National Security Minister and Otzma Yehudit chairman Itamar Ben Gvir sharply attacked the leaders of the chareidi parties in a wide-ranging interview with Kikar HaShabbat, accusing Aryeh Deri and Moshe Gafni of exploiting allegations of police violence against chareidi protesters for political gain.
Ben Gvir argued that the criticism is particularly hypocritical because Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara is seeking his removal in part over discussions he initiated concerning alleged discrimination and police mistreatment of chareidim.
The minister also laid out his position on the contentious issue of chareidi military service, saying that those who are genuinely learning Torah should remain in yeshiva, while those who are not learning should be encouraged to enlist — “with an embrace and not through coercion.”
Ben Gvir openly appealed to chareidi voters who are disappointed with their traditional parties to support Otzma Yehudit, while stressing that he is not seeking to undermine the established chareidi parties. He also said he has no plans to add several newly formed small chareidi factions to his electoral slate.
During the interview with Kikar HaShabbat’s Yishai Cohen, Ben Gvir also discussed the discovery of missing mother and daughter Mali and Liel Yahalomi in Argentina, the security situation in Lebanon, the Likud primaries, reports of efforts to oust Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, his decision to run separately from Bezalel Smotrich, and the controversy surrounding Israel Prison Service Commissioner Kobi Yaakobi.
The Yahalomi Case
Ben Gvir began by addressing the discovery of Mali and Liel Yahalomi in Argentina after an extensive search.
“First of all, wonderful work by the police, truly wonderful work by the police,” Ben Gvir said. “I spoke with the police commissioner on Thursday. He told me: ‘The direction is that this is not terrorism, and the direction is that this is not criminal.’ And still, we both agreed: Heaven forbid that the police take their foot off the gas, because who knows what could later emerge. And therefore they worked hard.”
Cohen noted that considerable uncertainty remains surrounding the case and that police officials themselves have indicated that information may still be concealed.
“I don’t know whether they are hiding things or not hiding things,” Ben Gvir responded. “What I can tell you is: Baruch Hashem, praise to the Creator of the world — it was not criminal, it was not nationalistically motivated, and that is the most important thing. That is the most important thing.”
Cohen then raised calls that emerged after Shabbos for the mother and daughter to potentially be charged for the enormous cost of the search operation.
“Since Motzoei Shabbos, quite a few people have been writing: Perhaps they should be required to pay the expenses of the police, of the state? After all, this incident cost the state millions. They knew that the entire world was searching for them, and they still played with the police, played with the entire country, which was turning itself upside down to locate them. Perhaps they should pay the expenses?”
“I don’t know whether I accept your description,” Ben Gvir replied. “But you know what? I’m proud that we are a country where we are not like New York or all sorts of places where people are left to die. If it turns out that they did this deliberately and maliciously and did something… I’m completely with you. But I’m proud to be in a country where we take care of our people. We take care of our citizens even when they are very, very far from here. You know, in New York, a person can die in the street and nobody will look at him.”
“We Should Bomb Beirut”
Turning to security, Cohen asked Ben Gvir whether Israel had become too restrained along its northern and southern fronts.
“You look at the northern border, the southern border, Gaza, Lebanon. It’s true that there are still targeted killings and there are attacks here and there, but it isn’t what it was two or three months ago.”
“You’re exactly right, exactly right,” Ben Gvir responded. “We can… and I hear warnings from the prime minister and from the chief of staff that there is a real danger to the lives of the soldiers — they shoot, they kill. It’s not enough.”
“I think the prime minister is wrong about this — and it has been reported, I’ve told him this more than once or twice,” Ben Gvir continued. “My red line is harming soldiers. And of course, I daven for their recovery. I have a son who is now going in and out, in and out of Lebanon with a reconnaissance unit, and I’m telling you: he and his friends deserve for us to bomb Beirut, for us to crush them.”
Ben Gvir Intervenes in the Likud Primaries
Cohen then turned to the Likud primaries, noting the unusual spectacle of a minister who leads a separate political party publicly weighing in on another party’s internal election.
“It was always like this,” Ben Gvir responded. “Why? I want the Likud list to be a right-wing list. I want to have partners on the Likud list. I’m not embarrassed about it. I published a list. I published a list of names — I want them to be the ones who are elected.”
“I’m calling on the Likud public — and by the way, when I come to Likud weddings, to Likud events, you have to see what happens, what love! I tell them: These are people who I think you should vote for. It’s the most legitimate thing in the world.”
Cohen noted that Ben Gvir had revealed earlier on 103FM that eight Likud MKs and ministers had approached him in recent days and asked him to reserve spots for them on the Otzma Yehudit slate.
“Yes,” Ben Gvir confirmed. “Baruch Hashem, they see that Otzma Yehudit is growing. Yishai, Likud is not a branch of Ben Gvir. Everything is fine. Likud is the ruling party, and with Hashem’s help, it will continue to be the ruling party. I have no aspiration in the coming election to replace the ruling party. I do have an aspiration in the coming election: first, to be as strong as possible, and truly to bring in as many good people as possible.”
“And yes, it’s no secret that people in Likud see Otzma growing and growing,” he continued. “A lot of people in Likud are also jealous of what we’re doing. Many times they’ve said to me: ‘Wow, you do this, and you do this here, and you do that there and you do this,’ and they want to be part of the success.”
Asked what those eight lawmakers were telling him privately, and whether they feared failing to secure realistic positions on the next Likud slate, Ben Gvir said that was not necessarily their only concern.
“I don’t know whether it’s only the fear of not getting a spot on the list,” he said. “By the way, you know, they could also reach places 20, 25, 30, which is… But it’s also about going to a brand that, Baruch Hashem, is very successful, praise to the Creator of the world.”
“As of now, the polls look good for us. My internal polls look even better. I’m not getting confused. I work more and more and more and more and more. I want more. I think ultimately they should compete in Likud. This contest is important. I believe they will succeed, and I wish them success.”
Attempts to Oust Netanyahu
Cohen then asked about reports that Likud figures had explored replacing Netanyahu after the October 7 massacre, potentially with Yuli Edelstein or Nir Barkat.
Ben Gvir said he personally encountered such efforts during a later period when he left the government.
“I actually remember from the period when I resigned from the government, and then figures in Likud came to me — I won’t give names, I won’t give names — and they came and said to me, ‘There’s an opportunity now, there’s an opportunity now! Let’s send Netanyahu home and establish a right-wing government, establish a right-wing government.’”
“First of all, I didn’t accept it,” Ben Gvir said. “Not only did I not accept it, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu during one of our conversations and told him: ‘I can tell you, I wish they loved you in Likud the way I love and appreciate you.’”
“He said to me: ‘You love and appreciate me, but there are all sorts of other people in Likud who love me and appreciate me.’ I told him: ‘Prime Minister, not enough, not enough.’”
Why Ben Gvir Wants to Run Separately From Smotrich
With approximately two and a half months remaining until the election, Cohen asked whether Otzma Yehudit would run independently or reunite with Bezalel Smotrich.
“I think it’s right that we run as two separate heads,” Ben Gvir said. “I conducted a survey of thousands, an in-depth survey. And it turned out that if Bezalel joins me, there are people in the chareidi community who won’t vote; if Bezalel joins me, there are people in the periphery who won’t vote. By the way, Bezalel also has a constituency that is debating between him and Bennett and prefers that he run alone.”
Cohen raised the concern that Smotrich could fail to cross the electoral threshold, costing the right-wing bloc four seats.
“I actually don’t see that concern as of today,” Ben Gvir responded. “I see that with his full strength, he is stable, he crosses the threshold. I would hope and expect Feiglin and Winter to join him. But I say explicitly: Otzma Yehudit needs to run as one separate list.”
An Appeal to Disappointed Chareidi Voters
Cohen asked whether Ben Gvir might instead join forces with smaller chareidi parties, including Rabbi Abergel’s Achi party and a party calling itself “The Chareidi Public,” led by Leitner of Beit Shemesh.
“Yishai, right now — and not only right now, I see it all the time — for four years Otzma Yehudit has run alone, and the results are good, the results are beautiful,” Ben Gvir said. “I think you don’t replace a winning horse.”
“I respect everyone, I truly respect everyone, but ultimately Otzma Yehudit is a brand. Otzma Yehudit is something that appeals to all of Klal Yisroel. People feel how much I care.”
He stressed, however, that he was not attempting to deliberately weaken the established chareidi parties.
“I certainly don’t want to stick a finger in the eye of the chareidi parties — let that be clear!” Ben Gvir said. “But I do say explicitly: Anyone who is not voting for the chareidi parties should vote for me.”
“There is a certain disappointment today in various parts of the chareidi community. If they aren’t going to vote for chareidi parties, let them come to me. They shouldn’t go somewhere where their votes will be wasted.”
“And on the other hand, someone who votes for the chareidi parties should vote for the chareidi parties. Sometimes there are disagreements, with Aryeh too, certainly with Gafni, and with various others. But ultimately, whoever votes for the chareidi parties should vote for them; whoever doesn’t should come to Otzma Yehudit.”
Ben Gvir Fires Back at Deri and Gafni
Cohen confronted Ben Gvir with the fierce criticism he has faced in recent months from the leaders of the chareidi parties over alleged police violence against chareidi demonstrators.
“They say that you don’t intervene regarding police violence against chareidi protesters,” Cohen said. “Deri, Gafni, Goldknopf, Porush — all of them have issued very harsh statements against your conduct as national security minister.”
“You can attribute many things to the names you mentioned, but they’re not stupid,” Ben Gvir responded. “And they read exactly what the attorney general wrote when she said she wants to remove me. For what? Because I initiated discussions in my ministry about why chareidim are being beaten, why they are being discriminated against, and why the chareidi community is being harmed.”
“So I don’t think Aryeh Deri doesn’t know this — he knows it very well!” Ben Gvir said. “He wants to make a political play out of it.”
“And you know what? It angers me that he is making a political play against someone whom he told me — he told me this more than once or twice — ‘You always, always, always helped, and you were always, always, always there when we needed you.’”
“So how do you go and make a political play out of this?” Ben Gvir continued. “What, for the sake of another few thousand votes? Both Aryeh and Gafni know that the attorney general wants to fire me, among other things, because of this very issue. How are you not ashamed to talk?”
Ben Gvir Defends Prison Service Commissioner Kobi Yaakobi
The interview then turned to Israel Prison Service Commissioner Kobi Yaakobi, who has been summoned to a hearing ahead of a possible indictment.
“Of course, certainly! Certainly!” Ben Gvir exclaimed. “Because they’re persecuting him! What are they persecuting him for? Because he is implementing Ben Gvir’s policies!”
“I’m telling you, Yishai: If I’m not there, if Otzma Yehudit isn’t in this ministry, we’re going back to summer camps in the prisons.”
Asked whether he would call on Yaakobi to remain in his position, Ben Gvir answered emphatically.
“Of course! What kind of question is that? A person is presumed innocent until his guilt is proven. There is a presumption of innocence. When he is convicted by the Supreme Court by a panel of three judges, then we can consider what to do with him.”
“But in this situation, in a situation where they are persecuting him… I know why they’re persecuting him, I know why she is persecuting him. If he is convicted in the Supreme Court, that’s a different story. But if he isn’t convicted, and there’s only an indictment? What, are there not enough examples of indictments that were filed in order to persecute someone?”
“I told him my position several times, and I very much hope that he accepts it and that my position is heard: As long as there is no final conviction against you — final — again, I’m not arguing with a court. If there is a final conviction, that is a different event. If the Supreme Court determines, through a panel of judges, that this is the situation, that is something else. But as long as that does not happen, Kobi is innocent.”
“Whoever Learns Torah Should Learn Torah”
The interview concluded with the explosive issue of the draft law and the legal status of yeshiva bochurim.
“I’m exactly where I’ve been all these years,” Ben Gvir said. “I think serving in the army is a mitzvah. My son is now in a reconnaissance unit. Someone who isn’t learning should enlist.”
“But even them — not by force, not through populism, and not like those who tried to score political points at the expense of the chareidi community and to smear them and harm them and use violence. I’m absolutely not there.”
“With an embrace!” he continued. “Another embrace, and another embrace, and it works. I want to bring chareidim into the IDF, but I want chareidim who aren’t learning. Someone who isn’t learning…”
Cohen interrupted to clarify: “Meaning, you accept that someone who is learning — learns?”
“Yes!” Ben Gvir replied. “What the rabbanim say: Whoever learns Torah should learn Torah. Unfortunately, there are many who don’t learn Torah. Those are the people I want first. There are very many of them — let them come, I’ll embrace them.”
“And I succeeded this way!” Ben Gvir added. “You know, Lieberman talks about recruitment, Bennett talks about recruitment — they didn’t recruit a single chareidi! Not one chareidi did they recruit.”
“And I, through an embrace and by making sure that the chareidi Border Police unit would be mehadrin min hamehadrin in every respect… What did the fighters there tell me? ‘We never learned as much Torah before as we learn there.’”
{Matzav.com}
