. The very fact that the number is so large is what encourages them to do the act. |n other words: “you, hanhala, are stronger than us in force, but we are stronger because of our numbers!”
    Most of the time, the talmidin are right – it is very difficult for a hanhala to deal with expelling fifty bachurim. Fifty headaches!
    This menahel, who has proven time and again that he has the strength to buck the trend (his yeshiva introduced many novel ideas which others copied), is sending a message to all his talmidim for many years: don’t think that you will not be penalized because of your numbers!
    If you know how chasidishe bachurim in Litvishe yeshivos act towards the hanhala, it is always necessary to ensure that they know who’s the boss!

  58. Yes, the yeshiva made a rule and they broke it. (What a stupid lomdos!, anyone watch Rabbi Shteirman video when he screams Gaiveh Gaiveh… In the middle of the argument you will see Rabbi Shteirman say, “What, they shouldn’t get married?” Rabbi Shteirman made to the point to get to the root of the issue. The root of the issue is, they went to the Levaya, and the Yeshiva was aginst Bochrim going to the Levaya during the zman. so they got kicked out, for going to the Levaya during the zman!!!

  59. Look what all this has done? Every Joe shmo all of a sudden has an opinion on running a Yeshiva. Should’ve done this, should’ve done that, the Rabbi’s are wrong, Chutzpa etc etc etc etc.
    1st of all none of all this should be public information. You people are doing more harm to the Bochurim by the way your denouncing the Hanhola and the Rebbeim and Roshei Yeshiva than actually helping these kids. If they see all of these opinions- you think they will ever learn how to respect Rabbonim?? It’s ridiculous. If this Yeshiva is not for your son, DON’T send him there. That’s right. But STOP question their authority in PUBLIC! Obviously the people opposed to the Yeshiva all know better about how to run a Mosad- and they are all perfect in their lives in every way possible- doing EVERYTHING according to Daas Torah 100% and following every rule. Yeh ok..STOP!
    EVEN if the Yeshiva was 100% wrong, this is not a public debate! None of this should be a debatable issue PUBLICLY.
    Not discussing this publicly does not take away the greatness of the Skulener Rebbe ZTVK’L. He was a Giant!
    Yeshiva’s make their own decisions. There are so many factors to decisions in a Yeshiva. Every Yeshiva runs differently. Learn to speak good about Yeshiva’s and watch our kids actually look up bigger people. But if we trash them publicly- you expect then to have respect??
    May we be Zoche to see the truth, and all be able to get along.

  60. To” Do the right thing”,sometimes Yeshivas/Girl Schools make mistakes and kids must know that a mistake was made.DO NOT FORGET ,THE CAUSED THE SECOND BEIS MIKDASH WAS DESTROYED ,WAS THAT ALL THE RABBIS DID NOT STAND UP TO THE RICH MAN WHO SHAMED ONE PERSON.

  61. Just a short story. at a point in time, the refurbished the Vilna Goans Kever, and askonim wanted to get all robaonim around the world to come to Vilna to take part in an asifas chizuk and the hakomas matzaiva. They came to Rav Shach as well, his reply “I lived in Vilna for many years and was never there, so now you want me to go from Bnei Braq?”

    • Vilna: Thanks for the interesting story.

      For the record, I don’t believe Rav Schach z”l was in Vilna for “many years”. If he was there, I think it was for a relatively short time, around the beginning of WWII.

      Nevertheless, the story might be basically correct. I enjoyed it. and thank you for sharing it.

  62. My son is one of the 70 boys that got sent home. The Rosh Yeshiva is a 100000% right what he did!!!!! boys have to get permission form the Hanhalle first. if something would have C’V happened to the boys. who would I blame???????????
    Keep you smart comments to your self.

  63. I was not going to comment, as I didn’t want to increase a controversy merely to express an opinion, but this letter allegedly from a teacher in the school is worrisome. I continue to judge the yeshiva favorably, it has a prestigious legacy, and no one without all the facts should judge them. But I can comment on this anonymous rebbe’s letter without risk of loshon hora. I found objectionable content in some of the implications that this anonymous rebbe wrote. I would encourage the author to better explain himself, not the administration, if he issues a follow up letter.

    The question is, or should be, is this a rebellion of the kids against their rabbeim, albeit for a lofty goal, or was it actually from a mistaken evaluation by the children of which was the bigger mitsvah?

    If a rebellion, so then this rebbe’s reply makes sense to some degree. You can’t teach people in active rebellion. If a rebellion, for the sake of preserving kavod to Torah, it is necessary to discipline, but probably not as severe as was done, according to this rabbi’s philosophy, but only those with all the facts can conclusively judge that.

    I can suggest that a punishment should at least appear to fit the crime. The appearance of draconian measures is not good for a yeshiva to engage in. HaShem’s honor has to be the main factor in the decision making process, more so than the honor of the rabbeim. The ultimate spiritual welfare of the children as well. Even a Rav who forgives his honor, his dishonor can be forgiven. (Kiddushin 32) But we can’t risk the kavod of HaKadosh Baruch Hu and the well-being of His flock. There is no room to maneuver in that.

    If this was a mistake by the kids for altruistic reasons, then to them, this was all a doubt between this mitsvah of listening to the school policy up against the mitsvah of honoring the great rav who passed on, and if so, they should not lose a single day of Torah. Make them write essays on the honor due to chachamim instead.

    Bottom line, increasing their bitul from Torah is not the answer, unless this was an outright rebellion from which there is little hope of their teshuvah.

    And if they want to do such a mitsvah so strongly, maybe take them on a field trip or take the time to teach the importance of not going, or else this is the likely result if rabbeim demand rules be followed and defend their own honor rather than address the emotions of human teens and then better he should risk suspension, and not steal Torah from them. The yeshiva theoretically would have to bear part of the responsibility of not explaining this better to them, or be willing to explain to Shamayim and the parents why they feel otherwise, if they do.

    But this was not the administration speaking in this letter. Obviously. So I advise that we should all try to let this matter drop as soon as possible.

    But perhaps it is for the best that this letter was written. It is a wake up call, that HaShem’s honor and deployment of mercy for children not be ignored by any teacher.

  64. I would like to add something that is missing in this whole discussion. I personally know this Rosh Hayeshiva His late father Z’l and Lhblch’t the Rosh Hayeshiva were extremely close to the previous Skulener Rebbe Ztz’l and to this one and the Rosh Hayeshiva met the this Rebbe many times he went to see the Rebbe very often.(the Rebbe had a special connection to The R’H late father-in-law Ztz’l), so who ever says that this Rosh Hayeshiva is against Chassidim does not know what they are talking about. He the R’H has been going to Rebbes since he was a child, he was in Satmar, Square, Ger & Vishnitz just to name a few . If the yeshiva made a decision it is not our business to question it. I recall a story that happened many years ago a famous Rosh Hayeshiva who was respected by everyone and his talmidim wanted to go to the airport to welcome a big Rebbe from the biggest a tzadik a poel yeshoois (this Rosh Hayeshiva was closely connected to him) who had a large following and he did not allow them to go.A short time later an Odom Godol came to the same city and the Rosh Hayeshiva he took a large number of talmidim to welcome him when he arrived. This was before the era of the Internet but people (some talmidim themselves) said this Rosh Hayeshiva does not like Chasidim. Somebody who was very close to him asked him about it and this is what he told him, “The Rebbe has a large following there will no be a shortage of people welcoming him – which was true a large crowd welcomed him, this Odom Godol if we do not go there will be nobody there The Rosh Hayeshiva added he would be scared of the Hakpodah from the torah of not giving kovod to the Torah” , not everything we hear or see do we understand. in this yeshiva hasmodo is paramount and I am sure the holy Skulener Rebbe Ztz’l Zy’a would agree the zechus of learning torah is more important than attending his levayah. If the yeshiva would have been in Boro Park or Monsey they certainly would have been allowed to go but travelling from Lakewood would have been close to a whole day. If this Rosh Hayeshiva would have had the slightest doubt that there will be a small crowd he for sure would have encouraged his talmidim to go

  65. Chazak chazak!!! Don’t let us balei batim get involved in the yeshiva chinuch just like we don’t get involved in contracting etc we have to be makir mekomo

  66. WHY DID YOU NOT GO????
    Most of you likely have a regular day job like I do, and THOUSANDS of us were unfortunately unable to make it to the Levaya of this Tzadik zt”l. What right did we have not to go?

  67. Please be Me Ayaen in the 5th Chelek of Shulchan Aruch….
    Called Common sense !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Look at the bottom of the page…. Yes, the small print… that have NO chakiros… just plain simple common sense !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  68. MISTAKE: This whole article is a NON starter ,i verified with motible people from the yeshiva, the Yeshiva did NOT say not to go, they only said the night before you not MCHUAV to go, so im not sure what this is about.. עד כאן….

    Is response to the complain of mixing in, i beleive this is long overdue with this particular Yeshiva, they have long history of kicking out buchrim for stupit reasons , and personally know of a few myself, they simply runed buchrim…. i beleive thats why it was published, this was a מכה בפטיש, and this behavior must stop!

    • Not a single parent was ever FORCED to send their child to that particular Yeshiva, or any other, for that matter. There are hundreds of choices where to send your child for Mesivta. Don’t give us your crocodile tears now. You darn well knew the history before you enrolled your child there. You knew what you were getting into. It is YOUR fault for all the “emotional” pain and “discomfort” he experienced. It is YOUR fault that your little tzatzkila had his poor little “feelings” hurt. What a baby.

  69. Bravo Matzav!
    I guess it’s just about what sells at the end of the day just like someone said on one of your shmooze column.
    There is nothing in this piece that promotes ahavat yisrael or ahdut, quite the opposite unfortunately.
    This story did not need to be publicized and the affected partied could have dealt with it privately between themselves or with daat Thora or even in beth din. Exposing it up for debate amongst all of us won’t do anyone any good!
    My brothers and sisters let’s remember that wtv we may think most of us ignore all the facts and probably don’t have the daat Thora to pasken on the matter so let’s not fall in the traps of the yestser hara “leshem shamoyim”; instead let’s excerce our power to be dan lekaf zchut both sides and to watch not to speak lashon hara or be motsi shem ra c”v.
    It is NOT about who is right or wrong in this debate now but about making the right or wrong choice in how we react to it. Let’s use our free choice correctly.

  70. I remember years ago when a lavaya was held in the Telshe Gym for a R’ Meir z”l of Mir. The lavaya was held during Bein Hasedorim. R’ Meir z”l received the well deserved honor of having his lavaya in the Yeshiva with the Roshei HaYeshiva being Maspid him. The Rosh HaYeshiva, Rav Gifter zt”l at the end said, I know many of you want to attend the kevurah of R’ Meir z”l, but, we have a good Chevra to attend to the kevura and he would be better served if you were in the Bais Midrash learning.

    My late father, z”l lived in Beragsaz, Hungary before the war. When the Minchas Eluzar, zy”a was nifter, he asked his Rebbe if he could attend the lavaya. He was told that if he visited him b’chaim, he could go. Needles to say, he did not attend.

    My comment if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you don’t like the rule, find another institution.

  71. When Rav Aharon Kotler was a bachur in Slabodka, the Alter did not approve of bachurim leaving the Yeshiva to attend the shiurim of Rav Boruch Ber in his Yeshiva. Nevertheless, young Aharon Kotler and Yaakov Kamenetzky did attend and they were not penalized. The Alter was angry that Yaakov Kamenetzky spent time studying Hebrew grammar, but he was not penalized for doing so.

    There are enough negative things that Bachurim could do that should result in suspension. Like smoking, for instance. Do we have to penalize them in this era for doing a mitzvah?

  72. I guess my only comment is, that at this point when the Rosh Hayeshiva (who by the way I know very well) did what he did and rightly or wrongly threw out 50 chosheve Bnei Torah, why would he not let these bochurim back into the yeshiva. There is nothing to be gained at this point. I think the bochurim regret their actions on some level. All this negativity is not helping this yeshiva. I’ve given money to this yeshiva on a number of occasions and I’m not happy by the actions the RY has taken. This letter to the Editor shows that the RY is digging in and not being flexible on this matter, it certainly doesn’t appear that way.

  73. Rav Shmuel Berenbaum zl had a totally different approach There was a yarzeit shiur by Rav JB Solovechik zl A group of bochrim went without permission
    The next day Rav Shmuel zl called us over we were petrified as of course we didn’t have permission. The Rosh yeshiva smiled . He said I understand he is a great gaon please say over the shiur. Going around the circle no one could say a intelligent word. The rosh yeshiva smiles….. if you didn’t understand why did you waste your time. That was a gadol who understood bochrim and was very successfull in producing bnai vtorah dedicated their entire lives to learning
    Sadly lacking in many mechanhim

  74. “Finally, the decision of a yeshiva is its alone. It shouldn’t be fodder for every person at a keyboard to chime in on. You don’t like a yeshiva’s rules? Don’t send your kid there. ”

    Although I certainly agree that בעלי בתים should not have a say on chinuch haYeshiva. However, this very attitude of a Yeshiva can do whatever they feel like is a
    חורבן נורא עד מאד!
    Just because you have some authority does not give you any rights על פי תורה to go out and make final decisions that can have a major effect on Bachorums lives. This goes to any Yeshiva. The very fact that you restored to such an act indicates that you have no real
    שייכות לחינוך אמיתי
    I agree that they need to be put into place BUT is that the ONLY way you can come up with to discipline them?!!
    Asides that the punishment does not fit the crime, but again that is precisely the issue, the only way of you “controlling” or having any השפעה on a talmid is showing him the door, then something is really wrong with the very core of your chinuch system,
    whether these talmidim are right or wrong is by far the issue…

    Historically speaking, yeshivos had far worse scenarios wherein talmidim decided to make their own decisions and no one ever thought of the above.
    Some in Volozhin with the Netziv and some in Mir with Rav Yechtlatzkil, recently Ponovizh etc..

  75. I had three children attend this yeshiva, the r”y sat with us before he accepted them 7 told us very clearly, he has a strict regimen, he has long hours he has shabbas seder etc… if you think its too strict for your son, please please please, dont send him here !

    He is a loving caring brilliant r”y & i would go to him with a kvittel anytime.

    he truly cares about hashem & the right thing for the buchuirim- not a popularity contest

  76. I have never written a comment on any blog site since I don’t think that it’s appropriate. However after seeing this whole discussion, it confirmed a lot more than that. Blogs are ruining klal Yisrael and separating us like never before. I believe that having a discussion like this in the open is a terrible chillel Hashem and disgrace to Torah and what it stands for. Not everything that comes to your mind is supposed to be written and definitely not in an open platform as this. Let Chinuch questions and discussions stay with the Chinuch world to decide what’s right and wrong. Let’s pick up the former glory of klal Yisrael so we could all reunite together.

    • We, the parents are the ones that are in charge of the chinuch of our children. Yeshivas are here to serve the community and not the opposite. When a yeshiva sources bochurim from Lakewood, and then expells them for no justified reason, then the lakewood community has a right to know.
      This yeshiva expels a tremendous amount of bochurim every zman, more so than the remainder of all Lakewood mesuvtas combined. They varf zich mit yidish blit!

      • Wrong. It’s parents like you who send their children to specific Yeshivos for one reason and one reason only. You’re ready? S H I D D U C H I M! It’s all about shidduchim. You couldn’t care less if they stayed in the Bais Medrash, played cards, get drunk Friday nights, or run around to every Rebbeleh. Just get me that shidduch.

        • Indeed. want to know the reason how come
          So their children can get married & be entitled to Create new institutions with the
          glibly pathetic sick attitudes as the one who wrote the letter

          And the cycle continues on…

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